BR Shift working questions

[Tester]

The same year I was only earning £28 and something pence before deductions. That was as an 18 year old Junior Railman.

Bloated plutocrats the lot of you

I started as a Trainee Technician aged 16 in 1972, on £10.35 per week.

Too little to pay tax - the only deduction was 57p national insurance.

Paid in cash weekly, which was rounded up to the next 50p - so pretty much alternated between £9.50 and £10 in the pay packet.

 

[30907]

The same year I was only earning £28 and something pence before deductions. That was as an 18 year old Junior Railman.

I don't remember £37.50 as a CO1 in Nov 78, but maybe I was on an emergency tax code? But yes, after being a student for n years it felt like a lot (and I paid rent to my parents). Sorry, bit OT.

 

[91104]

Weekly pay was the norm right into the mid-1980s when there was a push to go to monthly bank transfer, but I don’t know when this became compulsory. (Or am I confusing cash with bank transfer here?)

I was allowed to pick up my first weeks wages in cash as I was a 16 year old who hadn’t got a bank account sorted but after that it had to be paid 4 weekly into a bank account. I remember getting £3 quarterly for bank charges which I believed BR would’ve offered as an incentive to get people to move from being paid in cash. Showed up as BCC on the payslip if I remember correctly? But even into the late 90s still used to see a couple of the old boys queueing up at the window on a Thursday to collect their wages in cash. Heard plenty of stories of people picking up their weeks wages only to lose most of it at card schools. Weekly payslips persisted into the Noughties when they went 4 weekly until last year when where I’m at (LNER) they are now only provided electronically to our iPad. Still miss the old BR payslips which you needed a maths degree to work out. Loads of different codes, enhancements and allowances.

 

[Andy873]

Bank holidays were automatically worked if you were required: if they didn’t need you you didn’t come in and just got a flat day’s pay. If you did work on a bank holiday you got a marginally higher rate of pay and an extra day’s leave (lieu day/comp(ensatory) day): this could be taken within one year of the original day and was a major source of those odd extra day’s leave. (I used to put mine together to a get an extra week’s holiday.)

A very smart way in my opinion to get an extra weeks holiday, once you know a system you can work it to your advantage.

For some it was pointless going home if they lived more than a few miles away, so a supply of very comfortable seat cushions (ex 4 SUB or similar) were laid on the floor behind the frame...just enough space in this instance....but whoever was on duty during this changeover would need to be very quiet with the levers....there was now't to be done about the bells though....

I can see the point being made here, by the time you get home plus the time it would take to get back to work it simply wasn't worth it. Didn't know that some space down with the frame might be used in such a way. I've often wondered just how often someone might enter one of those rooms? and also what other unwelcome visitors might also await you...

For everyone, thank you for sharing and explaining your shifts, pay and holiday arrangements, all I can say is hat off to you all!

Question please...

One sole porter's work / shift and pay with the following scenario:

It's a small branch line station, the porter is mainly based in the good shed as there are no regular passenger trains. The SM (station master) / GA (goods agent) has left and they have taken on the SM's duties, and as far as I can tell he is the only remaining member of staff.

There are just three morning goods / coal trains daily except Sundays (later just Mondays to Fridays)...

Would this person be working permanent day shifts only?
Would this person get extra pay for taking on many of the former SM's duties?
I'm told he might have even worked the signal box there as required? (there wasn't much traffic in winter time) after / around 1960.

If so, he must have been a "one man band"? (there is no mention of any other staff working there at the time except for relief booking clerks for the summer passenger traffic).

I'm told you'd get different hourly rates of pay depending on what you were doing? if so, his pay packet must have been a complicated one to work out?
Maybe he worked there in the morning, assigned to another station for the afternoon and then returned to lock up the goods yard?

I'd be very interested in your thoughts please, and thanks as always for your fascinating replies.

 

[Roger1973]

As some posts here are on to the subject of wages and wages being paid in cash, this thread from a little while ago (now closed) may be of interest.

