Bus Driver Shortages

[PaulMc7]

Brexit and Covid have definitely played a part in it as it shows in most industries in the UK. The cost of everything going up doesn't help operators either. Diesel has come down a bit but nowhere near as much as petrol and electricity is now becoming a factor due to the move towards non-diesel buses. Wages have gone up a bit at the companies that operate near me but funding also got cut so they can't really push it much further.

 

[Prince of Wale]

When the taxpayer gets fed up of paying for services they have no interest in using, the bus driver shortage will sort itself out.

 

[Deerfold]

When the taxpayer gets fed up of paying for services they have no interest in using, the bus driver shortage will sort itself out.

And more of those taxpayers will find it then costs them more to get to work than is worth it for what they earn.

 

[158756]

Interesting, I have heard of HGV drivers going to warehouses for similar reasons which is why we have shortages of drivers, I didn't know you can convert your PCV licence to HGV, does it work the other way round ?

Guess the old adage is true "Pay peanuts, get monkeys" they need to offer a salary enough to make it worthwhile, since Brexit the cheaper workers have gone home exposing the vulnerability of the labour market and the employers can no longer get away without paying the market rate.

Where does the money come from to pay for it though? The bus driver is a very substantial proportion of the cost of providing a bus service, much more so than a HGV driver is to the cost of items on a supermarket shelf. Passenger numbers are down since the pandemic and those who are left are not prepared to pay higher fares.

If the money is not going to come from fares the alternative is taxpayers, and we are already moving in that direction with the various £2 fare caps and Manchester's franchising plans on top of ENTCS already giving many passengers free travel. But how much money the government and taxpayers are willing to stump up remains to be seen - the arguments about ENTCS on this forum provide a cautionary tale for buses becoming more reliant on public funds.

 

[Qwerty133]

When the taxpayer gets fed up of paying for services they have no interest in using, the bus driver shortage will sort itself out.

It will never sort itself out as the bus companies are enjoying having an excuse for providing a substandard service a bit too much.
It has reached the point that the local Arriva depot are claiming the shortage of drivers is causing every single cancellation even where it is plainly obvious that the actual reason is that the bus has broken down or that there was no serviceable buses to run the service (and sometimes even where the supposedly unavailable driver is waiting for the non-existent bus to turn up because they have also not been told that it is broken down).

 

[JD2168]

Since First South Yorkshire cut their services back in October there have been little to no cancellations due to driver shortages. At both Stagecoach Yorkshire & TM Travel cancellations are still a daily occurrence.

 

[43055]

There’s no improvement here in Nottinghamshire. Both Stagecoach East Midlands and Trent Barton issue lists each day of cancelled buses due to driver shortages. These lists are quite extensive and are not getting any shorter. I find it very inconvenient living on a route which is only hourly as there are still regularly a couple of cancellations each day. At least Stagecoach in Mansfield do usually publish the list the day before whereas Trent Barton do not publish their list of cancellations until on the actual day. The cancellations are only published on Twitter so I do wonder just how many people don’t actually know about them.

I think there is a bit more going on with trentbarton. Most of the cancellations now seem to be on the Sutton routes (threes, nines and connect). In the last few weeks 3 of the former two Volvo's have been sent to Sutton for the threes which makes me wonder if some of the cancellations is not to do with drivers but the buses themselves. Especially when there has been 3 fires in the last year which does include one of the threes buses.

Not saying the driver shortage has been resolved but for the Derby depot routes it seems to be very few cancellations now.

 

[PaulMc7]

One thing I've noticed recently is the difference in price between petrol and diesel. One petrol station was 139.7 a litre for petrol but 164.7 for diesel. This coupled with electricity prices rising since pre-covid have probably knocked enough money out of companies to drop what they can offer in wages by £2-3 an hour.

I reckon if we had pre-covid and Brexit fuel prices, my local company First Glasgow could have realistically offered £15 an hour instead of £13. Would it have made a massive difference? Maybe not but it all adds up and would have certainly turned a few heads. First have already began their commitment of never buying new diesel buses again so the electricity costs are unavoidable too.

 

[Titfield]

One thing I've noticed recently is the difference in price between petrol and diesel. One petrol station was 139.7 a litre for petrol but 164.7 for diesel. This coupled with electricity prices rising since pre-covid have probably knocked enough money out of companies to drop what they can offer in wages by £2-3 an hour.

