BR Shift working questions

[Andy873]

My first job in 1978 as a Railman (Lampman) consisted of working 06.30-14.30 Monday to Friday, which meant absolutely flat wages. However, being leafy suburbia with plenty of better paid jobs available off the railway there were always staff shortages, I got a fair few Saturday and Sunday turns on the platform,

Can anyone tell me about uniforms please, who (what positions) had to wear one? I've seen quite a few photos of signallers and they don't. Some wearing ties, others not? I'm presuming any public facing staff would need to be in uniform? and were these supplied to you by BR?

 

[75A]

Traincrew were supplied with uniforms but it wasn't compulsory as I remember.

 

[Gloster]

Can anyone tell me about uniforms please, who (what positions) had to wear one? I've seen quite a few photos of signallers and they don't. Some wearing ties, others not? I'm presuming any public facing staff would need to be in uniform? and were these supplied to you by BR?

Signalmen did get issued with uniforms, but they were plain: black jacket with BR buttons, black trousers, peaked cap with BR insignia in black on it and a black overcoat. There were also the standard BR grey heavy-duty macs. To a certain extent it was preference as to whether you wore uniform or not, although you should by the rules. However, there was also the nature of the duties: if you were out handsignalling or acting as pilotman you would wear uniform both so that they could see who you were and to avoid soiling your own clothes. You would often wear your own clothes but it was understood they should be in muted colours: one no-no was wearing red.

By my time on the railway HV (high visibility) jackets, although only of the small and thin type in those days, were in use. (Somewhere I still have mine, complete with round black mark on the front when I lent against a buffer while removing a recalcitrant tail-lamp from a vanfit.) If you needed to go out on the track or to wear something that indicated you were official, you could always put that on. But, at least in the locations where I worked, we didn’t always do that: the purpose of an HV vest was to give the driver of a moving train extra time to sound the horn to give warning of his approach. If you were the signalman, you knew whether there were moving trains about and so could not bother about the HV vest if there weren’t any.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Signalmen did get issued with uniforms

Still have mine, although nothing fits now - no surprise - I was only 16 when it were issued to me. Never got the cap, lack of correct size in stores at the time, and the trousers - they were those near to 'drainpipe' style, but the worst of it was they itched like no bodies business, no one (that I worked with) liked them. Bought a plain black pair of trousers of my own. The overcoat was brilliant, and to this day have never found anything to match its comfort and usefulness in the winter months - just wish I could still get it on...

 

[John Webb]

A look at Brian Haresnape's "British Rail 1948-78 - A Journey by Design" (Ian Allan, 1979, ISBN 1 7110 0982 1) may interest you as changes in uniform over the years are discussed and illustrated amongst other things.
Photos (and video) we have of St Albans South and adjacent boxes from the 1970s generally show signalmen in fairly casual wear. Also photographed was one of the lady booking clerks/station announcer who was dressed in 'smart casual' which certainly wasn't BR issue! She can be seen at https://signalbox.org/photo-gallery/midland-railway/st-albans-south/.

 

[75A]

Still have mine, although nothing fits now - no surprise - I was only 16 when it were issued to me. Never got the cap, lack of correct size in stores at the time, and the trousers - they were those near to 'drainpipe' style, but the worst of it was they itched like no bodies business, no one (that I worked with) liked them. Bought a plain black pair of trousers of my own. The overcoat was brilliant, and to this day have never found anything to match its comfort and usefulness in the winter months - just wish I could still get it on...

You're right about the blanket overcoat, they were really good for sleeping in, we had a night turn where we went 'Pass' to East Croydon, worked a van train to Chichester then sat (slept) there for 3 hours or so in the shunters hut before working a stone train back to Hove (later Preston Park), without the overcoat we'd of had hyperthermia.

 

[Andy R. A.]

Yes, the old 'blanket' style overcoats certainly kept you warm. However the old waterproof 'Macs' were something else. They did the job of keeping the rain out, but were somewhat stiff to wear. I can remember I had one that you could take off, do the buttons up, and then could stand it up in the corner on its own like a tent.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I can remember I had one that you could take off, do the buttons up, and then could stand it up in the corner on its own like a tent.

Imagine waking up from slumber and suddenly seeing that out the corner of your eye...enough to give the old ticker a jolt...

You're right about the overcoat,

Use to 'pass' with several others, mostly drivers, to work on earlies in one of the 1st compo's in a Vep, and as much as I liked those units (enthusiast pov) one could never stop the draughts.

 

[75A]

Imagine waking up from slumber and suddenly seeing that out the corner of your eye...enough to give the old ticker a jolt...

Use to 'pass' with several others, mostly drivers, to work on earlies in one of the 1st compo's in a Vep, and as much as I liked those units (enthusiast pov) one could never stop the draughts.