In terms of station staff, my nearest station when I was growing up was an SE London suburban station - my memories are there were three platform / ticket barrier staff (not sure when 'porter' became 'railman / railwoman' - and one at this station was a woman, who I understand had gone on the railway as a temporary thing in the 1939-45 war and stayed put. The station garden was never the same after she retired.)

These three seemed to work one on early, one on late, and the third did what on the buses would be referred to as a split or spread-over duty, covering both peaks, so that there would be one on ticket barrier and one on the 'up' platform doing despatch in the morning peak (this in the era of 10 car trains of slam door EPB units), and in the evening peak, the down-side gate would be open and staffed. I can't remember now what the arrangements at weekends were, whether it was one of them on a single 'day' type shift or whether it was early + late on Saturdays and a single shift on Sundays.

On the ticket office side, two windows were open in the morning peak, but I'm not sure how the shift arrangements worked - maybe the second booking clerk was effectively on a split shift and came back for the afternoon / early evening, rather than there being a late shift booking clerk (I presume they didn't have part time staff working just the morning peak then?) There were odd occasions when the ticket office was closed and you didn't get a proper ticket, but the railman would do a hand-written / paper pad ticket.

Would a lot of rest day working have been expected then? I don't remember ever seeing a stranger standing in for one of the three regular station staff, although that could be me just not remembering, or chance that I just didn't see one - the railway travel I did in childhood was for days out at weekends and in school holidays rather than daily...

 

[Gloster]

Question please...

One sole porter's work / shift and pay with the following scenario:

It's a small branch line station, the porter is mainly based in the good shed as there are no regular passenger trains. The SM (station master) / GA (goods agent) has left and they have taken on the SM's duties, and as far as I can tell he is the only remaining member of staff.

There are just three morning goods / coal trains daily except Sundays (later just Mondays to Fridays)...

Would this person be working permanent day shifts only?
Would this person get extra pay for taking on many of the former SM's duties?
I'm told he might have even worked the signal box there as required? (there wasn't much traffic in winter time) after / around 1960.

If so, he must have been a "one man band"? (there is no mention of any other staff working there at the time except for relief booking clerks for the summer passenger traffic).

I'm told you'd get different hourly rates of pay depending on what you were doing? if so, his pay packet must have been a complicated one to work out?
Maybe he worked there in the morning, assigned to another station for the afternoon and then returned to lock up the goods yard?

I'd be very interested in your thoughts please, and thanks as always for your fascinating replies.

This is before my time, but here are some comments. Although there were many different jobs, for pay and seniority they were lumped together in a small number of groups. The Station Master’s job was definitely a management job and the porter would not be doing most SM’s duties, although he might have odd jobs previously done by the SM such as locking up at the end of the day or advising customers that their loads had arrived. If there had once been several staff a porter might find himself upgraded a bit because of his extra duties and responsibilities, or someone already in that grade would find part of their revised duties were jobs previously done by staff in lower grades.

He would almost certainly be on a fixed day turn. If the signalbox was still classified as a signalbox the member of staff working it would be either a signalman or porter-signalman who would have passed the signalling exams. If it had been downgraded to a ground-frame it could be worked by other members of staff, including porters (although possibly not the lowest grade), who had merely been given a basic test on how to work that ground-frame.

He would be on a rate of pay appropriate to his job description: there was no ‘2 hours at £X, 3 at £Y, etc.’. His weekly rate was £Z and that was what he got, with overtime on top (if he did any). There could be odd extra additions, but that would be for something outside your normal job description and wouldn’t be frequent. Your weekly wage was the standard one for the grade you were in and that covered all your normal duties.

On the ticket office side, two windows were open in the morning peak, but I'm not sure how the shift arrangements worked - maybe the second booking clerk was effectively on a split shift and came back for the afternoon / early evening, rather than there being a late shift booking clerk (I presume they didn't have part time staff working just the morning peak then?) There were odd occasions when the ticket office was closed and you didn't get a proper ticket, but the railman would do a hand-written / paper pad ticket.

