British Transport Police - caution or interview under caution? Confused!

[SillyTraveller]

I think you need to wait at least 4 weeks to see if you hear anything from them in writing to be honest before there is any point you writing to them. So far you have only had a week.

Obv this is not easy as it is stressing you out, but best advice I think I can give is for you to try not to think about it any more for a few weeks.

Of course the person speaking to your husband can not gaurantee it will not go direct to court, so will have to say that, but I think every chance is that they will write to you asking for your side of the story.

I too can of course never say never, but there was a thread on here a while back about cases at court for fare evasion and reported in the local paper of the area concerned with a list of the names and addresses of those being prosecuted. I searched on line for a few of the names. For each one I found they clearly were people 'well known to the courts' with frequent offences and court appearances for all sorts of things like drugs / knife crime / other fare evasion etc etc. All people who I am sure would have ignored the process and not engaged with it and then ultimately ended up in court (where they probably also did not engage / not turn up) and almost certainly then found guilty in their absence. This is so far from your circumstances as to have no comparison really.

I think you just need to wait a few more weeks.

Unfortunately the wheels move very slowly on this sort of thing.

I know it’s easy for me to say this but you need to try and forget about it for now and get on with your life. There is nothing you can do until the letter arrives.

Thank you. I guess I need to learn to live with the not knowing at the moment. I have seeked some help via a union and engaged in some counselling so I hope that will help me in the meantime.

Also discussed the need to tell work and/or my regulatory body and I have been told that I do not have any obligation to do so and it would not go against me in any way if I did not tell them until after a charge (if this isn't settled out of court). If it is settled out of court, I am under no obligation to tell them either. I also was told that due to the nature of the offence, I would unlikely be struck off or lose my job because it is not directly putting patients at risk.

I think you need to wait at least 4 weeks to see if you hear anything from them in writing to be honest before there is any point you writing to them. So far you have only had a week.

Obv this is not easy as it is stressing you out, but best advice I think I can give is for you to try not to think about it any more for a few weeks.

Of course the person speaking to your husband can not gaurantee it will not go direct to court, so will have to say that, but I think every chance is that they will write to you asking for your side of the story.

I too can of course never say never, but there was a thread on here a while back about cases at court for fare evasion and reported in the local paper of the area concerned with a list of the names and addresses of those being prosecuted. I searched on line for a few of the names. For each one I found they clearly were people 'well known to the courts' with frequent offences and court appearances for all sorts of things like drugs / knife crime / other fare evasion etc etc. All people who I am sure would have ignored the process and not engaged with it and then ultimately ended up in court (where they probably also did not engage / not turn up) and almost certainly then found guilty in their absence. This is so far from your circumstances as to have no comparison really.

I think you just need to wait a few more weeks.

Thank you. Yes, I think the fear of the unknown is the worst. The man at SE was very helpful but yes could not say because obviously he does not know either. He said that SE's intention is not to prosecute and ruin people's lives as that is not what they are there to do. So I will remain hopeful.

That's interesting about those cases and reassures me. Like you say, I don't fit into that category at all so that's one thing I have going for me. I just worry about the scale of time more than anything.

I will keep waiting. Thank you again.

Unfortunately the wheels move very slowly on this sort of thing.

I know it’s easy for me to say this but you need to try and forget about it for now and get on with your life. There is nothing you can do until the letter arrives.

Thank you Hadders. I will try and do so.

I have contacted my union now too. They have advised me not to inform my regulatory body until/unless a charge has been given. He said it would not go against me by not telling them in this stage. Same goes with my employer but that I can tell them if I am under emotional distress. They also said that because this is not directly related to patient care and because I don't have any work concerns then it would likely not be raised as fitness to practice.

I have been totally and utterly stupid. I have learnt so much from this.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I have contacted my union now too. They have advised me not to inform my regulatory body until/unless a charge has been given. He said it would not go against me by not telling them in this stage. Same goes with my employer but that I can tell them if I am under emotional distress. They also said that because this is not directly related to patient care and because I don't have any work concerns then it would likely not be r

This sounds to me like good advice from someone who knows, so you might do well to take it.

