British Airways

[YorkRailFan]

BA has acquired Boeing's Maintenance Repair and Overhaul (MRO) facility at Gatwick:

British Airways has announced it is to acquire the Boeing hangar facility and MRO (maintenance, repair and overhaul) business at Gatwick in a move that will secure jobs at the site and expand BA’s presence at this key airport.

It will ultimately benefit BA customers by bringing additional skills, expertise and facilities into the business which will help to support the BA operation.

This transaction sees the airline create a new wholly-owned engineering subsidiary called British Airways Engineering Gatwick (BAEG) which will join BA’s existing engineering operations in South Wales (BAEW) and Glasgow (BAMG). The colleagues employed by Boeing who work at the facility will, subject to an employee information and consultation process, be transferred to the new subsidiary in Q2 of this year.

This is a significant investment for British Airways and forms part of the airline’s strategy to expand its engineering operation. Longer-term, it's expected the carrier will recruit additional colleagues and grow this new facility at Gatwick. British Airways’ existing engineering operation at Gatwick is a vital part of the airline’s family, and its role and capability as a key engineering hub or ‘line station’ in the airline's network will be enhanced with the hangar now under British Airways ownership.

British Airways Chief Technical Officer, Andy Best, said: “Today’s announcement will help us to be the very best in the business by bringing in the skills and expertise of former Boeing colleagues and adding a large, modern hangar to our portfolio of Engineering facilities. It will support the reliability of our entire fleet, which is good news for our customers and colleagues.

“We’re proud of our Gatwick operation and this will give us a stronger presence which underlines our commitment to the airport.”

”I’d like to welcome our new colleagues to British Airways, including highly-skilled and experienced Licensed Aircraft Engineers. I’m delighted that, subject to consultation, they will be joining the BA family and I hope to be recruiting more people in the future.”

Taking over the Boeing facility will significantly boost British Airways’ engineering operation at Gatwick, enabling it to continue to carry out minor maintenance on 777 aircraft at the airport. This increased capacity will allow BA to in-source some scheduled heavy maintenance work on its A320/321 fleet. Additionally, it will enhance its capacity to carry out unscheduled repair work, as well as providing additional maintenance resilience, and relieving capacity challenges at other locations across our network. Carrying out more 777 and A320/A321 maintenance at Gatwick will reduce the need to ferry these aircraft to other operational bases, which supports our commitments to BA’s wider sustainability goals.

British Airways to acquire Boeing’s Gatwick MRO hangar facility, securing jobs and expanding its presence at the airport

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mediacentre.britishairways.com

Sounds like a sound move, fewer ferry flights is better for the environment and lowers costs for the airline.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Is that the former British Caledonian maintenance centre - which British Airways moved out of not long after taking over British Caledonian...?

 

[Ted633]

Is that the former British Caledonian maintenance centre - which British Airways moved out of not long after taking over British Caledonian...?

No. It’s the new hangar that Boeing built a few years back. They setup a maintenance area there primary for Norwegian Longhaul. However, that all fell apart and there has been very limited work available for Boeing, funnily enough mostly on BA 777 & 787 aircraft. A takeover has been on the cards for a while.
I‘m involved in the scheduled checks of the 777 fleet which currently have to ferry up to LHR for their maintenance inputs. We’ll be glad to see the back of them!

 

[JCO1406]

4th 788 has gone to CWL for CS refits (G-ZBJD). The first 789 is expected to go at some point during April once the final 2 772s have finished their refits.

 

[rg177]

I'm currently on my first British Airways longhaul flight in Economy to Hong Kong (more morbid curiosity than anything as the rest of the sectors are all Cathay or Qatar) and oh dear. I assumed that the Boeing 787-9 would have had a decent IFE but it's the most naff I've had on any long haul carrier. The seat in front was also collapsed backwards but with some persuasion the person sat in it and myself managed to force it upright. I also have a windowless window seat but that's my fault for not checking what I was selecting properly.