Would a lot of rest day working have been expected then? I don't remember ever seeing a stranger standing in for one of the three regular station staff, although that could be me just not remembering, or chance that I just didn't see one - the railway travel I did in childhood was for days out at weekends and in school holidays rather than daily...

One possibility is that it was similar to one place I worked. One booking clerk opened early, a second came in for the rush-hour (such as it was) and then one or other manned the window while the other either did all the paperwork required by the station or took their meal break until early afternoon. The third did the afternoon/late shift and then did the cashing up.

I am not quite sure when it went from a 48 to 44 hour week and then down to 40 (and lower for clerical staff), but many shifts could be adjusted at weekends to reduce the number of staff on duty. Three staff on Monday to Friday and two on Saturday as they don’t do any unnecessary paperwork on Saturday: each man gets one Saturday in three off.

There was long a need for rest-day working, particularly in London, and to a certain extant management deliberately kept staffing below establishment in order to bump up the low basic wages. It is quite possible that Relief staff rarely visited except to cover annual leave: even then there were places the Relief staff preferred to avoid and the resident staff were happy to cover.


It should be made clear that this is mostly before my time and I hope I haven’t conflated too many different factors.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Didn't know that some space down with the frame might be used in such a way. I've often wondered just how often someone might enter one of those rooms? and also what other unwelcome visitors might also await you...

You misunderstand me slightly, but you weren't to know - the box I refer to was a mini lever Westinghouse 'L' power frame. Yes, we did have block bells, but these were used in a minimal way, due to the nature of train services passing the patch. The cushions were on the floor behind same in the 'main office' so to speak, not down stairs in the relay room, heaven forbid. We left that area to our S&T guys, it was their space......

Question please...

One sole porter's work / shift and pay with the following scenario:

If only one could turn the clock back. For a number of years I worked with someone who started his career as a porter at one of the L&SWR south coast branch line terminal stations in SR days, but alas he died many years ago, and if he did mention anything about his early days, I do not remember..

 

[Andy873]

You misunderstand me slightly, but you weren't to know - the box I refer to was a mini lever Westinghouse 'L' power frame. Yes, we did have block bells, but these were used in a minimal way, due to the nature of train services passing the patch. The cushions were on the floor behind same in the 'main office' so to speak, not down stairs in the relay room, heaven forbid. We left that area to our S&T guys, it was their space......

Thanks for explaining it again, I did misunderstand what you'd told me.

He would almost certainly be on a fixed day turn.

I presume you mean just worked days. from what you all had to work that would sound at first to be a cushy job, but then again limited opportunity for overtime. Unless he found overtime at another station it looks like his pay wouldn't have been great, but then again it's sometimes a case of "better the devil you know" (rather than going for a different job somewhere else).

As some posts here are on to the subject of wages and wages being paid in cash, this thread from a little while ago (now closed) may be of interest.

Thanks, I will have a read of it.

I don't really have any more questions on this (unless some else has) and once again just want to thank you all for the interesting and fascinating replies!

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Thanks for explaining it again, I did misunderstand what you'd told me.

Just a final note as to terminology: as mentioned, in the case of boxes with frames such as the Westinghouse 'L' power frame, the room physically below (in most cases) was known as a 'relay' room, as mentioned, essentially banks of electrical relays. In some cases where the boxes were mounted on gantries, such as at Clapham Junction A, West London Junction and others, this relay room was within one of the 'shed's alongside the 'main office' on the gantry.
For boxes that had full size (mechanically operated) leavers, the room below was sometimes referred to as the 'locking' (ie: interlocking) room. In both cases, if a problem occurred whereby the Bobbie couldn't return a lever in to frame, it would be the job of the S&T to attend the relay/locking room and fix the problem to allow the lever to be returned to its 'N' (Normal) position.
There were many old school mechanical boxes that over time were gradually converted to electrical (relay) operation in part, but retained their mechanical levers. Any such levers that had cut down (shortened) lever handles indicated those levers concerned.