You might know how supportive your employer is when staff (i.e. you) are finding things difficult. Since it looks as if there won't be any negative consequences if your employer finds out, and if your employer will be supportive, then it might be worth now talking to them. If nothing else, it will explain to them why you are stressed

 

[SillyTraveller]

This sounds to me like good advice from someone who knows, so you might do well to take it.

You might know how supportive your employer is when staff (i.e. you) are finding things difficult. Since it looks as if there won't be any negative consequences if your employer finds out, and if your employer will be supportive, then it might be worth now talking to them. If nothing else, it will explain to them why you are stressed

Thanks Fawkes Cat.

Definitely will take their advice. He said that if it goes to court then I would need to let them know (no question of a doubt), and that they would likely speak to my employer to see if there are any concerns about me (there are not) and if they agree then it would likely never go to a formal NMC hearing. He also said that people in the profession do things that are a lot worse (not saying what I have done is not serious) and are not struck off if they are open, reflective and remorseful.

But yes, I will definitely consider discussing with my manager. We get on very well and she is brilliant. I have some time off now so I have some time to get my head around things so I will see how I feel when I go back to work.

Thank you.

 

[CrispyUK]

I know easier said than done, but make any notes now that would be useful whilst things are fresh in your mind then try and put it out of your head until you hear from SE. You can’t do anything to change things in the interim (other than of course ensuring you have the correct tickets for any further travel) so it is not worth stressing yourself out further.

Once you have heard from SE you will have a reference number for future communications from them, until you have that it’s going to difficult to get any specific information by contacting them and it will just confuse the process.

 

[SillyTraveller]

I know easier said than done, but make any notes now that would be useful whilst things are fresh in your mind then try and put it out of your head until you hear from SE. You can’t do anything to change things in the interim (other than of course ensuring you have the correct tickets for any further travel) so it is not worth stressing yourself out further.

Once you have heard from SE you will have a reference number for future communications from them, until you have that it’s going to difficult to get any specific information by contacting them and it will just confuse the process.

Makes sense, thanks. It’s in my head quite clearly but I think writing it down will not only be beneficial but also maybe might help my mental health, too.

This question is to everyone, please; if they send a court summons in the first instance without a letter asking me to explain my story, can I still ask for an out of court settlement?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

This question is to everyone, please; if they send a court summons in the first instance without a letter asking me to explain my story, can I still ask for an out of court settlement?

Yes, you can. It’s even possible to attend court for your hearing and agree an out of court settlement with the prosecutor before going into court for the case to be heard.

There’s never any guarantee that the railway will let you have a settlement - but you can always ask for one.

 

[SillyTraveller]

Yes, you can. It’s even possible to attend court for your hearing and agree an out of court settlement with the prosecutor before going into court for the case to be heard.

There’s never any guarantee that the railway will let you have a settlement - but you can always ask for one.

Thank you. I fear I’ve put myself in a tricky situation by telling the truth as it’s an easy case to prosecute. I can’t undo that now & I thought honesty was the best policy. I can’t change it now anyway so no point dwelling on that I guess.

 

[6Gman]

Thank you. I fear I’ve put myself in a tricky situation by telling the truth as it’s an easy case to prosecute. I can’t undo that now & I thought honesty was the best policy. I can’t change it now anyway so no point dwelling on that I guess.

I think you could have been in a trickier situation by trying to evade the truth. You've done the right thing (in my view) by being honest. Both in terms of the railway response and your future career.

 

[SillyTraveller]

I think you could have been in a trickier situation by trying to evade the truth. You've done the right thing (in my view) by being honest. Both in terms of the railway response and your future career.

That’s reassuring, thank you.

Thanks to all for the input. Definitely going to try & settle my mind. What will be will be, I’ve learnt from it. I am ashamed of myself. I want to put it right & move on. I will never ever do it again, in actual fact the thought of getting on the train - WITH a valid ticket - is giving me panic attacks, which is awful but my own doing. So if any of you work for SE & see a person having a panic attack on the trains, it might be me.

I feel like a total and utter idiot.

 

[furlong]

Write everything down in one place if you didn't already, then put it to one side and stop thinking about it until the letter arrives. If your brain does think about it, ask yourself "is that something I already wrote down?" - if it isn't then add it to those writings - if it is already written down, tell yourself it's OK if you forget about it now because you have a written record which you can refer back to later if you need to. Then return to living your normal life. When the letter comes you will get a settlement if you engage with the company just like almost every other thread you can see on here involving that same train company. Simply put, the train company has better things to do than waste its own time and the time of the courts prosecuting customers who demonstrate that they have already learned their lesson and who pay compensation.