I went to and from work in a HAP lovely @warm

 

[Andy873]

Signalmen did get issued with uniforms, but they were plain: black jacket with BR buttons, black trousers, peaked cap with BR insignia in black on it and a black overcoat. There were also the standard BR grey heavy-duty macs. To a certain extent it was preference as to whether you wore uniform or not, although you should by the rules. However, there was also the nature of the duties: if you were out handsignalling or acting as pilotman you would wear uniform both so that they could see who you were and to avoid soiling your own clothes. You would often wear your own clothes but it was understood they should be in muted colours: one no-no was wearing red.

Thanks for explaining that, I see wearing red was a no no then.

who was dressed in 'smart casual' which certainly wasn't BR issue! She can be seen at https://signalbox.org/photo-gallery/midland-railway/st-albans-south/.

I see what you mean, the few photos I can see (in the book I'm reading) are of signallers smiling for the camara from their boxes. They seem to be in smart casual dress, that is dark trousers with white shirts, but non on them are wearing ties, maybe it was a hot day?

Still have mine, although nothing fits now - no surprise - I was only 16 when it were issued to me. Never got the cap, lack of correct size in stores at the time, and the trousers - they were those near to 'drainpipe' style, but the worst of it was they itched like no bodies business, no one (that I worked with) liked them. Bought a plain black pair of trousers of my own.

Nothing worse that itchy pants! interesting they were so bad to wear you bought you own replacement.

Yes, the old 'blanket' style overcoats certainly kept you warm. However the old waterproof 'Macs' were something else.

Looks like it wasn't all bad then. I once washed a pair of jeans (I over did it with the starch which I didn't normally bother with) and they too could stand up all by themselves, a very strange sight.

Thanks all for sharing about the shift workings, uniforms etc, I can't contribute anything to it as I never worked for BR, but I can tell you it all makes for a fascinating read.

 

[Dai Corner]

Thanks for explaining that, I see wearing red was a no no then.

I'd imagine wearing green or yellow would be even more of a no-no?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I'd imagine wearing green or yellow would be even more of a no-no?

Funny, when thinking back, but it was only red that was a no-no, in case something/someone was mistaken for a danger signal of one type or other. Not a colour light necessarily but think Jenny Agutter and co. in 'The Railway Children'. Not sure if it was in the rule book, I'll go and have a look in a minute, but it got mentioned on Induction courses and signalling courses for sure.

 

[Gloster]

I don’t think it was in the rule book, which probably only included something about wearing the uniform supplied. Signalmen, being a rule to themselves, just knew that you didn’t wear anything bright red (or green, or yellow): I don’t remember it ever being mentioned, but we we were thought to be clever enough not to do something so obviously daft. If someone was dim enough to do so, I suspect that they would quickly be ‘given guidance’ by other signalmen.

As far as ties were concerned, I don’t think I was ever issued with a signalman’s one, if there was such a thing. I did have a bright red Railman’s one, but on the occasions that we felt like being particularly neat, just wore one of my own. I did wear the Cornish Railways one that I was issued when down there: that was quite a tie.

 

[John Webb]

.....I see what you mean, the few photos I can see (in the book I'm reading) are of signallers smiling for the camara from their boxes. They seem to be in smart casual dress, that is dark trousers with white shirts, but non on them are wearing ties, maybe it was a hot day?.....

I never worked for BR, but since becoming involved with St Albans South box, I am not surprised that few signallers are seen wearing ties. The large area of windows present makes them mini-greenhouses - or in our box at 42ft long a sizeable greenhouse!

 

[Andy873]

As far as ties were concerned, I don’t think I was ever issued with a signalman’s one

That's a real shame, it would have made a great souvenir, a reminder of days gone by.

I never worked for BR, but since becoming involved with St Albans South box, I am not surprised that few signallers are seen wearing ties. The large area of windows present makes them mini-greenhouses - or in our box at 42ft long a sizeable greenhouse!

It seems obvious when you say it, but it never dawned on me that you were effectively working in a greenhouse. It probably goes a long way to explaining why none of the signallers in the photos are wearing ties and windows are open.

I'd imagine wearing green or yellow would be even more of a no-no?

As along with red, these are the possible signal colours. I could imagine on a dark night with the lights on in a box how a driver might just catch a glimpse of green and continue on.

 

[Gloster]

As along with red, these are the possible signal colours. I could imagine on a dark night with the lights on in a box how a driver might just catch a glimpse of green and continue on.

Signalbox lighting was usually pretty bad so it was unlikely that a driver would see anything bright enough at night. I always assumed that it was in daylight a driver might see a something that he thought was a red flag being urgently waved, when it was only the signalman moving. It was the risk of an unnecessary emergency stop (think of an elderly passenger standing up or another walking back from the buffet with a scalding cup of coffee) that was the concern. Yellow wasn’t usually used from a box and a green was used after a train had been stopped by a red. (There was a story going the rounds that somewhere on the Chester-Holyhead line there had been a case when a driver just glimpsed a bit of moving red as he passed the box and (correctly) threw the anchors out: it was a somebody in a red jumper leaving the box through the end door.)