 

[Gloster]

I presume you mean just worked days. from what you all had to work that would sound at first to be a cushy job, but then again limited opportunity for overtime. Unless he found overtime at another station it looks like his pay wouldn't have been great, but then again it's sometimes a case of "better the devil you know" (rather than going for a different job somewhere else).

BR paid you a nationally agreed rate of pay for a job at a grade that had been decided locally according to national guidelines. You were paid £xy for ab hours a week: 48 then 44 by around 1960, and later 44. That you were entitled to subject to attendance. You had no automatic right to overtime, Sundays, etc. For example, the job you took might have regular Sundays and the roster and local agreements would indicate who was entitled to each Sunday (‘Late turn Saturday to do Sunday‘), but if the management decided that the Sunday was no longer needed, that was that. (I knew of one signalman who had transferred from one box to another because his new box had Sundays and the old didn’t, only to see the Sunday transferred to his old box.)

The one remaining chap would probably work 07.00-15.00 or 08.00-16.00 Monday to Friday and, if it was the 44 hour week, four hours on Saturday morning. Probably no chance of any overtime, unless another station was short and he went there on Saturday afternoon or Sunday (very rare), in which case he would probably have to pay his own bus fare as it was over and above his contract. But he still had a job and a guaranteed £xy a week: with memories of the Depression still fresh, that was not to be sniffed at.

 

[Roger1973]

I've read in one or two railwaymens' memoirs that staff (can't remember now if it was referring to station staff or signallers) at location A (that wasn't staffed on Sundays) 'shared the Sunday overtime' at location B (that was) on a regular basis.

Was that a common arrangement?

Or would locations have been grouped together to even out the shifts / days? From my background, Cannon Street comes to mind - I think in the early 80s, it closed mid evening, wasn't open Sundays, and I can't remember now whether it still opened Saturday mornings. Holborn Viaduct may have been similar, although I never knew it well as the trains across the Lewisham - Nunhead divide only ran peak hours. And of course the Waterloo and City Line.

Would the station staff at locations like that have either been part of a common staff roster (if that's the correct technical term) with somewhere else (Charing Cross, Blackfriars?) or would they have been expected to / had the option to do Sunday overtime there?

Or would they have just not done late evening / Saturday afternoon / Sunday work? (I presume BR station staff had some degree of choice - even if it was a case of applying for a move / waiting for seniority after their initial posting - about where they were based? I can imagine there would have been some people content not to do odd hours / Sundays even if it meant a bit less money.) For that matter, did the railways pay enhanced rates for 'unsocial hours'?

 

[CW2]

My early years on BR were in the booking offices at Hadley Wood, Potters Bar, and Oakleigh Park. (At the latter, ticket sales might get suspended occasionally for a short time due to the passage of a Deltic or class 40 on the Down Fast, but I digress...).
There was an additional payment called London Weighting Allowance to attract people to work on the railways in the London area, where the competition for labour was quite high. It applied to anybody working within 12 miles of a London terminal station. The cunning Area Clerk at Hitchin made my "home station" as Potters Bar, which fell about half a mile outside the London Weighting area boundary, then sent me to work at Hadley Wood so I got paid an additional 3 minutes "travelling time" each way per shift. That way they saved BR a few shillings a week.

In later years I did various Control office jobs, rising up through the ranks through successive redudancies and being obliged to move the length of the country. In the Control, there were "regular" jobs where you controlled the same geographical area day after day on a rotating 3-shift pattern; Rest Day Relief (RDR) which involved covering a number of different geographical areas - but still on a fixed pattern of shifts; and General Purpose Relief (GPR) which involved covering pretty much everything, often at short notice, e.g. illness, Annual Leave, vacancy cover, etc.

There were various "local agreements", some of which were negotiated formally and documented accordingly, and some of which arose through custom and practice. One I recall from Glasgow Control was that the shift change on a Saturday afternoon was always 13:00 instead of 14:00, so that there was time to get to the football matches.

