Blackpool Trams News

[158756]

There is no live tracking.

Presumably because their bus tracking is actually tracking the ticket machine and the trams don't have one.

It does seem like something Blackpool should have though - it's not so important on tram systems which have live departure boards and a very frequent service, but Blackpool has neither of those.

 

[Bovverboy]

There is no live tracking.

Presumably because their bus tracking is actually tracking the ticket machine and the trams don't have one.

If you can track a ticket machine, you can track a tram.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Presumably because their bus tracking is actually tracking the ticket machine and the trams don't have one.

Trams should be part of the same legislation as busses in terms of the tracking and open data.
Tram routes and timetables already appear on bustimes.org from that data but no tracking.

If you can track a ticket machine, you can track a tram.

Blackpool Transport probably can track them, but don't release the data.

It does seem like something Blackpool should have though - it's not so important on tram systems which have live departure boards and a very frequent service, but Blackpool has neither of those.

Any with live departure boards effectively have good enough live tracking, if Blackpool had live departure boards everyone would probably just live with it.

 

[AngelicUpstart]

Blackpool Transport can and do track the trams themselves, this is a different system to the live tracking the app uses which as others have said is based on ticket machines. They paid to have an interface developed, but it didn't work reliably.

Live departure displays on tram stops were specified as part of the rebuild. The environmental requirements of such a device, it really is amazing the damage sea water can cause to electronics, was such that nobody bid for the contract.
I believe that it's possibly back on the cards again but don't hold your breath. Some stops are on their third shelters and I believe some are possibly being replaced this winter due to corrision.

 

[Blackpool boy]

I'm aware of that parking area.

I'm thinking up Talbot road to Garstang and Poulton Le Fylde not far from Blackpool college, there's a big open field on either side of Garstang Road West for parking, this would make it an interurban tramway.

This requires money and political will

This road is rammed enough with traffic and is perfectly served by lots of buses which serve lots of other areas of employment within Blackpool so isnt a viable solution imo

Like a tram train, could work will it run from the end of Blackpool North tram track ?

Theres no room for it now unless you want to flatten the petrol station to try and make it work.

If you want to do a P&R style station it has to be where the larger amounts of people will arrive - i.e the end of the M55 so the cars dont come into town however that ship has now sailed with them building the big car park in old central station.

Especially since the M65 ends on the opposite side of Preston

oopsy

 

[Busaholic]

Speaking as someone from afar who hasn't been to Blackpool for decades, but has read very widely about the tramway and seen many a video, even the boring ones, it really does go now to show why we haven't been able to run trams in this country since the age of mass car ownership, with only two or three honourable exceptions including one that started very badly. I don't think the tiny Blackpool North 'extension' (more like deviation in my book) should ever have gone ahead, as the potential problems kept showing up the more the idea gained favour and its adherents were akin to the HS2 fanatics who were determined it go ahead fully regardless of cost or problems, both practical or political. There was never going to be a truly separate line (other countries would have extended well beyond North Station) and only aimed in one direction when it reached the Promenade. Most importantly of all they would never sacrifice the goose that lays the golden egg, the Starr Gate to Fleetwood promenade service, without which Blackpool Trams is nothing.

 

[davehsug]

If you can track a ticket machine, you can track a tram.

You used to be able to track them on the app. You can still track buses, but the trams no longer appear, maybe it disappeared with the free wifi on trams, which also doesn't seem to work anymore.

Speaking as someone from afar who hasn't been to Blackpool for decades, but has read very widely about the tramway and seen many a video, even the boring ones, it really does go now to show why we haven't been able to run trams in this country since the age of mass car ownership, with only two or three honourable exceptions including one that started very badly. I don't think the tiny Blackpool North 'extension' (more like deviation in my book) should ever have gone ahead, as the potential problems kept showing up the more the idea gained favour and its adherents were akin to the HS2 fanatics who were determined it go ahead fully regardless of cost or problems, both practical or political. There was never going to be a truly separate line (other countries would have extended well beyond North Station) and only aimed in one direction when it reached the Promenade. Most importantly of all they would never sacrifice the goose that lays the golden egg, the Starr Gate to Fleetwood promenade service, without which Blackpool Trams is nothing.