Crew seem friendly enough and the WiFi is at least present and functioning (unlike on Etihad where it once took my money, immediately disconnected and wouldn't come back on) so its hardly a nightmare by any means but I can't say I'm wowed

 

[styles]

I don't find BA awful, but they do appear a bit 'meh' now.

The problem imo is they used to position themselves as a premium airline - bit of a posh service, coat of arms, and what have you. Their offering isn't particularly stand-out any more, but they still try and command those top fares. So occasional customer expectations are reasonably high, then passengers are disappointed by the mediocre service.

I choose them over a budget airline when I'm travelling for work and want lounge space and extra leg room etc to work, but I wouldn't go out of my way to choose them for leisure. Personally had far better experiences with Virgin on long haul flights on the same routes as BA in the past few years.

 

[TravelDream]

a decent IFE but it's the most naff I've had on any long haul carrier

Have to disagree with you there.

No particularly a BA fan, but BA has one of the better IFE products on their long-haul fleet.

Admittedly, the 787-8/9 fleet has the inferior Thales system vs. the Panasonic system on other fleets, but it's still decent.

There are certainly a lot worse. I used to travel fairly frequently by Aeroflot from London to East Asia (allowance was up to direct flight price and Aeroflot premium economy was usually cheaper than that). Try a couple of films and the last two episodes of Friends as your IFE. BA was and is miles ahead.

What did Cathay have that BA didn't (or even Qatar which admittedly has a wider selection)?

 

[rg177]

Have to disagree with you there.

No particularly a BA fan, but BA has one of the better IFE products on their long-haul fleet.

Admittedly, the 787-8/9 fleet has the inferior Thales system vs. the Panasonic system on other fleets, but it's still decent.

There are certainly a lot worse. I used to travel fairly frequently by Aeroflot from London to East Asia (allowance was up to direct flight price and Aeroflot premium economy was usually cheaper than that). Try a couple of films and the last two episodes of Friends as your IFE. BA was and is miles ahead.

What did Cathay have that BA didn't (or even Qatar which admittedly has a wider selection)?

My long haul experiences are with Singapore, Etihad and Virgin Atlantic - all of whom (except Singapore on a rather more antiquated A330 at the time) had screens that'd respond properly to the touch and a much wider selection in my eyes. As you say, the 787s have the Thales system which is probably knocking my view slightly more. The touchscreen is appalling.

On a more positive note, I can't knock the crew. They've been excellent and even doubling up on the alcohol without asking - clearly keen to get everyone off to sleep

 

[Bald Rick]

What did Cathay have that BA didn't

Don’t Cathy have bigger seats / better pitch than BA on a class for class basis in economy and PE?

 

[TravelDream]

My long haul experiences are with Singapore, Etihad and Virgin Atlantic - all of whom (except Singapore on a rather more antiquated A330 at the time) had screens that'd respond properly to the touch and a much wider selection in my eyes. As you say, the 787s have the Thales system which is probably knocking my view slightly more. The touchscreen is appalling.

Sounds like it might be an issue with the system on the plane. The Thales system shouldn't be that bad and the touchscreens have been fine when I've used them.

Don’t Cathy have bigger seats / better pitch than BA on a class for class basis in economy and PE?

Always found Cathay to be very meh in economy to be honest. I saw that as someone who lived in Hong Kong for many years and who has flown them many times.

Cathay does have a good business service and their lounges in Hong Kong are/ were excellent, but that isn't really relevant to the post above.

CX does list their pitch as 32'' vs. BA's 31'', but I think the difference in imperceptible myself.

Seat width varies, but there's no massive difference.. BA and CX were both 3-3-3 on the 777 fleet and both are moving to 3-4-3. The A350s are 3-3-3 so no difference on that fleet. 3-3-3 on the 787 is fairly narrow, but no different to 3-4-3 on a 777.

 

[Cross City]

I don't find BA awful, but they do appear a bit 'meh' now.