Heading slightly off-topic (but still of interest I hope) was the shift system I learned was in common use in Poland for their station / signalling staff in the 1980s/90s. It was a continuous system for (I think) three people like this:
12 hours on
12 hours off
12 hours on
24 hours off
12 hours on
12 hours off
12 hours on
48 hours off.
It wouldn't have found favour in the UK, particularly where lengthy commutes added to the length of the working day, but in rural Poland it was much prized.

 

[6Gman]

I can see the point being made here, by the time you get home plus the time it would take to get back to work it simply wasn't worth it. Didn't know that some space down with the frame might be used in such a way. I've often wondered just how often someone might enter one of those rooms? and also what other unwelcome visitors might also await you...

As has already been pointed out "downstairs" was very much S&T staff territory and I suspect entry for others would be invitation only and supervised.

"Other unwelcome visitors" would definitely be a problem! Some signalboxes were notorious for their other residents. One of the Caernarfon 'boxes was known locally as something like The Rat Hole or The Rat's Nest because it was swarming with them. When it was demolished there was a mass exit of the creatures!

 

[Trainfan2019]

What were the shifts and opening times for small station booking offices in the 70s and 80s compared to current shifts and opening times please?

By small station, think 2 platforms, current booking office opening times Monday to Saturday say 6am to 12pm mid-day, closed Sundays. Station served at least an hourly service in both directions 6-7 days a week.

Would these stations have had afternoon and evening booking office shifts back in the 70s and 80s? If so, when did these shifts and opening times start to reduce?

 

[Andy873]

What were the shifts and opening times for small station booking offices in the 70s and 80s compared to current shifts and opening times please?

That's a great question, I didn't think I had anymore questions but on the same subject (early 1960's), what opening times / shifts for a small station booking office that was closed to regular passenger services? This station only opened the booking office from say mid June to the end of August for the summer period.

 

[Falcon1200]

In the Control, there were "regular" jobs where you controlled the same geographical area day after day on a rotating 3-shift pattern; Rest Day Relief (RDR) which involved covering a number of different geographical areas - but still on a fixed pattern of shifts; and General Purpose Relief (GPR) which involved covering pretty much everything, often at short notice, e.g. illness, Annual Leave, vacancy cover, etc.

I started in Glasgow Control (One of @CW2's many workplaces!) in 1984, and as CW2 says there were Shift, RDR and GPR Controllers. The Shift staff stayed together and worked a simple Early/Late/Nights repeating roster. The night week was the full seven shifts, starting on Sunday night and finishing on the following Sunday morning, hence all their Rest Days were on the early and late weeks. This meant that the RDR staff did not (normally) work nights, and therefore took home less money than the other staff thanks to shift enhancements. OTOH it meant that RDR staff were available to work every Sunday, whereas the shift staff could not of course when starting or finishing their night week; This benefitted me when I was RDR! Back in 1984 Sunday day shifts (which were 12 hours, 1000-2200) were not rostered but were allocated on an equalisation basis, so you did not know for sure if you were working on Sunday until the roster was posted (on what became known as the wailing wall) on Thursday.

Thankfully rostering arrangements were improved in later years.....

 

[Andy R. A.]

What were the shifts and opening times for small station booking offices in the 70s and 80s compared to current shifts and opening times please?

By small station, think 2 platforms, current booking office opening times Monday to Saturday say 6am to 12pm mid-day, closed Sundays. Station served at least an hourly service in both directions 6-7 days a week.

Would these stations have had afternoon and evening booking office shifts back in the 70s and 80s? If so, when did these shifts and opening times start to reduce?