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I always assumed that it was in daylight a driver might see a something that he thought was a red flag being urgently waved, when it was only the signalman moving. It was the risk of an unnecessary emergency stop

That was always my take on it as well. Back in the day most loco's/units had cabs with droplight/sliding windows to the left and right of the drivers/second man's respective cab seats, so there always a risk that a driver might momentarily glimpse something out of the corner of their vision, and having had safety drilled in to them, their reaction would liable to be as Gloster says, throw the emergency in. I suspect such possible distractions is the reason modern trains are now designed with no cab windows to the sides of the driving seat position.

Signalbox lighting was usually pretty bad

Many Bobbies preferred to have the lights dim at night, and I have known the odd one to work by the light of the diagram panel alone, albeit in this case there was ambient lighting from outside the railway boundary, so it wasn't a case of pitch blackness! Never worked in an ASC myself, but my job involved visiting a number of them for meetings, but I found the diagram panels in some of these very uncomfortable to look at, possibly because they were so large (long) in some cases, but the brightness of them seemed to be considerably more than the old school (2 red dots per track circuit) type that I had previously worked with. Suppose had I worked in an ASC, no doubt would have become accustomed to it - but in such cases being only one of several people on a shift, one might not be able to have the lighting set as one would prefer (if alone).

 

[Rescars]

Funny, when thinking back, but it was only red that was a no-no, in case something/someone was mistaken for a danger signal of one type or other. Not a colour light necessarily but think Jenny Agutter and co. in 'The Railway Children'. Not sure if it was in the rule book, I'll go and have a look in a minute, but it got mentioned on Induction courses and signalling courses for sure.

Perhaps they were sufficiently invisible from operational duties, but Travellers Fare restaurant and buffet car stewards were equipped with red jackets. Very smart they looked too. Chief Stewards wore a much less confusing blue.

 

[Taunton]

I recall during some Sunday single-line working, up to the 1980s, that the pilotman had normal civvies of the era, tweed jacket etc, but with a prominent 'Pilotman' armband. There was some procedure involved with issuing this, there was only one so it was effectively a single line token as well. Such armband identification of authority was also a onetime tradition for various roles off the railway.

 

[Friary Yard]

WR 1970's uniforms for passenger facing clerks was a lightweight grey jacket with a metal Gold and Black BR Symbol on the lapel.
Station Staff had their rank marking on their cuff and cap in a rather naval style. 1 Red band for Railman, One Silver (grey) band for Leading Railman and 2 silver for Senior Railman.
1 Gold (yellow) band for Chargeman and 2 for Supervisors. Station Managers wore suits and had an oakleaf cap band and Area Managers wore suits and bowler hats.

 

[Gloster]

I recall during some Sunday single-line working, up to the 1980s, that the pilotman had normal civvies of the era, tweed jacket etc, but with a prominent 'Pilotman' armband. There was some procedure involved with issuing this, there was only one so it was effectively a single line token as well. Such identification of authority was also a onetime tradition for various roles off the railway.

The Pilotman’s armband was very important and was, as said, effectively the same as a Single Line Token: a record was kept in the train register as to who was the Pilotman and any changeovers. Not only should there only be one armband, but it was important that it was visible, not just to signalmen, who would know where the Pilotman was, but also to other staff, particularly those on the track, so that they would know which direction the next train would run in (although the lookout should be looking-out anyway). See the well-known training film made on the Somerset & Dorset for more information, although by my time there weren’t quite so many forms.

 

[John Webb]

.....Many Bobbies preferred to have the lights dim at night, and I have known the odd one to work by the light of the diagram panel alone, albeit in this case there was ambient lighting from outside the railway boundary, so it wasn't a case of pitch blackness!.......

The lighting in the restored St Albans South box uses the original light fittings, seen here in 2018:

The shade on the right nearest the camera directs light onto the clock and train register book desk and the further shade on the sink and cooker that were near the door.
The two lights on the centre line of the box light up the levers, diagram and block instruments.
Behind the photographer was a desk with the station announcer's console, lit by a small lamp shaded to shine vertically down.
We assume the lighting was arranged this way to allow the signalman to look out at night and see the tail lamps etc.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

We assume the lighting was arranged this way to allow the signalman to look out at night and see the tail lamps etc.

Quite so. If the interior was well lit, no one within would be able to see anything outside during hours of darkness.

PS: that is a lovely restoration you have done there. I do intend to pop up sometime, not being a million miles away.

 

[Rescars]

The lighting in the restored St Albans South box uses the original light fittings, seen here in 2018:
View attachment 141771
The shade on the right nearest the camera directs light onto the clock and train register book desk and the further shade on the sink and cooker that were near the door.
The two lights on the centre line of the box light up the levers, diagram and block instruments.
Behind the photographer was a desk with the station announcer's console, lit by a small lamp shaded to shine vertically down.
We assume the lighting was arranged this way to allow the signalman to look out at night and see the tail lamps etc.

These shaded directional lights must have been quite an improvement over their gas and oil predecessors. I recall travelling through Oxford during a power cut c1970. The platforms were in total darkness with passengers being directed with torches, but the signal boxes at each end of the station were a blaze of (gas)light.