 

[WesternLancer]

That’s reassuring, thank you.

Thanks to all for the input. Definitely going to try & settle my mind. What will be will be, I’ve learnt from it. I am ashamed of myself. I want to put it right & move on. I will never ever do it again, in actual fact the thought of getting on the train - WITH a valid ticket - is giving me panic attacks, which is awful but my own doing. So if any of you work for SE & see a person having a panic attack on the trains, it might be me.

I feel like a total and utter idiot.

Not sure if it has been mentioned before in this thread, but the railway has a reasonable financial incentive to settle with people, esp if they believe you will not do it again (and pretty clear to me you certainly won't) - and that is that the railway almost certainly gets more money from your settlement than if they take you to court, and it will cost them more to take you to court too as they would have fees to pay, so that is a reason why there is a strong possibility you can agree a settlement. Their objective is not really to give people court records, but to secure the money they are owed, cover their costs, and prevent people evading fares in the future.

 

[SillyTraveller]

Write everything down in one place if you didn't already, then put it to one side and stop thinking about it until the letter arrives. If your brain does think about it, ask yourself "is that something I already wrote down?" - if it isn't then add it to those writings - if it is already written down, tell yourself it's OK if you forget about it now because you have a written record which you can refer back to later if you need to. Then return to living your normal life. When the letter comes you will get a settlement if you engage with the company just like almost every other thread you can see on here involving that same train company. Simply put, the train company has better things to do than waste its own time and the time of the courts prosecuting customers who demonstrate that they have already learned their lesson and who pay compensation.

That’s a really good tip, thank you. I will do that later. And hopefully what you say about wasting their time is true. The SE man yesterday did say that actually, he said it’s not our intention to take people to court all the time. Hopefully they give me an opportunity to write to them though and not just send a court summons because of the scale of it.

Not sure if it has been mentioned before in this thread, but the railway has a reasonable financial incentive to settle with people, esp if they believe you will not do it again (and pretty clear to me you certainly won't) - and that is that the railway almost certainly gets more money from your settlement than if they take you to court, and it will cost them more to take you to court too as they would have fees to pay, so that is a reason why there is a strong possibility you can agree a settlement. Their objective is not really to give people court records, but to secure the money they are owed, cover their costs, and prevent people evading fares in the future.

I think I read that somewhere. I hope that’s the case & they think like that too. If I’m not known to them, was polite & honest, I really hope that that counts for something like the enforcement officer said it would.

 

[jumble]

Thank you. I fear I’ve put myself in a tricky situation by telling the truth as it’s an easy case to prosecute. I can’t undo that now & I thought honesty was the best policy. I can’t change it now anyway so no point dwelling on that I guess.

I strongly suspect that prosecutions would be much more inclined to settle with someone who behaves honestly rather than telling porkies and giving the impression that they have done nothing wrong as they would probably consider which person is likely to carry on misbehaving .....

 

[AlterEgo]

I strongly suspect that prosecutions would be much more inclined to settle with someone who behaves honestly rather than telling porkies and giving the impression that they have done nothing wrong as they would probably consider which person is likely to carry on misbehaving .....

It is too late for the OP, but wilfully admitting to a significant pattern of offending without being presented of evidence of the same is naive and will end up costing her a lot more money. Let’s not kid ourselves here.

If you’re caught bang to rights, of course, speaking will help you. But if you’ve been doing this for six weeks and you blurt that out when they catch you on one occasion with a short-fare ticket, you’re really better off saying nothing. No comment, other than name and address, and remember you are free to leave at any time, including before you answer any questions whatsoever.

 

[SillyTraveller]

I strongly suspect that prosecutions would be much more inclined to settle with someone who behaves honestly rather than telling porkies and giving the impression that they have done nothing wrong as they would probably consider which person is likely to carry on misbehaving .....

Yes this is how I thought too. I guess it doesn’t make a difference now anyway.

 

[WesternLancer]

It is too late for the OP, but wilfully admitting to a significant pattern of offending without being presented of evidence of the same is naive and will end up costing her a lot more money. Let’s not kid ourselves here.