Looking at the areas I worked in during the 70s and 80s the majority of stations were staffed during the normal hours that the train service operated. The smaller stations typically had an Early shift Leading Railman who opened up the Booking Office and issued tickets. This would start between 0530 and 0630 depending on when the first trains arrived. Later in the morning, again depending on the station, a Clerical Staff member would come on to issue the tickets while the Leading Railman 'saw the trains off' in the Rush Hour period. With the clerk in the office the Leading Railman would then attend to the daily cleaning of the station. The clerk would 'cover the gap' after the Leading Railman finished, and a Late shift Leading Railman booked on, who would then man the Ticket Office until between 2200-2330 depending on location and the train service pattern. At these types of stations there were usually no Clerical staff on duty on the Saturday and Sunday, and the Ticket Offices were manned by an Early and Late shift Leading Railman 0600-1400 and 1400 to 2200. Smaller stations were staffed on just the Saturday, or sometimes not staffed at all.
At some stations there was a Senior Railman instead of a Leading Railman, usually if these staff were required to also operate Ground Frames or emergency cover at local Level Crossings if the Barriers had failed as part of their duties.

 

[Roger1973]

Looking at the areas I worked in during the 70s and 80s the majority of stations were staffed during the normal hours that the train service operated. The smaller stations typically had an Early shift Leading Railman who opened up the Booking Office and issued tickets.

Firstly, just to make clear I'm not doubting you at all, and I'm sure different things were done in different areas (and think I have read one or two memoir books in which porters had to cope with issuing tickets from the ticket office at the early / late end of the day.)

But I don't remember the 'railman' grade at the local station (southern region, eastern division, london suburbs) ever issuing tickets via the booking office. If the booking office was closed (either outside opening hours, or suppose booking clerks had meal breaks) then s/he would issue a ticket on a paper pad sort of thing (presume it was a duplicate book with carbon paper, to account for takings) either from the sentry box arrangement at the barrier, or from a separate window in the door to the 'staff only' bit, not 'proper' tickets from the 'proper' booking office window.

I can't remember us (as in me and parents when I was travelling with them) wanting anything more complicated than a day return to 'London (SR)' in those circumstances - I don't know how the railman would have handled someone wanting to make a long distance journey, or renew a season ticket or something.

By 'railman' I don't know exactly what grade they would have been - from memory they had the sort of jacket that was somewhere between a proper uniform jacket and a tracksuit top - zip rather than buttons, and it had red edging. I don't remember the booking clerk wearing uniform.

Having said that, local station used a combination of Ultimatic (?) machine tickets for the most popular varieties, and the cash register based machine that printed price and date on to an 'Edmonson' ticket. Is it that they didn't let railman level staff handle those machines?

 

[Gloster]

I think that you had to be a Senior Railman, the third step after Railman and Leading Railman, to handle cash. The problem was that the clerical staff were unhappy about platform staff working in booking offices. This was not just job protection, but also because of security aspects and the risk that the Senior Railman would make a mess of the ticket machines or the accounting. Senior Railman sometimes did work alone in the booking office, but they were very limited as to what they could do.

Quite simply, the Senior Railman probably couldn’t do more than sell straightforward tickets on pads to a limited number of popular destinations, for which they probably had a crib sheet of prices. If you wanted a Weekend Return to Kinbrace routed via Llangammarch Wells, please come back when the ticket office is open: but they could sell you a ticket to get you as far as Charing Cross.

The Senior Railman on the barrier was supposed to issue Excess Fares, but if it was too complicated they either had to issue a simpler ticket, or just wave you though. There probably was a loss of income, but less than the cost of more staff.

I can only really speak about my bit of leafy SWD suburbia (large-ish commuter village), but I think the booking office in the 1970s was open from around 06.30 to 19.00 Monday to Saturday and one middle shift on Sunday. BR is often libelled as being an unwieldy monolithic organisation, but at a local level it was very good at trimming hours to fit the traffic (at least around where I was).

 

[Andy R. A.]

But I don't remember the 'railman' grade at the local station (southern region, eastern division, london suburbs) ever issuing tickets via the booking office. If the booking office was closed (either outside opening hours, or suppose booking clerks had meal breaks) then s/he would issue a ticket on a paper pad sort of thing (presume it was a duplicate book with carbon paper, to account for takings) either from the sentry box arrangement at the barrier, or from a separate window in the door to the 'staff only' bit, not 'proper' tickets from the 'proper' booking office window.