It is a worthwhile extension, indeed I've found it useful this week being able to travel easily from my hotel to and from the station with a heavy case. Personally I think it would have made sense to couple it with relaying the line from North Station to Gynn Square via Dickson Road, thereby enabling a much more sensible route from Starr gate to Fleetwood, without having to split the service and adding little time to the overall journey. Maybe having the tram rejoin the Promenade at Pleasant Street would have involved a much shorter new stretch being needed. and continued to service all of the current stops.

 

[Harvey B]

If you can track a ticket machine, you can track a tram.

Does anyone know how Realtime tracking works for other Tram Systems (I.e Manchester, Sheffield and Edinburgh) and for the main UK Rail Network?

Is it not easy to implement a similar system at Blackpool?

 

[cool110]

Tracking on the mainline is based on data from the signalling system, so there are coverage gaps where very long blocks exists such as on single lines. That approach would have the same issue in Blackpool with a shortage of signalled junctions along the prom.

 

[LLivery]

I have been riding the trams all day, and I have made a few observations.

Firstly, the 30-minute frequency on each service is not ideal, to say the least. An urban tram system should operate on a turn-up-and-go basis, especially when many people are hopping on and off for short trips and using it as a walking accelerator.

Secondly, I am aware of staffing shortages and that Blackpool Transport is actively recruiting more people. However, I note that the system has a very high staffing requirement, with three members of staff per tram. I wonder whether switching to a buy-before-you-board system with penalty fares in place would be more efficient and lower running costs.

Thirdly, I note that the tramway is duplicated by the 1 and 1A bus routes. This seems wasteful, and I wonder if anyone has considered curtailing the bus routes so that they feed into the tramway rather than compete with it, or, on the other hand, shortening the hours of tramway service during weekdays when passenger numbers are low and getting everyone to use the bus instead.

Fourthly, the tramway has many slow sections, including sections outside areas of high pedestrian activity where the speed must not exceed 10 km/h.

Fifthly, it seems that the design of the extension is shortsighted as it precludes further extension of the tramway beyond North Station by placing the Holiday Inn hotel in front of the tram tracks.

Despite all the shortcomings, I wish Blackpool Transport all the best and for the extension to turn out to be a success.

Why does it need *three* members of staff per tram? Driver, conductor and?

It does seem like an obvious way to reduce costs per tram and use that money for more staffing more frequent trams.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Why does it need *three* members of staff per tram? Driver, conductor and?

It does seem like an obvious way to reduce costs per tram and use that money for more staffing more frequent trams.

Driver and 2x conductor. Presumably they have worked out that maximises the revenue v 1x conductor and v 0 conductor. It doesn’t take many missed fares to pay the wages of a 2nd conductor. Not sure if they are present all day - I doubt they are needed on the first runs.

The 1 and 1A have been reduced to the minimum hourly end to end with 30m Cleveleys to Town Centre v the higher frequency of other years. They are largely there to provide a service for visiting concessionary pass holders who cannot use their passes on the trams.

 

[Tramfan]

When it first reopened with the flexities, I'm sure they tried just 1 conductor at all times. Even with 2, the trams get so busy and stop so frequently that they still probably lose a fortune in missed fares on the busier days.

Certainly yesterday (first Saturday with the new extension) the T1s were arriving at North Pier from the North absolutely crush loaded for a lot of the day, and that was with the T3s carrying full and standing loads to Talbot Square - so loadings were still spread.

Was positive to see lots of the T2s coming from North Station with healthy loadings, one particular journey appeared to arrive with most seats taken, though it could have been people that had changed from a T3 at the terminus I guess

Driver and 2x conductor. Presumably they have worked out that maximises the revenue v 1x conductor and v 0 conductor. It doesn’t take many missed fares to pay the wages of a 2nd conductor. Not sure if they are present all day - I doubt they are needed on the first runs.

The 1 and 1A have been reduced to the minimum hourly end to end with 30m Cleveleys to Town Centre v the higher frequency of other years. They are largely there to provide a service for visiting concessionary pass holders who cannot use their passes on the trams.

