BRIGHTLINE Miami to Orlando

[Ploughman]

New high speed line just opened in Florida

After almost four years of construction, Brightline's Orlando expansion opened to the public on September 22, 2023. I was offered the opportunity to ride on the first train (a special VIP/Media train) between Miami and Orlando. This video looks at the day's events, from the first press conference in Miami, to highlights of the trip on the new route between West Palm Beach and Orlando, and the celebrations in Orlando following the train's arrival.

Approx 4 years in construction.

How does it compare with the UK construction times?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It isn't proper high speed.
The old section is 79mph (Miami-West Palm Beach).
The new section is 110mph (West Palm Beach-Cocoa, south of Orlando).
The final run into Orlando is 125mph.
The route is largely an upgrade of the old FECR alignment.
Distance-wise, it's like London-Darlington, 235 miles in 3 hours so similar to ECML/WCML times over that distance.
Traction is diesel-only (Siemens Charger locos), so is not going to exceed 125mph.

 

[stuu]

It's about 40 miles of new construction with nothing much in the way. The station was already there, as was the route through the airport. The Borders railway took 2.5 years to build, as a UK comparison

 

[Beebman]

A video from Simply Railway:

Synopsis:

Today, Florida and North America entered a new era with the opening of the Orlando extension of the very first private intercity passenger service in North America…. Brightline. My previous experience with them was simply outstanding. Now you can travel between Orlando and Miami - car free, carefree with a total respect of the planet! Trains are the future, not planes folks. Mark my words - TRIP INFORMATION - INAUGURAL RIDE - SEPTEMBER 22ND 2023 Railway company: Brightline Train type: SCB 40 and Venture cars (Full Siemens consist) From: Orlando to Miami Time: 3h38 Price: $79 (Smart Class) $149 (Premium)

 

[185]

At 14.20ish into the video, I counted 3 level (grade) crossings within 10 seconds.

Part of the rest of the world getting higher speed passenger rail was getting rid of them for bridges and tunnels. US still has a long way to go.

Also spotted a train covered head to toe in contravision advertising vinyls, including over every window... unbelievable stupidity.

But this is a good start.

 

[AdamWW]

At 14.20ish into the video, I counted 3 level (grade) crossings within 10 seconds.

Part of the rest of the world getting higher speed passenger rail was getting rid of them for bridges and tunnels. US still has a long way to go.

But this is a good start.

We still have level crossings on 125 mph lines, don't we? (Admittedly I presume they are all full barrier).

It's impressive if someone can make a service like this run successfully without subsidy.

(And I do hope the story I read that the State government wanted Bright Line to recompense then for loss of toll road income due to people catching the train wasn't true).

 

[185]

We still have level crossings on 125 mph lines, don't we?

Not sure about other areas, but on the faster lines I'm on, linespeed generally drops to 60-70 over road crossings, with the exception of one farm crossing (110).

State government wanted Bright Line to recompense then for loss of toll road income due to people catching the train

Knowing fruitloop Ron DeSantis, it's quite believable.

 

[Esker-pades]

Press have long reported the number of fatalities on Brightline. Most of these are on level crossings.

Associated Press reported ~1 fatality per month (or 1 per ~15k miles travelled) which they say is the worst on all US railways. LINK: https://apnews.com/article/miami-us...logy-florida-0973281682ed4cc9bbd33a5fd569d5d5

The Miami New Times put together a list of all the fatalities in the run up to this opening. LINK: https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...iami-fort-lauderdale-west-palm-beach-13717396

 

[notverydeep]

Press have long reported the number of fatalities on Brightline. Most of these are on level crossings.