A 'Railman' didn't issue tickets, but a Leading Railman did. I remember it quite well having been involved in rostering station staff in several areas. Bigger stations usually had Clerical staff exclusively manning the Ticket Office. Smaller stations had Ticket Offices manned by Leading Railmen (or sometimes Senior Railman, or Chargemen), with an over lapping clerical back up during the day. Ore, West St. Leonards and Crowhurst had Leading Railmen issuing tickets from the Ticket Office, including Season Tickets. Battle had Senior Railmen in the Ticket Office. Going back to a previous area in London, Essex Road, Drayton Park, Harringay and Hornsey were predominantly staffed by 'Leading Railmens' grades who worked in the Ticket Offices at those stations. Finsbury Park was a clerically staffed Ticket office, and when shut the Barrier staff, who were Leading Railmen issued tickets from their Excess Books at the Barrier. The later style BR uniforms from the early 80s were defined by the stripes on the cuff of the uniform jacket, on on shirt epaulettes. Single red stripe was 'Railman', who were usually employed on general duties other than Ticket Offices. The Leading Railmen had two red stripes, and could be employed in issuing tickets from the Booking Offices at certain stations. Senior Railmen had two Blue stripes, and Chargeman had three blue stripes.

 

[Roger1973]

Single red stripe was 'Railman', who were usually employed on general duties other than Ticket Offices. The Leading Railmen had two red stripes, and could be employed in issuing tickets from the Booking Offices at certain stations. Senior Railmen had two Blue stripes, and Chargeman had three blue stripes.

Thanks - I didn't realise it was as complicated as that!

At this distance in time, I can't remember how many red stripes the station staff had.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Thanks - I didn't realise it was as complicated as that!

At this distance in time, I can't remember how many red stripes the station staff had.

I suppose I was lucky that from 1975 I started keeping a Work Diary, and these have lasted down the years, which contain a lot of detailed information, especially starting on a new job or location which lists the staffing and grades. I have gradually been putting these entries 'on line' under the theme of 43 years ago. I'm currently mid-way through my GN days at Finsbury Park, with my move to the Southern to start next year sometime.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I suppose I was lucky that from 1975 I started keeping a Work Diary, and these have lasted down the years, which contain a lot of detailed information, especially starting on a new job or location which lists the staffing and grades. I have gradually been putting these entries 'on line' under the theme of 43 years ago. I'm currently mid-way through my GN days at Finsbury Park, with my move to the Southern to start next year sometime.

An excellent thing to do , I really wish I had kept a diary of my time from 1979 onwards.

With care , it could make a good (though specialist read !) , much like the several volumes of the Area Manager at Exeter.

 

[75A]

I wish I had too, not so much loco numbers but special workings and the like, would be interesting all these years later.

 

[Taunton]

I didn't actually ever have railway pay. But I was involved to advise how to bring the various terms & conditions across when privatisation of various elements of BR took place. For normal commercial pay systems it was an absolute nightmare, but one of the aspects of privatisation included the pay calculation department (at Crewe ?), which set up as a private company on the old BR computer system, which had been self-programmed specifically for the task. The TUPE regulations meant that those transferred continued to have their previous arrangements, at least, so the way through the quagmire was to contract back to this company the calculation of the pay. Of course, the fullest advantage was taken of this monopoly position by the company, and the cost per payslip they charged skyrocketed, so eventually most companies "bought out" the BR conditions etc with a fixed payment, putting them on to standard industry arrangements. This was a further one-way street for those (especially unionised) to negotiate a notably significant one-off compensation payment for this.

Good for them!

