BT Copper to Fibre

[Energy]

Does that mean they will not have to set up any internet accounts. If so, that was the biggest worry that both those women expressed to me.

By internet accounts do they mean paying extra for internet from BT or setting up accounts for other online companies?

If it's the latter then they won't need to.

If it's the former then BT has given no indication of the landline-only cost rising, while they may try and upsell on the phone they can still provide a landline-only digital voice service at the current price.




Technicalities - Openreach provides a low-speed (0.5mbps), low-price tier designed for landline-only customers. While they will technically have an internet connection the service will appear to the customer as landline only still.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By internet accounts do they mean paying extra for internet from BT or setting up accounts for other online companies?

If it's the latter then they won't need to.

If it's the former then BT has given no indication of the landline-only cost rising, while they may try and upsell on the phone they can still provide a landline-only digital voice service at the current price.

Technicalities - Openreach provides a low-speed (0.5mbps), low-price tier designed for landline-only customers. While they will technically have an internet connection the service will appear to the customer as landline only still.

I really must express myself better when making postings. Neither of those women (maiden ladies) have ever had any type of internet, nor any type of mobile phones. They are the most basic users of any modern technology, with only a landline. They are skilled in embroidery.

Your final sentence still implies they will have to pay for something they do not do a present as a result of a decision taken by BT.

 

[Energy]

Your final sentence still implies they will have to pay for something they do not do a present as a result of a decision taken by BT.

The final sentence was technicalities, it can be ignored.

As far as the end user is concerned it's a normal landline only service at the same price but they have a box in between the line and their phone and they need to tell BT if they are vulnerable so BT provide a battery backup.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I really must express myself better when making postings. Neither of those women (maiden ladies) have ever had any type of internet, nor any type of mobile phones. They are the most basic users of any modern technology, with only a landline. They are skilled in embroidery.

Your final sentence still implies they will have to pay for something they do not do a present as a result of a decision taken by BT.

That was originally what BT were planning but they will offer a copper only landline (SOTAP) with the VOIP part at the exchange although even if they have one of the basic voice only packages using a router, it would cost the same as they pay now.

As a few people have mentioned, this isn't really a 'decision' by BT but something they have to do as they can't keep running obsolete and unsupported equipment and other countries have either shut down these systems or also planning their retirement.

 

[lookapigeon]

If it is anything like Horsham, we now have three fibre networks laid to the end of our drive. Openreach (BT/EE), Virgin and Cityfibre (O2). Predictably we are receiving sales visits from these companies engouraging us to join their system.

I would guess that if you wish to use Plusnet then BT will continue to supply your service.

We are eagerly waiting to see if we are to get a fourth (or more) fibre network. No sooner do one company fill in their holes then the next start spraying and marking the roads. I only wish I had shares in the company that hires out mobile traffic lights.

It all reminds me of the cable TV rollouts of the 90s. Loads of cruft coming through/turning up at the door to try and sell you the new-fangled service with cable internet and hundreds of channels.

What does need addressing is the retention of your landline number as a phone service. There's never an easy or fairly straightforward way to switch your number out to another service.

If I don't want BT/Plusnet digital voice but say want to move my (soon to be) IP landline voice service to another provider, like A&A how easy is it, without cutting off the Plusnet broadband service (which I am ok with)?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Plusnet are a division of BT, so I doubt they would offer services over anyone else’s infrastructure.

Which shows OR isn’t as independent as Ofcom wants it to be.

 

[87 027]

Openreach and KCom (in Hull) are the only two infrastructure operators deemed by the regulator to have 'significant market power' and so are under a general obligation to open up their network on a wholesale basis for others to provide retail services over the top.

The only circumstance in which any other provider would be under a similar obligation is if they have received direct subsidy (state aid) from UK government under the old Superfast programme or now Project Gigabit.

An alt-net which has entirely privately financed its fibre rollout is free to pick and choose what retail services it offers. It may make a decision to open its infrastructure on a wholesale basis to anyone else, or only offer its own captive retail products - that is a commercial decision. BT, Plusnet or any other retail internet service provider doesn't have an automatic right to offer their services over an alt-net's (competitor's) privately financed infrastructure, and customers need to be aware of this.

Which shows OR isn’t as independent as Ofcom wants it to be.

I think that is a misreading of the market situation.

If I don't want BT/Plusnet digital voice but say want to move my (soon to be) IP landline voice service to another provider, like A&A how easy is it, without cutting off the Plusnet broadband service (which I am ok with)?

If A&A (assuming they are not in receipt of government subsidy, which is highly likely to be the case if there is already service from Openreach) have made a decision not to open up their network to an ISP who they see as a competitor, that is their commercial prerogative and your choice will be confined to those ISPs that they allow over their network.

If A&A have opened up their network for any other ISPs to provide services over the top, whether by choice or because they have received government subsidy, there is no obligation for any ISP to take up that offer of access if they deem the faff and expense of integration and interoperability as not being worth their while commercially.

 

[JamesT]

If A&A (assuming they are not in receipt of government subsidy, which is highly likely to be the case if there is already service from Openreach) have made a decision not to open up their network to an ISP who they see as a competitor, that is their commercial prerogative and your choice will be confined to those ISPs that they allow over their network.

If A&A have opened up their network for any other ISPs to provide services over the top, whether by choice or because they have received government subsidy, there is no obligation for any ISP to take up that offer of access if they deem the faff and expense of integration and interoperability as not being worth their while commercially.

I don’t think this is entirely relevant to the question @lookapigeon asked. A&A offer a VoIP service that doesn’t care what the underlying internet connection is and will happily port numbers in.
The problem will be Plusnet. A quick skim of their forums finds threads such as https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-...ndline-number-to-a-VOIP-provider/td-p/1743647

Porting a number to VOIP will cease the landline and thus the broadband as well. So your contract would be cancelled, ETC's may apply and you'd have to reorder a landline and broadband on a new contract.

