Howardh
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There really should be one at the inland terminus, and via apps.
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Blackpool Trams News
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It can’t be beyond the wit of man to simply encase the screens in something weather/sand/seaproof surely! Even so, that still doesn’t excuse not having an app carrying GPS location data, this is very basic stuff that bus operators have been doing very well for years.
duffield
Established Member
Exactly, just having GPS in the trams relayed to control and to the website, with no tram stop displays, doesn't involve anything weatherproof (and doesn't preclude tram stop displays being added subsequently).
I’d be amazed if the control GPS side of it isn’t already in place, surely?
duffield
Established Member
You would think so, yes, in which case not feeding it into the existing web site, (which already exists and shows tram movements according to the timetable instead of real times) is pretty ludicrous.
I must say I was pretty gobsmacked when I arrived and realised that the website was *not* using realtime data since it does an excellent impression of similar websites that do!
It did used to show real time information, but they switched it off a long time ago.
duffield
Established Member
But do we know *why* they switched it off? Was there any explanation given at the time?
I believe they said it was due to it being unreliable. I personally always found it reasonably accurate
Just returned from 5 days in Blackpool and I have to say the service is useless. Every morning, trams full from around Waterloo Road Northbound.The 25 minute wait Southnound is totally unacceptable, especially on cold wet & windy days (and there were plenty of those last week!). The only improvement seems to be that the timings are now such, that heading South from beyond North Pier, you can now travel fairly safely to North Station and catch the T2. For some reason, on Thursday, most trams had only 1 conductor.
! other complaint, on Tuesday morning, the 10.30 T1, arrived at Starr Gate before the 10.15 T2. Instead of pulling further down to allow the T2 to get through. they went around the depot and arrived at the line next to the fence by the stop, and all of us Fleetwood passengers had to walk up to the gate, and board by climbing from the ground on to the tram, not easy for people like me and my partner with mobility issues and needing a walking stick.
This is a really poor effort from BT. I can't help but feel that the Department of Transport should step in, and tell them to run the improved service, agred when the extension was funded. It really is a disgrace for what is still supposed to be the country's most popular holiday resort.
! other complaint, on Tuesday morning, the 10.30 T1, arrived at Starr Gate before the 10.15 T2. Instead of pulling further down to allow the T2 to get through. they went around the depot and arrived at the line next to the fence by the stop, and all of us Fleetwood passengers had to walk up to the gate, and board by climbing from the ground on to the tram, not easy for people like me and my partner with mobility issues and needing a walking stick.
This is a really poor effort from BT. I can't help but feel that the Department of Transport should step in, and tell them to run the improved service, agred when the extension was funded. It really is a disgrace for what is still supposed to be the country's most popular holiday resort.
Haywain
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I paid a brief visit to Blackpool yesterday to ride the new sections to and from North Station, and on the tram from Central Pier to North Station it was noticeable that quite a number of people boarded without realising, until it was too late, that it was not a Fleetwood service. Several of them were going to Cleveleys and on arrival at North Station were told to just cross the platform where another tram would arrive in a few minutes. What they were not told was they were facing a wait of almost 25 minutes before that next tram would leave, which is particularly unfortunate with the current service pattern.
Everything worked well for me, using a PlusBus ticket for simplicity, although it was a rather brisk day for waiting around at tram stops on the seafront!
While waiting for that departure at North Station I overheard a driver talking to a passenger, who I assume he must have known, about the fleet and he mentioned that a couple of trams are out of service for quite some time, one of them with a hole in the roof - unfortunately, I can't remember the numbers of the trams referred to.
The one thing I would be interested to know is what plans there are for the area around the station tram stop, and when it is expected that it will actually be finished. For the time it took to get the extension opened I expected to see something better than a building site with a rather lonely looking branch of Greggs doubling up as a staff canteen!
Everything worked well for me, using a PlusBus ticket for simplicity, although it was a rather brisk day for waiting around at tram stops on the seafront!