If you’re caught bang to rights, of course, speaking will help you. But if you’ve been doing this for six weeks and you blurt that out when they catch you on one occasion with a short-fare ticket, you’re really better off saying nothing. No comment, other than name and address, and remember you are free to leave at any time, including before you answer any questions whatsoever.

I sense that what is most important to the OP is putting right what they have done wrong, that involves admitting it, even if that means the train company receive more evaded fares than they may otherwise have known about without that admission. For some people, paying more for what they feel is owed is 'doing the right thing', albeit belatedly, as opposed to being naive. Commendable in my view.

 

[jumble]

It is too late for the OP, but wilfully admitting to a significant pattern of offending without being presented of evidence of the same is naive and will end up costing her a lot more money. Let’s not kid ourselves here.

If you’re caught bang to rights, of course, speaking will help you. But if you’ve been doing this for six weeks and you blurt that out when they catch you on one occasion with a short-fare ticket, you’re really better off saying nothing. No comment, other than name and address, and remember you are free to leave at any time, including before you answer any questions whatsoever.

This is true but fortunately neither the forum nor the OP know what has actually been written down by the RPI and what will be taken into account.

Until the OP receives a letter then everything is in my view unhelpful speculation.


For example

Caught travelling with 60+ oyster. Criminal record?

Hello everyone I am 19 years old who possess a student oyster (but my family paid for only monthly pass during financial reason)(doing a levels) who got a summer internship for 4 weeks. One month ago i have also found an 60+ oyster but i wasnt really using it beforehand as there was no need for...

www.railforums.co.uk

Enko admits to the RPI that they had used a lost 60+ oyster on 5 occasions on being stopped but is only charged for a single bylaw offence which as we know is non recordable
The court therefore sentence on the basis it was a one off and not a repeat offender.
Another example of a prosecuting authority not wanting to ruin someone's life

 

[AlterEgo]

This is true but fortunately neither the forum nor the OP know what has actually been written down by the RPI and what will be taken into account.

Until the OP receives a letter then everything is in my view unhelpful speculation.


For example

Caught travelling with 60+ oyster. Criminal record?

Hello everyone I am 19 years old who possess a student oyster (but my family paid for only monthly pass during financial reason)(doing a levels) who got a summer internship for 4 weeks. One month ago i have also found an 60+ oyster but i wasnt really using it beforehand as there was no need for...

www.railforums.co.uk

Enko admits to the RPI that they had used a lost 60+ oyster on 5 occasions on being stopped but is only charged for a single bylaw offence which as we know is non recordable
The court therefore sentence on the basis it was a one off and not a repeat offender.
Another example of a prosecuting authority not wanting to ruin someone's life

Oh I don’t think this one will get to court, partly because of the OP’s fulsome apologies. It’s just that when they do settle it won’t be for one anytime return plus an admin fee, it’ll potentially be a lot more than that.

We have a responsibility to give good advice, and shutting up and not giving answers will undoubtedly have been the better, lower cost option here. Appreciate it’s retrospective now but it’s a general piece of advice given that all of the posts in this thread are now after the fact, but, in my view, don’t contain the most helpful course of action for anyone who finds themselves similarly caught. Give your correct name and address as is your legal obligation to do so, then leave. Let the train company collect evidence; don’t wilfully give it to them even if you find it therapeutic.

 

[SillyTraveller]

He said that he had been watching lots of people do this for some time so I didn’t see any point in lying for something they already potentially know about. I think that would look a lot worse, especially if they had asked me to prove that I hadn’t done it prior to then. Anyway, what’s done is done now.
Correct about future advice and advising others but I will definitely never ever do this again. It was really unacceptable behaviour.

I hope my integrity (that I was clearly lacking earlier!) & my profuse apologies to the man & engagement will prevent me from going to court. Will see. I am going to try the techniques that some have mentioned here until I get my letter because I’m not in a very good place right now.

Does anyone think that the longer they take to write is because instead they’re trying to get a court date?

 

[jumble]

Oh I don’t think this one will get to court, partly because of the OP’s fulsome apologies. It’s just that when they do settle it won’t be for one anytime return plus an admin fee, it’ll potentially be a lot more than that.