Other providers offer FTTC with no phone number, so could presumably cope with losing the number from the underlying landline without killing the broadband on top. But currently Plusnet apparently cannot.

 

[sor]

That was originally what BT were planning but they will offer a copper only landline (SOTAP) with the VOIP part at the exchange although even if they have one of the basic voice only packages using a router, it would cost the same as they pay now.

As a few people have mentioned, this isn't really a 'decision' by BT but something they have to do as they can't keep running obsolete and unsupported equipment and other countries have either shut down these systems or also planning their retirement.

I would bet money that SOTAP doesn't see huge adoption - and it won't be for the "little old lady living in an FTTC/FTTP area and can be given a router to plug their phone into", it'll be for the person in the middle of nowhere who currently can't get more than ADSL, maybe where mobile coverage is also inadequate. Openreach wants the copper gone wherever possible

Which shows OR isn’t as independent as Ofcom wants it to be.

No more so than companies like Sky who also have maintained exclusivity with Openreach. There are network integration hassles that would come with adopting an alt-net and for many it probably doesn't cost in compared to taking the discounts Openreach are offering.

Why would Ofcom care that the BT Group retail brands have made the obvious decision to use BT Group infrastructure (ie EE mobile and OR fixed line). As said, alt-nets can pick and choose their customers, and BT can pick and choose who its suppliers are. Given that Openreach's recent presentation to industry made a lot of hoo-hah over Sky's deep integration with OR processes (I believe Sky installers can now do some of the FTTP install work for their own customers) it sounds like they're fairly independent and willing to work with anyone.

 

[87 027]

Other providers offer FTTC with no phone number, so could presumably cope with losing the number from the underlying landline without killing the broadband on top. But currently Plusnet apparently cannot.

Skimming the forums I do rather get the impression that Plusnet is looking like it might become a bargain-basement, no-frills internet-only provider that will neither offer its own voice service nor the capability for anyone else's to operate alongside it. If so and a voice service is important then an alternative retail product looks the only way to go (whether over the Openreach infrastructure or anyone else's that is available at the premises).

I moved over to BT digital voice at the start of 2022 when taking out a new FTTP gigabit broadband contract and have not made one single outgoing call on the landline since. And the number of incoming calls received is probably in the single digits also

 

[ChrisC]

Skimming the forums I do rather get the impression that Plusnet is looking like it might become a bargain-basement, no-frills internet-only provider that will neither offer its own voice service nor the capability for anyone else's to operate alongside it. If so and a voice service is important then an alternative retail product looks the only way to go (whether over the Openreach infrastructure or anyone else's that is available at the premises).

I moved over to BT digital voice at the start of 2022 when taking out a new FTTP gigabit broadband contract and have not made one single outgoing call on the landline since. And the number of incoming calls received is probably in the single digits also

I’ve been with Plusnet for years now and have always been very satisfied with them. I was a quite concerned about the prospect of losing my landline as the mobile signal is not good where I live. Now I’ve found out about wifi calling I’m not so concerned. I seem to use my landline less and less these days anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I moved over to BT digital voice at the start of 2022 when taking out a new FTTP gigabit broadband contract and have not made one single outgoing call on the landline since. And the number of incoming calls received is probably in the single digits also

Digital Voice was not an all-over area launch from what people in different areas have told me. If this is true, which were the first areas in which it was made available and what areas are still awaiting the product launch?

 

[87 027]

Digital Voice was not an all-over area launch from what people in different areas have told me. If this is true, which were the first areas in which it was made available and what areas are still awaiting the product launch?

For me it was a voluntary move as I wanted the faster broadband speeds that full fibre provides (or rather my son did for his gaming PC). I had been monitoring the progress of fibre rollout in my area street by street using the detailed coverage maps at www.thinkbroadband.com and I spotted it had become available and ordered it even before receiving any publicity material from BT.

My Dad lives not too far from your good self and has received a letter from BT stating it is coming to his area in the next few months - I will have to dig it out as I can foresee potential compatibility issues with his red button call alarm system.

 

[sor]

Digital Voice was not an all-over area launch from what people in different areas have told me. If this is true, which were the first areas in which it was made available and what areas are still awaiting the product launch?

It depends on the route you take, as I understand it, some routes are "national". sor senior was strongly recommended to move to it when he recontracted. He does not live in any area that has been specially targeted by BT for a mass migration. Of course new customers also had the recommendation and now with the PSTN stop sale, new customers must now have Digital Voice or no landline service at all.

I will have to dig it out as I can foresee potential compatibility issues with his red button call alarm system.

If it works on a standard landline, there is no reason why it should not work on BT's digital voice. Power cuts are the primary difference but BT should provide a battery backup to such vulnerable customers.

 

[Energy]

If it works on a standard landline, there is no reason why it should not work on BT's digital voice. Power cuts are the primary difference but BT should provide a battery backup to such vulnerable customers.

If all it does is take the power in and dial 999 in an emergency when the button is pushed it will probably be ok as its requirements are no different to a basic corded phone. It's worth contacting the healthcare provider (assuming it is under one) or BT who can both help.

I'd particularly suggest contacting the healthcare provider, keeping BT digital voice on (as opposed to broadband only) costs £7pm even if it's only for 999 calls. If the healthcare provider can swap it out for a SIM-based unit then it can be potentially a lot cheaper.

Other providers can be cheaper, Vodafone always have the voice port turned on as PAYG without requiring you to pay extra. Any provider you are with is required by Ofcom to provide battery backup units to vulnerable customers.