Associated Press reported ~1 fatality per month (or 1 per ~15k miles travelled) which they say is the worst on all US railways. LINK: https://apnews.com/article/miami-us...logy-florida-0973281682ed4cc9bbd33a5fd569d5d5

The Miami New Times put together a list of all the fatalities in the run up to this opening. LINK: https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...iami-fort-lauderdale-west-palm-beach-13717396

So many of their level crossings are monumentally badly designed, often adjacent to junctions between busy roads crossing the railway and a major road parallel to the railway, that seems to just invite queuing over the level crossing and / or confusing the junction signals with those controlling the crossing. Add this to really short times between the trains striking in and reaching the crossing and you have a recipe for the list that is probably more fatalities per year on this one route than the whole of the UK rail network. None of these crossings would meet the relevant standards or be considered acceptable in the UK or Europe.

It is interesting how many of the fatalities listed are pedestrians rather than vehicle occupants, which wasn't my expectation.

 

[Broucek]

Press have long reported the number of fatalities on Brightline. Most of these are on level crossings.

Associated Press reported ~1 fatality per month (or 1 per ~15k miles travelled) which they say is the worst on all US railways. LINK: https://apnews.com/article/miami-us...logy-florida-0973281682ed4cc9bbd33a5fd569d5d5

The Miami New Times put together a list of all the fatalities in the run up to this opening. LINK: https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/...iami-fort-lauderdale-west-palm-beach-13717396

I went to Miami not long after the first bit opened and it was a huge problem. Apparently, people see the warning lights and assume a freight train will lumber through slowly, not something travelling at high speed....

 

[Harpers Tate]

Much the same thing happened in Orlando when the local commuter "SunRail" service began - entirely (I think) over long standing existing tracks. There are some in-cab videos of (for example) queueing motorists so desperate not to lose their place in the queue that they come to a stop right on the running line. The only change here is increased frequency and perhaps train speed.

It's (probably) always some non-rail human being dumb or (in the case on the first day of the new service, according to reports) suicidal. The US does not appear to have quite the same "protect people from their own stupidity" attitude for railways as we do. Keeping dumb people out by extensive fencing (for example) does not seem to be a thing at all.

This is just one little bit of the SunRail (and heavy freight and Amtrak) route (google image). Note the total absence of such measures.

 

[stuu]

Lots of places don't bother - Germany, Switzerland, most of Eastern Europe. They rely on people not being bloody stupid

 

[AdamWW]

It's (probably) always some non-rail human being dumb or (in the case on the first day of the new service, according to reports) suicidal. The US does not appear to have quite the same "protect people from their own stupidity" attitude for railways as we do. Keeping dumb people out by extensive fencing (for example) does not seem to be a thing at all.

On the other hand, in my experience they're a lot keener on controlling what passengers do. E.g. No standing at the back of a train to look out in case....well I don't know but apparently it's a problem....

 

[notverydeep]

On the other hand, in my experience they're a lot keener on controlling what passengers do. E.g. No standing at the back of a train to look out in case....well I don't know but apparently it's a problem....

I was on an Amtrak train in 1994, I can't remember where, but it accessed one of the stations by running past and then propelling the train back into the platform. During this operation, the conductor was anxiously telling all of the passengers to sit down. He was gobsmacked when I told him that in the UK trains were routinely propelled by a locomotive at the rear at 125 mph, with all seats filled and many standing passengers...

 

[northwichcat]

The Borders railway took 2.5 years to build, as a UK comparison

Brightline is privately owned, both the track and trains. How long would Borders have taken if First Group had been expected to finance the infrastructure and the new trains? Would it have ever happened?

At one point it was expected Virgin Group would invest in the project and the operator would be known as Virgin Trains USA, that fell through with Brightline claiming the Virgin wouldn't provide the agreed investment money and Virgin suing Brightline for Brightline terminating the contract.

 

[JonasB]

I went to Miami not long after the first bit opened and it was a huge problem. Apparently, people see the warning lights and assume a freight train will lumber through slowly, not something travelling at high speed....

That sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Regarding speeds and level crossing, in Sweden the highest permitted speed at level crossings is 200 km/h, and there still is a bunch of them.