We have a responsibility to give good advice, and shutting up and not giving answers will undoubtedly have been the better, lower cost option here. Appreciate it’s retrospective now but it’s a general piece of advice given that all of the posts in this thread are now after the fact, but, in my view, don’t contain the most helpful course of action for anyone who finds themselves similarly caught. Give your correct name and address as is your legal obligation to do so, then leave. Let the train company collect evidence; don’t wilfully give it to them even if you find it therapeutic.

I agree 100%
In any legal interview the Interviewer is never your friend.

I have in my life avoided trouble with authorities a good few times by keeping my mouth shut even when they could have taken action

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Does anyone think that the longer they take to write is because instead they’re trying to get a court date?

No, that doesn’t follow. The bad news is that the case doesn’t have to be heard within six months - it just needs to be reported to the court by then. The good news is that you can’t read anything into how long it takes for Southeastern to make a decision - so (I know, easy to say but hard to do) there’s no reason to be any more stressed tomorrow than you are today.

 

[SillyTraveller]

No, that doesn’t follow. The bad news is that the case doesn’t have to be heard within six months - it just needs to be reported to the court by then. The good news is that you can’t read anything into how long it takes for Southeastern to make a decision - so (I know, easy to say but hard to do) there’s no reason to be any more stressed tomorrow than you are today.

Thanks for this info.

 

[WesternLancer]

Does anyone think that the longer they take to write is because instead they’re trying to get a court date?

No, very much doubt it. Will almost certainly be down to how many staff they have to process cases and how many cases they intercepted at any one time. For example, I would suggest that as travel is increasing post lock down they will be getting more cases to deal with, but staff may have left over the last year and not been replaced (due to falls in income from travel etc, the train company may be holding vacancies as they arise from natural staff turnover for example). In such scenarios the time taken to write to you will be delayed.

 

[SillyTraveller]

No, very much doubt it. Will almost certainly be down to how many staff they have to process cases and how many cases they intercepted at any one time. For example, I would suggest that as travel is increasing post lock down they will be getting more cases to deal with, but staff may have left over the last year and not been replaced (due to falls in income from travel etc, the train company may be holding vacancies as they arise from natural staff turnover for example). In such scenarios the time taken to write to you will be delayed.

Ok thank you. I am just so worried about missing it / getting lost in the post so I think I am overthinking it.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Honestly, relax.

You really need to step back for a second and calm it a little!!

You are not going to be going to court unless you've not told us the full story. Everything you have said so far is pretty routine.

It is in nobody's interest for this to be prosecuted at this stage. Once they've worked out what has actually happened, they'll do a bit of investigation (check data feeds etc) to work out exactly what you have been up to. This takes time.

They will then write to you, asking for your version of events, and as long as it matches with what they know / have found out, they'll send you a (fairly hefty in your case) figure to resolve the matter out of court.

This whole thing is going to take a couple of months to put to bed once and for all, so you'll just stress yourself unnecessarily if you continue worrying.

I would personally see it more akin to waiting for a big bill to come through the letterbox, and nothing more.

It's not going to get lost in the post, but even if it did, and you ended up going to court, you would just take a wad of cash (cleared funds) with you and pay the settlement (probably higher still at that point) just before the hearing, and the matter would be dropped. This isn't ideal in other ways though as certain records are created at this point, but you'd still avoid a conviction.

 

[SillyTraveller]

Honestly, relax.

You really need to step back for a second and calm it a little!!

You are not going to be going to court unless you've not told us the full story. Everything you have said so far is pretty routine.

It is in nobody's interest for this to be prosecuted at this stage. Once they've worked out what has actually happened, they'll do a bit of investigation (check data feeds etc) to work out exactly what you have been up to. This takes time.

They will then write to you, asking for your version of events, and as long as it matches with what they know / have found out, they'll send you a (fairly hefty in your case) figure to resolve the matter out of court.

This whole thing is going to take a couple of months to put to bed once and for all, so you'll just stress yourself unnecessarily if you continue worrying.

I would personally see it more akin to waiting for a big bill to come through the letterbox, and nothing more.

It's not going to get lost in the post, but even if it did, and you ended up going to court, you would just take a wad of cash (cleared funds) with you and pay the settlement (probably higher still at that point) just before the hearing, and the matter would be dropped. This isn't ideal in other ways though as certain records are created at this point, but you'd still avoid a conviction.