For those who think us lot outside these conditions have it easy, there is the need to periodically go and visit for a week colleagues in the Australia office. Into work extra early on Friday to assemble everything and clear out commitments, rush off at 6pm to Heathrow, Friday evening departure, arriving Australia early Sunday morning IN ECONOMY, hotel not ready for me until 2pm so hang around zonked, into their office at 8am (not 9) on Monday morning. Similar at end of the week on return. And not a penny extra onto salary.

 

[Ploughman]

As a Tech / Site Engineer on track renewals we could work all combinations of hours, often with no notice.
Basically before rostering was introduced I was expected to work 37 hour weeks before any weekend overtime.
Later with rostering, I was usually on 5 rostered weekend shifts and 3 days of 08.00 - 16.00 The remaining period shifts were all at overtime rates.
Weekends were all based on a minimum 12 hours door to door with an hour each way travel and 10 hours on site.
However with a renewal double or even treble 12 hour shifts could be worked followed by 4 nights of 10 hour shifts.
This was all out on track in all weathers.
Short notice of overnight work was common with going home at 10.00 in the morning after getting into the office at 08.00 to go and look after a tamper or stressing for a defect weld. Although it was not unheard of to go on a night shift after doing a full day to find someone had gone sick and needed replacing.
Longest time on site due to machine / train failure - 28 hours.

As an aside My van had radio 2 permanently set. It was quite regular to hear every presenter through a 24 hour period.

 

[HotAirBalloon]

Really interesting thread. When did the culture change start that such working patterns may not help facilitate the safe running of a railway? Emergencies excepted of course.

 

[Tester]

Really interesting thread. When did the culture change start that such working patterns may not help facilitate the safe running of a railway? Emergencies excepted of course.

Pretty much the aftermath of Clapham (12 December 1988).

 

[Andy873]

Really interesting thread.

Yes I agree, thought it might make a great subject.

I really wish I had kept a diary of my time from 1979 onwards.

I wish I had too

From my point of view (not criticising!), I really wish diaries had been kept. The amount of information I could have learnt from these would probably have answered many of my questions and saved lots of time researching my old branch line. But what can I say, not too many people keep diaries or have time to do so especially regarding work, I never did.

The remaining period shifts were all at overtime rates.

From what you all are telling me is that the overtime really bumped up the wages. Did anyone (for some reason) end up with a flat week's wage? boy that must have been painful...

 

[Gloster]

Quite a few jobs were basic rate or only gained the small enhancements for late evening or Saturday work: no nights, no Sundays, no overtime. Where possible there was an attempt by the management to spread the overtime and spare Sundays about, but there was no automatic entitlement to such.

My first job in 1978 as a Railman (Lampman) consisted of working 06.30-14.30 Monday to Friday, which meant absolutely flat wages. However, being leafy suburbia with plenty of better paid jobs available off the railway there were always staff shortages, I got a fair few Saturday and Sunday turns on the platform, plus the odd afternoon overtime after I had done my main job.

My second job was as a Leading Railman (Numbertaker) further out from London, where I did 08.30-12.30 and 13.30-17.30: the morning was spent on numbertaking and related work, and the afternoon sorting C&D parcels. Again, a flat week, although at a marginally higher rate. However, the two old boys who alternated Early and Late shifts on the platform were of an age where working every Sunday no longer appealed and they gave up half of them. So the Senior Railman (Shunter) and I got roughly every other Sunday on the platform, although we were paid at Railman’s rate for these turns. (The shunter was on a permanent 06.00-14.00 Monday to Friday and made up his money giving driving lessons in the afternoon.) Additionally, if the parcels sorting depot at the nearby town had a backlog it sometimes did an extra shift on Saturday mornings and might call in staff from our station to make up the numbers: that was at Railman‘s rate and mostly only occurred in the run up to Christmas.

The nature of the railway meant that there were plenty of jobs which could be done in daytime in the week and had absolutely no need to be done at weekends or nights. Even with an attempt to share the enhanced hours around, there just isn’t enough for everybody and, with the railway being spread out (unlike a factory which may be all on one site) there are problems about covering at other locations.