Bury and Altrincham Lines pre-Metrolink

[rick9525]

I think you meant to say Warwick Road for Old Trafford on the Manchester to Altrincham line.

Woodlands Road (now closed) was situated between the new Metrolink stations of Queens Road and Abraham Moss on the Manchester to Bury Line.

Of course. To busy trying to remember the rest.
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303's did actually work to Altrincham when they were transferred south to the Manchester area in their latter years, late 80's/early 90's.

I once made my mum get off the train we were on just so I could ride on one.
It would have been around 1990/91 or so.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I once made my mum get off the train we were on just so I could ride on one.
It would have been around 1990/91 or so.

Wasn't far out then, must admit it was also my first experience of them when they were sent down here, can't say I was overly impressed and the seats weren't a patch on those deep sprung jobs in the 304's.

 

[Bevan Price]

Must add the glory days of the branch line from Bury to Holcombe Brook, no more than 4 miles single track and fully electrified (overhead to start then third rail (???)) until it became too expensive to maintain so they used diesels instead.

Wonder if anyone here is, ahem, old enough to remember using it?!!

A correction - the Holcombe Brook branch reverted from electric to steam - there were no dmus when the branch closed to passengers. I was on a railtour as far as Tottington, when the southern part of the line was still open for freight.

 

[Howardh]

A correction - the Holcombe Brook branch reverted from electric to steam - there were no dmus when the branch closed to passengers. I was on a railtour as far as Tottington, when the southern part of the line was still open for freight.

Stand corrected! Got the info from my old man who used to work in a factory right next to the line!
Most of the line's still there (bicycle use) except right into the town centre. Would have been perfect for the ELR to take over - or even today as a commuter train/tram to avoid the congestion.
Of course, being less than 4 miles there isn't that great a population to serve so I doubt it would make money, as a train service at least. Think the trams could make a go of it though, finishing on the road, but where would it join the metrolink?? Always a problem....

 

[D841 Roebuck]

I travelled on an excursion train from Stretford to Margate in 1978. This started at either Piccadilly or Oxford Road, called at various stations via Altrincham and Knutsford, then turned left at Northwich to reach Crewe. I found out 35 years later that 40137 was the motive power for the first part of the trip.This was presumably replaced by an electric at Crewe, then a 33 (possibly 33206, from memory) at Mitre Bridge Junction.

I believe 40004 worked a similar service a few years later.

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't know much about the Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham line during the period of the 1500v DC electrification. I would like to know where the EMU fleet was based?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I don't know much about the Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham line during the period of the 1500v DC electrification. I would like to know where the EMU fleet was based?

I think they were all based at Altrincham, if I'm not mistaken upon leaving the station in the direction of Chester the depot/emu yard was located on the right hand side of the line, and accessed through the three arches of the bridge.

 

[Whistler40145]

Cheers for the information

 

[Ash Bridge]

Cheers for the information

Just to briefly add, the two bay platforms which now serve metrolink were originally through roads that accessed the depot in the days of the 1500v emu's.

 

[Helvellyn]

Not 303s, they were Clydeside.

As has been said, quite a number were sent down from Clydeside in the mid-1980s, and a few of them even wore GMPTE orange and brown.

http://altrinchamelectric.org.uk/photo_gallery/images/altrincham-station-class303-1986.jpg

 

[edwin_m]

The depot was previously a very short branch to Bowdon, although when this was open to passengers the Altrincham station was a bit further north so the stations were a bit further apart than you might guess from looking at what is there today. As far as I can tell the Bowdon terminus fronted onto the junction of Railway Street and Lloyd Street, and most of the bridge where Goose Green crossed over the branch still exists although partly buried in a car park.

http://binged.it/1LDIudP

 

[ag51ruk]

I think they were all based at Altrincham, if I'm not mistaken upon leaving the station in the direction of Chester the depot/emu yard was located on the right hand side of the line, and accessed through the three arches of the bridge.

There were also sidings north of Alderley Edge where I think some units were stabled overnight - they survived into the 2000s but were completely overgrown, the track has been lifted now but you can still see where they were (on the left heading north to Wilmslow)

 

[Ash Bridge]

There were also sidings north of Alderley Edge where I think some units were stabled overnight - they survived into the 2000s but were completely overgrown, the track has been lifted now but you can still see where they were (on the left heading north to Wilmslow)

I think Tim was specifically referring to the MSJ&R 1500v DC EMU's which of course didn't operate that far south, although I've often wondered if the stabling sidings still remained there, always forget to look when passing through, I suppose they were removed during the re-signalling a few years back, a 304 (or two)was usually visible at weekends from the road when traveling to or from Alderley.

 

[Whistler40145]

Indeed I was Ash Bridge.

It's amazing that that small section from Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham wasn't immediately converted to 25kV as part of the Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly (London Road) project.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Indeed I was Ash Bridge.

It's amazing that that small section from Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham wasn't immediately converted to 25kV as part of the Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly (London Road) project.

Yes when you think those DC units were already about 30 years old in the early 60s, it makes you wonder why they didn't.