This is every airline nowadays, at least in economy class in Europe, The Americas and MENA.

Ryanair, BA, Emirates, EasyJet, Air France, Lufty, KLM... All functionally identical economy products on identical aircraft.

Anyone who thinks BA are better than EasyJet but worse than Emirates, and that Ryanair are worse than KLM but better than Wizz is just lying to themselves.

 

[Ted633]

The THALES system can be a tad slow to respond, especially when you compare to modern devices. Still not a bad system, but the Panasonic system is far superior.
It was only 2 or 3 years back the last of the Rockwell-Collins equipped aircraft were modified. Now that was an antiquated system!

 

[JCO1406]

Posted on FlyerTalk

The planned retirements for this year are:

G-MIDT - Exiting 12th March 2025
G-EUOA - Exiting March 2025
G-EUPY - Exiting March 2025
G-GATH - Exiting June 2025
G-GATJ - Exiting July 2025
G-MIDO - Exiting July 2025
G-EUPZ - Exiting July 2025
G-EUOE - Exiting September 2025
G-EUOF - Exiting September 2025
G-EUPG - Exiting September 2025
G-EUPW - Exiting September 2025
G-EUOG - Exiting October 2025
G-EUPK - Exiting November 2025
G-EUPD - Exiting November 2025
G-EUPJ - Exiting December 2025

There are expected to be at least 11 new deliveries this year, plus the deliveries from previous months which will help cover the loss of these frames.

 

[Watershed]

BA 'mainline' have been so tight on A32x availability recently that they've resorted to leasing back some of the frames they transferred to Euroflyer.

These, in turn, are being covered by Titan Airways wet leases for Euroflyer - no doubt costing a princely sum. So it all seems rather short-sighted, and based on optimistic delivery estimates.

The old G-EUOx frames lack plug sockets and WiFi, so should be prioritised for the earliest withdrawal if they are not going to be retro-fitted - but BA seem in no hurry to retire them. Sadly that's fairly typical of their finance-led mindset.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Posted on FlyerTalk

The planned retirements for this year are:

G-MIDT - Exiting 12th March 2025
G-EUOA - Exiting March 2025
G-EUPY - Exiting March 2025
G-GATH - Exiting June 2025
G-GATJ - Exiting July 2025
G-MIDO - Exiting July 2025
G-EUPZ - Exiting July 2025
G-EUOE - Exiting September 2025
G-EUOF - Exiting September 2025
G-EUPG - Exiting September 2025
G-EUPW - Exiting September 2025
G-EUOG - Exiting October 2025
G-EUPK - Exiting November 2025
G-EUPD - Exiting November 2025
G-EUPJ - Exiting December 2025

There are expected to be at least 11 new deliveries this year, plus the deliveries from previous months which will help cover the loss of these frames.

I see G-EUPJ is listed - that's the one in the BEA livery...

Two of those others listed I've been on; G-EUPY and G-EUOE.

 

[JCO1406]

I see G-EUPJ is listed - that's the one in the BEA livery...

Two of those others listed I've been on; G-EUPY and G-EUOE.

Yes, EUPJ is the retro livery

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Seen here at Heathrow at 21.36 on 27th July 2024...

 

[RailWonderer]

I'm not sure if anybody's mentioned this but BA's pricing is all over the place. London - Vienna the return is £100-150 but BA charge £200-600 and Rome is the same. On some other routes they are the same and even slightly cheaper than Ryanair. I've never understood why BA's pricing is so radically up and down compared to other airlines.

 

[camflyer]

I'm not sure if anybody's mentioned this but BA's pricing is all over the place. London - Vienna the return is £100-150 but BA charge £200-600 and Rome is the same. On some other routes they are the same and even slightly cheaper than Ryanair. I've never understood why BA's pricing is so radically up and down compared to other airlines.

I've always thought that airline pricing is its own branch of hyperdimensional mathematics which mere mortals aren't designed to understand.