 

[AdamWW]

I was on an Amtrak train in 1994, I can't remember where, but it accessed one of the stations by running past and then propelling the train back into the platform. During this operation, the conductor was anxiously telling all of the passengers to sit down. He was gobsmacked when I told him that in the UK trains were routinely propelled by a locomotive at the rear at 125 mph, with all seats filled and many standing passengers...

Interesting...because I was surprised recently at how fast VIA rail was willing to propel a train being driven from the back with a couple of people in the leading corridor end with a walky talky (and I presume a brake valve).

(Even more surprisingly I was allowed to stand and look over their shoulders rather than being told to go and sit down, though later on - with the end door shut - I wasn't allowed to stand there and look out of the back).

Amtrak does operate push-pull trains with cab cars, though not quite as fast as 125 mph I think.

 

[ac6000cw]

Amtrak does operate push-pull trains with cab cars, though not quite as fast as 125 mph I think.

Yes, a fair amount of the 'regional' trains are push-pull e.g. I think all of the ones in California, but none of the long-distance ones are, as far as I know. And then there's all the push-pull commuter rail operations.

There's some regional 110mph operation in the the Midwest, but I don't know if any of that is push-pull.

As all of the diesel passenger locos are single-ended, it means they either operate push-pull, top and tail or have to turn the loco or entire train at the terminus (which does happen in places).

 

[AdamWW]

As all of the diesel passenger locos are single-ended, it means they either operate push-pull, top and tail or have to turn the loco or entire train at the terminus (which does happen in places).

And of course the thread that we are now badly deviating from is about push pull trains in North America travelling at up to 125 mph...

 

[hexagon789]

Interesting...because I was surprised recently at how fast VIA rail was willing to propel a train being driven from the back with a couple of people in the leading corridor end with a walky talky (and I presume a brake valve).

The Ocean used to propel all the way from Halifax to Truro to turn and then propel back for a while when the 'wye' at Halifax was undergoing serious alterations. 25mph is the maximum for propelling operations, and at least two Park observation Cars were equipped with ditch lights and a whistle for these propelling operations.

I don't think the Ocean still propels a long distance like this anymore.

Amtrak does operate push-pull trains with cab cars, though not quite as fast as 125 mph I think.

California is definitely 90mph; I think the Keystone Service is up to 125mph propelled but I could be wrong.

 

[AdamWW]

I don't think the Ocean still propels a long distance like this anymore.

No. They've lost the loop in Halifax docks that they used to turn the train on but they run the engines round at Halifax Euopean style. The engines are coupled back to back, you take your chances as to whether you get a forward facing seat or not in the Budd cars, and (sadly) there's no more Park car.

 

[northwichcat]

I went to Miami not long after the first bit opened and it was a huge problem. Apparently, people see the warning lights and assume a freight train will lumber through slowly, not something travelling at high speed....

The photo does remind me of this arrangement at Trafford Park, which was presumably only ever used by slow moving freight.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.475...e0!5s20080801T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

Looks like the line's gone in the latest Streetview update.

 

[Broucek]

The photo does remind me of this arrangement at Trafford Park, which was presumably only ever used by slow moving freight.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.475...e0!5s20080801T000000!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu

Looks like the line's gone in the latest Streetview update.

There is a Railway Ramblers walk of the Trafford Park system next month!

 

[Bald Rick]

Good to see this open at last, and hope the extension to Disney / Tampa comes off.

Not sure about other areas, but on the faster lines I'm on, linespeed generally drops to 60-70 over road crossings, with the exception of one farm crossing (110).

In the U.K. existing level crossings are permitted up to 125 mph. Above 100mph they must be protected with full barriers for public highways.

 

[ac6000cw]

I think the Keystone Service is up to 125mph propelled but I could be wrong.

Based on what it says here on Wikipedia, it's push-pull with a cab control car at 125mph on the NEC and 110mph west of Philadelphia.

And of course the thread that we are now badly deviating from is about push pull trains in North America travelling at up to 125 mph

It's about 'BRIGHTLINE Miami to Orlando' according to the title (so yes, a serious deviation ).