Yeah I think the earlier ones probably still just have the 1, and I think one year they tried roaming conductors that would travel with the trams just in the busiest areas (between Bispham and pleasure beach/Starr Gate)

 

[LLivery]

Driver and 2x conductor. Presumably they have worked out that maximises the revenue v 1x conductor and v 0 conductor. It doesn’t take many missed fares to pay the wages of a 2nd conductor. Not sure if they are present all day - I doubt they are needed on the first runs.

The 1 and 1A have been reduced to the minimum hourly end to end with 30m Cleveleys to Town Centre v the higher frequency of other years. They are largely there to provide a service for visiting concessionary pass holders who cannot use their passes on the trams.

I see. Fare evasion being bad enough that with one conductor onboard, they need a second, is surprising. Blackpool is ranked 9th worst for social mobility in England (2016), but that's quite something. It does tells me the place needs more investment and a better service, to help. You could call it... 'levelling up'...

Regardless the extension is certainly a good thing, I just hope more funding for better operations does appear in the next parl. It doesn't need to be eye watering sums for a reasonably easy win here

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Driver and 2x conductor. Presumably they have worked out that maximises the revenue v 1x conductor and v 0 conductor. It doesn’t take many missed fares to pay the wages of a 2nd conductor. Not sure if they are present all day - I doubt they are needed on the first runs.

I'm pretty sure I didn't see 2 conductors on my tram last time I travelled, but it wasn't during peak times.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Personally I think it would have made sense to couple it with relaying the line from North Station to Gynn Square via Dickson Road, thereby enabling a much more sensible route from Starr gate to Fleetwood, without having to split the service and adding little time to the overall journey.

This would've been a great addition to the network at the same time

 

[geoffk]

I see. Fare evasion being bad enough that with one conductor onboard, they need a second, is surprising.

Has Blackpool not considered ticket machines like Metrolink and Nottingham? They would need an enforcement team as well. I read that Nottingham changed from conductors to TVMs as the former were getting robbed. Meanwhile Midland Metro, as it was called then, went the other way, from TVMs to conductors, and Sheffield has always used conductors.

 

[Tramfan]

I see. Fare evasion being bad enough that with one conductor onboard, they need a second, is surprising. Blackpool is ranked 9th worst for social mobility in England (2016), but that's quite something. It does tells me the place needs more investment and a better service, to help. You could call it... 'levelling up'...

Regardless the extension is certainly a good thing, I just hope more funding for better operations does appear in the next parl. It doesn't need to be eye watering sums for a reasonably easy win here

Often all it takes is a couple of people boarding who don't know what ticket they want, or where they're going, and by the time they've been sold a ticket, the tram has passed another 3 or 4 stops. That can mean a lot of people boarding that the conductors just can't get round to before the tram reaches the Central prom, especially mid morning when people are leaving their hotels all at the same time.

In addition, when it's crush loaded, the conductors physically cannot move down the tram to collect fares.

 

[Harvey B]

In addition, when it's crush loaded, the conductors physically cannot move down the tram to collect fares.

Would it not be better to have 1x Conductor on the Trams and have the Fares collected by the Inspectors who are on the Platform instead?

 

[Hophead]

It seems that Google Maps hasn't been updated with the new times: from any stop that I pick, I'm seeing departures every 15 minutes in both directions, with none of them to Blackpool North - indeed this stop doesn't appear at all (I'm using the web version, though I doubt that makes any difference). If visitors are relying on Google Maps (and I suspect many of them are), they are going to be both confused and disappointed, particularly if they're on the southern section heading south.

 

[Harvey B]

It seems that Google Maps hasn't been updated with the new times: from any stop that I pick, I'm seeing departures every 15 minutes in both directions, with none of them to Blackpool North - indeed this stop doesn't appear at all (I'm using the web version, though I doubt that makes any difference). If visitors are relying on Google Maps (and I suspect many of them are), they are going to be both confused and disappointed, particularly if they're on the southern section heading south.

Have they been running any Pleasure Beach to Bispham Specials since the extension opened?

 

[Tramfan]

Have they been running any Pleasure Beach to Bispham Specials since the extension opened?