 

[najaB]

I've always thought that airline pricing is its own branch of hyperdimensional mathematics which mere mortals aren't designed to understand.

Yup. They invented dynamic yield management which means that prices change minute to minute - you can have an entire aircraft full of people making the same trip and few if any will have paid the same fare.

 

[JN114]

Tech question BA -related perhaps someone here will have the answer to…

Euroflyer flights fly with the “Griffin” callsign with ATC rather than “Speedbird”.

Does that carry over to the domestic Gatwick operation? Or are they still flown as “Shuttle”?

 

[Watershed]

Tech question BA -related perhaps someone here will have the answer to…

Euroflyer flights fly with the “Griffin” callsign with ATC rather than “Speedbird”.

Does that carry over to the domestic Gatwick operation? Or are they still flown as “Shuttle”?

They're operated - for a few more months - by BA 'mainline', with the aircraft flying in an 'M' pattern (LHR-GLA, overnight, then GLA-LGW-GLA-LHR). Over the summer they'll be operated by wet leased Emerald Airlines ATR 72s - no thanks!

The crew that do the GLA-LGW-GLA-LHR legs stay overnight in GLA, having flown up on an earlier flight from LHR; vice versa with the crew who fly the aircraft up to GLA.

'Mainline' use the "Shuttle" callsign for domestic flights, so those flights are operated under that callsign.

For a while you also had CityFlyer doing a similar pattern with EDI (LCY-EDI-LGW-EDI-LCY) to get better use out of the fleet during the ~24 hour period between Saturday and Sunday lunchtime where LCY is closed each weekend. So you also had their callsign alongside Griffin, and Speedbird for the long haul LGW operation (which still runs under the 'mainline' certificate).

To add to the confusion, 'mainline' have temporarily leased back a few Euroflyer aircraft. So you could end up with an aircraft that claims to be "operated by Euroflyer", which is in fact operated by 'mainline' and uses the Shuttle callsign. Makes the railway almost look simple

 

[JN114]

They're operated - for a few more months - by BA 'mainline', with the aircraft flying in an 'M' pattern (LHR-GLA, overnight, then GLA-LGW-GLA-LHR). Over the summer they'll be operated by wet leased Emerald Airlines ATR 72s - no thanks!

The crew that do the GLA-LGW-GLA-LHR legs stay overnight in GLA, having flown up on an earlier flight from LHR; vice versa with the crew who fly the aircraft up to GLA.

'Mainline' use the "Shuttle" callsign for domestic flights, so those flights are operated under that callsign.

For a while you also had CityFlyer doing a similar pattern with EDI (LCY-EDI-LGW-EDI-LCY) to get better use out of the fleet during the ~24 hour period between Saturday and Sunday lunchtime where LCY is closed each weekend. So you also had their callsign alongside Griffin, and Speedbird for the long haul LGW operation (which still runs under the 'mainline' certificate).

To add to the confusion, 'mainline' have temporarily leased back a few Euroflyer aircraft. So you could end up with an aircraft that claims to be "operated by Euroflyer", which is in fact operated by 'mainline' and uses the Shuttle callsign. Makes the railway almost look simple

Thank you for the very detailed answer!

 

[Airline Man]

Yup. They invented dynamic yield management which means that prices change minute to minute - you can have an entire aircraft full of people making the same trip and few if any will have paid the same fare.

I did ’revenue management’ for BA for around twenty years! Yes, it was me that decided how far to overbook flights. In the department individuals were each responsible for a small number of routes where we knew the characteristics of each route booking wise.

I wouldn’t mind doing the same for a train operating company and if anyone in the know is reading this I'm available!

 

[eoff]

'Mainline' use the "Shuttle"

Ah "Shuttle"...
Those were the days...

The Story Of British Airways' Walk-On 'Shuttle' Domestic Flights

49 years ago, BA introduced a new way for UK travelers to commute.

simpleflying.com

Passengers were only required to show up at the airport ten minutes (imagine that) before departure and were guaranteed a seat. If the plane was full, a spare aircraft was on standby for the extra passengers. British Airways deployed a fleet of Hawker Siddeley Trident 1s with 100 seats on the services.