While waiting for that departure at North Station I overheard a driver talking to a passenger, who I assume he must have known, about the fleet and he mentioned that a couple of trams are out of service for quite some time, one of them with a hole in the roof - unfortunately, I can't remember the numbers of the trams referred to.
The one thing I would be interested to know is what plans there are for the area around the station tram stop, and when it is expected that it will actually be finished. For the time it took to get the extension opened I expected to see something better than a building site with a rather lonely looking branch of Greggs doubling up as a staff canteen!
What was the "agreed" frequency?
Haywain
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To my mind the ideal would be a 20 minute frequency service Starr Gate to Fleetwood with a second 20 minute service running between Pleasure Beach and Little Bispham via North Station. That would give a better frequency of service overall and not be such a time penalty for going via the station if they had a reasonably quick turnround.
An easy solution would have been to simply swap the trams over.
That would have required a pvr of at least seventeen, pretty well impossible from a fleet of eighteen.
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In that case, they might as well consider buying an extra 2 Trams should they ever want to increase the service to that frequency.
Andd on that subject. What would the PVR be for a 10 Minute Starr Gate to Fleetwood service going via North station?
On the timings which prevailed until June, 14. On the current timings, 15.
Very true, never understood how they were going to manage that!
Below quote from
https://democracy.blackpool.gov.uk/documents/s31183/Appendix 7a -
'Tramfan' quoted from a Blackpool Council press release, as follows.
The existing tramway service operates between Starr Gate and Fleetwood Ferry from approximately 05.30am until 11.30pm, with a peak service every 10 minutes. Following completion of the extension to North Station, these services and timescales will be maintained. The proposed services to North Station will operate to a similar timescale with a peak service every 10 minutes. The services to and from North Station will alternate with northbound services towards Bispham and southbound services towards Pleasure Beach. The additional services to and from North Station will also provide additional capacity and an increased frequency of service in the busy seafront area of the tramway network.
My own response.
As I read the above, the proposal was to keep the 10-minute end to end service and superimpose additional 10-minute services Bispham - North Station and Pleasure Beach - North Station. That would have been consistent with the exhortation that 'the additional services to and from North Station will also provide additional capacity and an increased frequency of service in the busy seafront area of the tramway network'. However, this could never have been the case, it would require far too many trams.
My own understanding was that the 10-minute departures from Fleetwood and Starr Gate would continue, but every other departure would be diverted to North Station. That would be consistent with the requirement for two additional trams. The foregoing is, of course, what we've had for the past two months, save that the basic headway has been 30 minutes rather than 20.
The existing tramway service operates between Starr Gate and Fleetwood Ferry from approximately 05.30am until 11.30pm, with a peak service every 10 minutes. Following completion of the extension to North Station, these services and timescales will be maintained. The proposed services to North Station will operate to a similar timescale with a peak service every 10 minutes. The services to and from North Station will alternate with northbound services towards Bispham and southbound services towards Pleasure Beach. The additional services to and from North Station will also provide additional capacity and an increased frequency of service in the busy seafront area of the tramway network.
My own response.
As I read the above, the proposal was to keep the 10-minute end to end service and superimpose additional 10-minute services Bispham - North Station and Pleasure Beach - North Station. That would have been consistent with the exhortation that 'the additional services to and from North Station will also provide additional capacity and an increased frequency of service in the busy seafront area of the tramway network'. However, this could never have been the case, it would require far too many trams.
My own understanding was that the 10-minute departures from Fleetwood and Starr Gate would continue, but every other departure would be diverted to North Station. That would be consistent with the requirement for two additional trams. The foregoing is, of course, what we've had for the past two months, save that the basic headway has been 30 minutes rather than 20.
So BT lied initially? They must have known that they didn't have the vehicles to operate that frequency?
You also make it sound like a 30 minute headway is a minor detail? It isn't, it's an appalling level of service.
I mean FGS, they're running what used to be the winter frequency in peak summer.
Haywain
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To be fair, from what I remember, the winter service used to be a simple half-hourly end to end service, which is half of the current service.