This is what my family are saying too. They’re like you’ve done wrong, you know you have, you’ve put your hands up, you’ve owned it, now stop. I feel like I will make myself ill the way I feel. I’ve hardly eaten since, or slept. I’ve lost half a stone since the event & I don’t have weight to lose. Honestly, I feel like if anyone will give me a hard time it’s myself - nobody is harder on me than me. Not even a court! Probably why I’m beating myself up so much.
How do you even be a criminal in real life?! I couldn’t live with the guilt - I said to my family don’t ever ask me to be an alibi as I couldn’t live with it (haha - obviously I am kidding) When I was about 5 I remember accidentally hitting a caravan on my bike and I knocked the window out of it. I spent days not sleeping and eating because I was so scared I was going to get into trouble. It’s me!

Thanks guys. I appreciate the honesty & the reality check. I’m on the train home now & it makes me so so panicky (I have a valid ticket OBVIOUSLY) but feel very close to a panic attack right now. But I will read the replies that reassure me, like this one (albeit a big bill but no more than what I deserve) & maybe to some extent I need to give myself a break. I’ve totally been wrong, we make mistakes and make poor decisions and poor judgement. As I said before, I think I’m just not in the right frame of mind post working in a really high acuity area for Covid. I’ve been having counselling since then, which isn’t a sob story to you guys & neither is it an excuse but maybe it makes me more human.

Also will they be able to view my transactions via the machine so they can work it out, or will I need to show them on my app?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

This is what my family are saying too. They’re like you’ve done wrong, you know you have, you’ve put your hands up, you’ve owned it, now stop. I feel like I will make myself ill the way I feel. I’ve hardly eaten since, or slept. I’ve lost half a stone since the event & I don’t have weight to lose. Honestly, I feel like if anyone will give me a hard time it’s myself - nobody is harder on me than me. Not even a court! Probably why I’m beating myself up so much.
How do you even be a criminal in real life?! I couldn’t live with the guilt - I said to my family don’t ever ask me to be an alibi as I couldn’t live with it (haha - obviously I am kidding) When I was about 5 I remember accidentally hitting a caravan on my bike and I knocked the window out of it. I spent days not sleeping and eating because I was so scared I was going to get into trouble. It’s me!

Thanks guys. I appreciate the honesty & the reality check. I’m on the train home now & it makes me so so panicky (I have a valid ticket OBVIOUSLY) but feel very close to a panic attack right now. But I will read the replies that reassure me, like this one (albeit a big bill but no more than what I deserve) & maybe to some extent I need to give myself a break. I’ve totally been wrong, we make mistakes and make poor decisions and poor judgement. As I said before, I think I’m just not in the right frame of mind post working in a really high acuity area for Covid. I’ve been having counselling since then, which isn’t a sob story to you guys & neither is it an excuse but maybe it makes me more human.

Also will they be able to view my transactions via the machine so they can work it out, or will I need to show them on my app?

If you bought via an app, they'll be able to work it out themselves I'm sure, don't volunteer any extra information they don't already have!

 

[SillyTraveller]

Still nothing in the post. How long would you give it until you write to them? I don’t want to miss anything. I have taken into account all the helpful comments here but my anxiety is so bad it’s affecting my quality of life now.

 

[Hadders]

Still nothing in the post. How long would you give it until you write to them? I don’t want to miss anything. I have taken into account all the helpful comments here but my anxiety is so bad it’s affecting my quality of life now.

I'm afraid it's a waiting game. We have had reports of letters taking a few months to arrive.

I know it's easy to say but you need to put this to the back of your mind and get on with your life. There is nothing you can do until until the letter arrives.

 

[SillyTraveller]

I'm afraid it's a waiting game. We have had reports of letters taking a few months to arrive.

I know it's easy to say but you need to put this to the back of your mind and get on with your life. There is nothing you can do until until the letter arrives.

Maybe it’s because they are looking into it so it’s taking a bit longer. It’s so hard to carry on with life. Equally to not be angry with myself because it’s all my own doing too. I am renowned for beating myself up for anything however minor or major it is & so you can imagine how much I am beating myself up for this.