I remember a later form where there was definitely food, the BA cooked breakfast, orange juice, tea/coffee, bacon, black-pudding, 'omelete', mushroom, sausage...
Seemed better than it was at 0700.

 

[Butts]

Ah "Shuttle"...
Those were the days...



I remember a later form where there was definitely food, the BA cooked breakfast, orange juice, tea/coffee, bacon, black-pudding, 'omelete', mushroom, sausage...
Seemed better than it was at 0700.

Even better you could smoke onboard!!

 

[ainsworth74]

Even better you could smoke onboard!!

Better for some, most of us are much happier without being subjected to others smoke thank you very much!

 

[Snow1964]

G-MIDT a former Midland A320 was flown to St Athan (near Cardiff) for scrapping. That leaves just G-MIDO of G-MIDx planes, which is expected to finish in the summer.

Think a few more narrow bodies are leaving in next few weeks / months too in G-EUxx (A319 type) and G-GATx series (A320) These are all about 23-24 years old.

Long haul planes (which do less take off and landings) tend to longer and there are some BA 777-200s that will be nearer 30 years old at withdrawal.

Brand new A320neo registered G-TTSx have already started to arrive, and A321neo registered G-TNEx will be entering service in next few months too.

Although not exactly 1 for 1 replacement, the new neo replacements upgrade capacity as a A320neo is 180 seats and A321neo is 220 seats in BA spec. The A319s are only 143 seats, and A320s 177 seats (few have 1-3 seats more).

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm not sure if anybody's mentioned this but BA's pricing is all over the place. London - Vienna the return is £100-150 but BA charge £200-600 and Rome is the same. On some other routes they are the same and even slightly cheaper than Ryanair. I've never understood why BA's pricing is so radically up and down compared to other airlines.

With legacy airlines, they have a lot more to consider than just point to point pricing. For instance, it might be that they expect a lot of long haul traffic to end their journey in Vienna at that time, so they want to price short haul travellers out of the market, especially if there's something on like a major international trade fair. The price then might go down once they've sold most of their tickets for long haul flights that would connect onto that London-Vienna service.

With Ryanair, it's much simpler: they set their prices based on expected demand and the actual cost of operating the trip (as well as things like the profile of the passengers), and then the algorithms adjust the price upwards and downwards according to actual sales. It's why you can sometimes pick up some real bargains (like my recent trips to Valencia for less than 50 quid return from Wrocław) at short notice.

I remember having a chat years ago with one guy who worked in revenue management for Ryanair, and they often sold a fortune in booze on those 1p flights to Dublin. From what I understand, the massive fall in alcohol consumption among younger people is one reason why LCC fares have gone up considerably from those days.

 

[TravelDream]

I remember having a chat years ago with one guy who worked in revenue management for Ryanair, and they often sold a fortune in booze on those 1p flights to Dublin.

I have wondered about the effect this has on airline route selection.

Having flown Ryanair many many times, some routes do far better for onboard sales than others.

I have been on several a November (or similarly off season) flight to random city Poland, and the crew couldn't have sold a couple of hundred quid for the whole flight.

I've also been on flights to the Canaries where the bar, sandwiches, paninis etc. etc. have all sold out with the crew easily being well into four figures for the flight.

I imagine BA doesn't take onboard sales into account, but for airlines like Ryanair, it can make a significant difference.

With legacy airlines, they have a lot more to consider than just point to point pricing. For instance, it might be that they expect a lot of long haul traffic to end their journey in Vienna at that time, so they want to price short haul travellers out of the market, especially if there's something on like a major international trade fair.

That's really complex yield management and above most of us mere mortals. What the airline hopes to do is look for the highest yielding traffic out there based on the yield they can command. Of course, big transfer heavy airlines need to balance their networks too.