The Brightline trainsets are essentially the same as configuration as an HST - a set of passenger cars with a single-cab diesel loco at each end. Is that a DMU or loco hauled push-pull train ? (I'm in the loco camp!)

Good to see the extension to Orlando open for business.

 

[hexagon789]

Based on what it says here on Wikipedia, it's push-pull with a cab control car at 125mph on the NEC and 110mph west of Philadelphia.

Yes I should've said propelled as with one of our IC225 sets but with control from a driving trailer at the other end.

 

[AdamWW]

It's about 'BRIGHTLINE Miami to Orlando' according to the title (so yes, a serious deviation ).

Quite.

But as you say....

The Brightline trainsets are essentially the same as configuration as an HST - a set of passenger cars with a single-cab diesel loco at each end. Is that a DMU or loco hauled push-pull train ? (I'm in the loco camp!)

I'd forgotten that unlilke everyone else running (or planning to run) Venture trainsets these are topped and tailed rather than push-pull.

If my assumption is correct that the Charger locomotives use conventional couplings to the coaches and that they provide and the coaches use conventional Head End Power, then I'd say more loco hauled than DMU as the locos could go off and haul something else, and something else could haul the coaches.

With an HST it's a bit less clear cut.

 

[ac6000cw]

If my assumption is correct that the Charger locomotives use conventional couplings to the coaches and that they provide and the coaches use conventional Head End Power,

That's my understanding too (I don't think it would make much sense to do anything else).

My assumption is that they went for (120 tonne) locos at both ends partly for better passenger protection in grade crossing accidents, and partly to allow for longer trains in the future (up to seven passenger cars). At the moment the sets have only four passenger cars, so it's 4 x 50 tonne cars plus 2 x 120 tonne locos, so about 1.75 tonnes per passenger if fully loaded.

I wonder what the track forces are like with 30 tonne axle loads at 125mph?

At 14.20ish into the video, I counted 3 level (grade) crossings within 10 seconds.

I notice at least they have full barriers rather than the normal half-barriers, and some at least also have sidewalk barriers.

Anyone know if there are there any grade crossings on the 125mph sections?

 

[AdamWW]

Anyone know if there are there any grade crossings on the 125mph sections?

According to this:

For 111-125 mph: FRA permits crossings only if an "impenetrable barrier" blocks highway traffic when train approaches.

I don't know how they intepret "impenetrable" but it doesn't look as if conventional full barriers will suffice.

I believe we allow foot crossings on 125 mph lines in the UK...

and partly to allow for longer trains in the future (up to seven passenger cars). At the moment the sets have only four passenger cars, so it's 4 x 50 tonne cars plus 2 x 120 tonne locos, so about 1.75 tonnes per passenger if fully loaded.

Yes I don't think anybody else is planning on running "Venture" diesel powered sets at 125 mph.

I don't know what's planned on the North East Corridor - as I recall it used to be only "Metroliner" and then Acela trains that reached 125 mph, not the regular corridor trains. But in any case the new trains will have both the locomotive and a motor carriage powered from the overhead wires.

I'm not even going to try to consider whether that makes them loco hauled stock or a multiple unit - it's an abomination I think never seen before...

 

[ac6000cw]

as I recall it used to be only "Metroliner" and then Acela trains that reached 125 mph

All of the AEM-7 electric locos (RIP...) were 125mph capable, as were the Amfleet passenger cars, so NEC regional & corridor services could run at 125mph if operated with all-Amfleet consists.

I don't know what's planned on the North East Corridor... But in any case the new trains will have both the locomotive and a motor carriage powered from the overhead wires.

I'm not even going to try to consider whether that makes them loco hauled stock or a multiple unit - it's an abomination I think never seen before...

I think that probably (just) counts as a multiple unit, especially as there's going to be some pretty hefty traction power cables connecting loco to adjacent electric power car.

I assume having motors on the (electric) power car, with power also fed to the motors on the (diesel) loco is to provide much better performance on the NEC, to match the other all-electric trains on the route.