No, there haven't been any additional trams out

 

[Harvey B]

No, there haven't been any additional trams out

Jesus christ so how are they going to solve the problems of this new abomination of a Timetable before if their plan is to not run any Specials at all?

Can't open an extension on the most bare bones timetable ever as your heading into the busiest season for Demand for the Trams at Blackpool.

They need to either. A) Rethink the timetable before the Summer Holidays or B) have Pleasure Beach to Bispham Specials running on a Daily basis from the Start of the Sunmer Holidays to the start of November

 

[Blackpool boy]

Jesus christ so how are they going to solve the problems of this new abomination of a Timetable before if their plan is to not run any Specials at all?

Can't open an extension on the most bare bones timetable ever as your heading into the busiest season for Demand for the Trams at Blackpool.

They need to either. A) Rethink the timetable before the Summer Holidays or B) have Pleasure Beach to Bispham Specials running on a Daily basis from the Start of the Sunmer Holidays to the start of November

The trams have been very busy and very well used since it opened from North station - at all times when i have used it or passed on the bus so maybe its just a few commentators on here who seem to have a problem with the new timetable and extension ( always the case with something new its better to criticise from afar than actually use it but what do we know )

 

[[email protected].]

Do any heritage tram run up to north on their tours?

 

[Leedsbusman]

The trams have been very busy and very well used since it opened from North station - at all times when i have used it or passed on the bus so maybe its just a few commentators on here who seem to have a problem with the new timetable and extension ( always the case with something new its better to criticise from afar than actually use it but what do we know )

That’s a relief. All is Ok then. Phew.

 

[Harvey B]

The trams have been very busy and very well used since it opened from North station - at all times when i have used it or passed on the bus so maybe its just a few commentators on here who seem to have a problem with the new timetable and extension ( always the case with something new its better to criticise from afar than actually use it but what do we know )

I think you're Misunderstanding what I mean.
A Half an hour service from Pleasure Beach to Cleveleys is a extremely poor

The Southbound Direction is even worse once you get beyond North Pier. Assuming that no Specials are running, people are left waiting 5 Minutes for one Tram, and then 25 Minutes for the next?

Are you saying that you're Happy with that in the Height of the Summer Holidays & during the Illuminations?

I must say, that a Pleasure Beach to Cleveleys summer service utilising the Balloons is needed now more than ever.

(Also, Talking of the Balloons, it looks like 718 is out on Specials today)

 

[Tramfan]

(Also, Talking of the Balloons, it looks like 718 is out on Specials today)

So it is! Very unexpected!

Seems to be running between Starr Gate and Tower, and should be out for another hour or so

 

[Harvey B]

The trams have been very busy and very well used since it opened from North station - at all times when i have used it or passed on the bus so maybe its just a few commentators on here who seem to have a problem with the new timetable and extension ( always the case with something new its better to criticise from afar than actually use it but what do we know )

I don't have a problem with the Extension itself. The problem I have is with the fact that they cut every 2nd Starr Gate to Fleetwood Service. It wouldn't have been so bad if they interworked both T2 and T3 services, Or if they made it a Pleasure Beach to Little Bispham service which goes via North Station. I've explained the reasoning why here:

I think you're Misunderstanding what I mean.
A Half an hour service from Pleasure Beach to Cleveleys is a extremely poor

The Southbound Direction is even worse once you get beyond North Pier. Assuming that no Specials are running, people are left waiting 5 Minutes for one Tram, and then 25 Minutes for the next?

Are you saying that you're Happy with that in the Height of the Summer Holidays & during the Illuminations?

 

[cool110]

Do any heritage tram run up to north on their tours?

Just last Saturday's special as a one off before it fully opened to the public.

 

[Tramfan]

Noticed a tram leave the arrival platform at Starr Gate, and instead of turning back to pull up at the departure stop, it went round the loop through the depot and off north missing out Starr Gate. I've noticed a few trams come back from Starr Gate as if they've been round the loop, rather than changed ends and started from the platform, any ideas as to why?

*edit - 2nd T1 in a row has done that move, but they must pick up at the arrival platform, as there were definitely passengers on the 2nd one