As a matter of fact, This timetable that's been in place since June is actually even worse than [What used to be]the Winter frequency. I don't think there's ever been a time where the main Starr Gate to Fleetwood Service has had a gap that is longer than 15 minutes during the day (Even over the Winter) until the North Station Opened. A 30minute wait for a Direct Tram to Fleetwood is an insane idea, even for the winter.
At least you'd get a pretty consistent Headway of 15 minutes between Trams in all Directions with the timetable they had prior to the extension opening in June (I'm assuming this is what you're on about when you say "Winter Frequency").
Giving that the financial situation for the Tramway is pretty bleak at the minute, it would have made sense to retain a single 15 minute Headway Between Starr Gate and Fleetwood and just simply divert all Services via the Extension to North Station. I'm pretty angry that it took until the end of the summer Holidays to revert back to the same timetable and Headways that they used to have right up until the extension opened in June. This change should have happened 6 weeks ago, or better yet, they shouldn't have changed it at all.
Does anyone know the reason(s) why the Timetable was changed (and split up into 3 Separate Services) in the first place? And Does anyone know why it's taken BTS until the end of the Summer Holidays to revert back to their old Timetable?
A Half Hourly end to end Service? I thought it was Quarter-Hourly at the very worst (At least, during the day). Although I could be wrong
It'll also be interesting to see what happens after November:
*Will they Keep the 15 minute Headway in Place?
*Or, Will they revert back to the controversial split service timetable (T1,T2 & T3) in November? And if so, Will they change it and increase the end to end Headway again once Tourist season starts again in April 2025?
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Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I can't help wondering - how did one of the trams get a hole in the roof?!
Perhaps as a result of ‘busy loadings’ due to the current summer timetable?!
[Image shows an overcrowded Mumbai train with passengers on the roof].
Attachments
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Illuminations start soon, so the schedule/timetable will certainly be interesting this year.
I was actually referring back to the winter timetable of the pre-update tramway. I find Blackpool is generally much busier in the winter months than it used to be, and the 15 minute service in recent years has definitely been justified, especially at weekends.
So Before the updated Tramway opened in 2012? I refuse to believe that. How did they cope with a winter frequency of 30 minutes with the old Trams? Did they run 2/3 Trams in Tandem or something?
When you say that the 15 minute service has been justified, Are you meaning just in the winter or are you meaning in General? AFIAK, That 15 minute Winter frequency has been in place since the 'New' Tramway opened in 2012
I think it the pre-upgrade winter frequency was every 20 mins daytime, 30 mins evening using one person operated Centenary/Jubilee cars. They also used to sometimes run Cleveleys to Pleasure Beach on some winter weekends a long time ago. Will dig out some old Trams Magazines to confirm though.
The first year (or 2?) of the upgraded tramway had a 12 minute winter frequency. That's another reason why I find the current timetable so poor - only a few more days left of it though!
I'm happy for the 15 minute frequency to be retirning. I'd love it to be every 12 or every 10 minutes but given their current circumstances, I'd be happy with 15
tram21
Member
Hello everyone,
I know it was mentioned once, is the 'B Fleet' getting some use this year in public service? I saw a blog post about it, but is it a regular thing? I'm hopefully visiting Blackpool on Friday (unrelated to the Illuminations Switch On!), any chance there could be a heritage tram out?
I know it was mentioned once, is the 'B Fleet' getting some use this year in public service? I saw a blog post about it, but is it a regular thing? I'm hopefully visiting Blackpool on Friday (unrelated to the Illuminations Switch On!), any chance there could be a heritage tram out?
Are these accepted on the trams, and is it the whole route to Fleetwood or just to Cleveleys which I've found mentioned somewhere.
Given that their main problem is a shortage of crew rather than trams the B fleet is only out as part of the heritage timetable.
As far as Thornton Gate.
There have been a number of posts on Instagram in past months showing B Fleet trams, generally the Millennium Balloons 707/718, working “LRV specials”, seemingly operating in public service.
Link below to a YouTube video of 718 running in normal service, filmed calling at normal public stops - a magnificent sight indeed!
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