 

[northwichcat]

It's amazing that that small section from Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham wasn't immediately converted to 25kV as part of the Crewe to Manchester Piccadilly (London Road) project.

There were earlier plans to do that which also included extending electrification to Chester and apparently they started doing some preliminary work ahead of electrification between Altrincham and Knutsford. However, those plans were shelved due to the costs involved.

 

[Ash Bridge]

There were earlier plans to do that which also included extending electrification to Chester and apparently they started doing some preliminary work ahead of electrification between Altrincham and Knutsford. However, those plans were shelved due to the costs involved.

Interesting, never knew of that.

 

[Whistler40145]

Obviously by the time they decided to convert to 25kV, I can imagine that both the EMUs and line side equipment would've been life expired, thus making the decision a lot easier?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Obviously by the time they decided to convert to 25kV, I can imagine that both the EMUs and line side equipment would've been life expired, thus making the decision a lot easier?

Just been looking at some shots of the catenary coming out of Altrincham towards Manchester and it appears the steelwork is still the original LMS structures from 1930, if so its amazing when you think it was built for 1500v DC then converted to 25kv then adapted again for 750 DC? Light rail use!

 

[Whistler40145]

I expect that hasn't happened very often.

 

[30907]

Yes when you think those DC units were already about 30 years old in the early 60s, it makes you wonder why they didn't.

They were only 30 years old at that stage....
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Obviously by the time they decided to convert to 25kV, I can imagine that both the EMUs and line side equipment would've been life expired, thus making the decision a lot easier?

And by then straight 25kV rather than 6.25kV was possible, which might not have been the case in 1960.

 

[Whistler40145]

Would I be correct in thinking that the closure of the Woodhead route was the deciding factor in converting both the Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham and the Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield/Glossop lines to 25kV AC operation?

 

[edwin_m]

Would I be correct in thinking that the closure of the Woodhead route was the deciding factor in converting both the Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham and the Manchester Piccadilly to Hadfield/Glossop lines to 25kV AC operation?

Unlikely in the case of the Altrincham line. The 1500V lines either side of Piccadilly could not have been linked because of the 25kV in between.

Partially true in the case of Hadfield/Glossop. Once there was no need for compatibility with Woodhead trains, there was no reason still to keep 1500V. Converting to 25kV gave extra flexibility at Piccadilly and the units were life-expired so would have to have been replaced by new non-standard types.
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Just been looking at some shots of the catenary coming out of Altrincham towards Manchester and it appears the steelwork is still the original LMS structures from 1930, if so its amazing when you think it was built for 1500v DC then converted to 25kv then adapted again for 750 DC? Light rail use!

Yes most of the support structures are original. I presume that until they were renewed five years or so back, some of the actual wires and their insulators etc were also the same ones from the 25kV era.

 

[Whistler40145]

Many thanks for your information on this subject.

 

[Darren R]

Must add the glory days of the branch line from Bury to Holcombe Brook, no more than 4 miles single track and fully electrified (overhead to start then third rail (???)) until it became too expensive to maintain so they used diesels instead.

Wonder if anyone here is, ahem, old enough to remember using it?!!

Electrified in 1912 - 13 at the expense of Dick, Kerr & Co at 3,500 volts DC from overhead wires, as an experiment in high voltage electrification. Operated by a pair of two-coach electric trains, the experiment was considered a success but the L&YR Board decided instead to stick with the 3rd rail system with which they were familiar. The branch was converted to the 1,200 volt 3rd rail system used by Victoria to Bury Bolton Street trains in March 1918. During the changeover works, the branch trains continued to run by connecting the overhead wires to the 1,200 volt system and running a Manchester to Bury power car coupled to a Holcombe Brook coach, which acted as a current collector/driving trailer.

Even into BR days there were 29 return trips a day between Bury and Holcombe Brook, until March 1951 when steam push-pulls were substituted pending renewal of the electrical equipment. The passenger service was withdrawn completely in May 1952. (Without wishing to give anything away about the age of certain posters, the remaining stub of the branch as far as Tottington survived until August 1963. )

It has been mentioned that there was an intention to electrify to Chester, but let us not forget that when the Manchester Victoria to Bury Bolton Street line was electrified in 1916, it was originally part of a plan by the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway to electrify all its branches that operated out of Victoria, including the Oldham Loop and Stalybridge branch, with the long-term aim of electrifying all of its main lines across the L&Y network. The First World War put the plan on pause, and post-war railway finances put the kibosh on the whole idea.

It is one of those great railway imponderables: 'what if...?' If the plans of the L&Y had come to fruition, along with the later planned extension of the wires beyond Altrincham, what would the Metrolink map look like today?

As a historic side note, when the Bury line was electrified, power was generated by the Lanky's own power station at Clifton Junction and fed into the system via a substation beneath Manchester Victoria. When engineers were working on the new track layout at Salford in early 1988, it was not until the electric trains had been at a standstill for half an hour that the purpose of the old cables which the engineers had severed became apparent!