It is my view that the much wider difference between petrol and diesel prices is because the oil companies have realised they can get away with it. Perhaps (and I say perhaps) diesels are more widely used by those who use their vehicle for a living ie builders, plumbers, delivery companies etc etc who cant cut down their mileage.

 

[PaulMc7]

It is my view that the much wider difference between petrol and diesel prices is because the oil companies have realised they can get away with it. Perhaps (and I say perhaps) diesels are more widely used by those who use their vehicle for a living ie builders, plumbers, delivery companies etc etc who cant cut down their mileage.

I fully agree with this. I've known an awful lot of people who have moaned about petrol and diesel prices yet none of them ever do anything different even when buses and trains would be cheaper for them and not that much slower either.

I feel for those who can't use another method of transport due to circumstances but if you moan when you can avoid it easily then I'm far less sympathetic.

The problem in Glasgow is that car congestion has never ever been worse than it is now and drivers take the brunt of the complaints and when you point it out to people they just say it's an excuse and that buses should just be able to deal with it.

No wonder drivers are leaving when the public are nasty about things out of their control. It reflects in any industry that deals with the public too. Staff shortages everywhere where the public needs to be served.

 

[ChrisC]

It will never sort itself out as the bus companies are enjoying having an excuse for providing a substandard service a bit too much.

I do wonder how much this is the case and whether it can be used as an excuse for not running services they don’t want to run. I live in a village with an hourly bus service and Stagecoach East Midlands have quite regularly been cancelling the last bus of the day. This is not good when the last bus begins it outward journey as early as 6pm. Yesterday the last 2 buses were cancelled meaning the last bus left Mansfield at 4pm! I wonder how many people went into town earlier in the day and then found that there was no bus home. The first buses in the morning have also had a number of cancellations in recent weeks. The route is funded by the County Council so I do wonder if the council is reimbursed for all these cancellations.

 

[90019]

I live in a village with an hourly bus service and Stagecoach East Midlands have quite regularly been cancelling the last bus of the day. This is not good when the last bus begins it outward journey as early as 6pm. Yesterday the last 2 buses were cancelled meaning the last bus left Mansfield at 4pm!

If this is a regular occurrence, you should contact your local traffic commissioner about it as they tend to take a very dim view of last buses being cancelled.

 

[Deerfold]

If this is a regular occurrence, you should contact your local traffic commissioner about it as they tend to take a very dim view of last buses being cancelled.

Not to mention the council who is paying for the service.

 

[Snow1964]

It is my view that the much wider difference between petrol and diesel prices is because the oil companies have realised they can get away with it. Perhaps (and I say perhaps) diesels are more widely used by those who use their vehicle for a living ie builders, plumbers, delivery companies etc etc who cant cut down their mileage.

Whilst might be some retailers charging excess (for both fuels), the simple reason is used to import about 20% of our diesel from Russia so now having to compete with others buy from elsewhere.

Seasonal factors are also valid, diesel and heating oil are similar, so in European winter are going to be higher demand. Then there is US driving season in summer when those from North drive to Florida etc and generally drive more. In winter lots of surplus gasoline in US which can come to Europe and help bring down price.

Nothing to do with oil companies why builders etc choose pick ups and small vans with diesel in UK, but petrol (gasoline) in US. Actually modern Euro6d emission diesels are dumb choice for lots of town local journeys because get clogged emissions systems. The market will react to what they want to buy which is why electric and petrol small vans are now available (but diesel is still common).

More a case of market price of diesel fuel is now about 15-20% higher, diesel vehicles cost more to buy so are rapidly dying breed for cars.

Last month only 3.1% of new cars were diesel

Car Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly

www.smmt.co.uk

But 90.7% for vans, pickups (upto 6ton) were diesel

LCV Registrations

SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT Van and Truck registrations data

www.smmt.co.uk

 

[GusB]

Just a reminder that this thread isn't for discussing the details of fuel prices. Please stay on topic.

 

[RogerOut]

Interesting, I have heard of HGV drivers going to warehouses for similar reasons which is why we have shortages of drivers, I didn't know you can convert your PCV licence to HGV, does it work the other way round ?

Guess the old adage is true "Pay peanuts, get monkeys" they need to offer a salary enough to make it worthwhile, since Brexit the cheaper workers have gone home exposing the vulnerability of the labour market and the employers can no longer get away without paying the market rate.

Short answer is no. Someone with a PCV licence ( cat D) cannot drive a HGV ( Cat C).
And vice versa. However the CPC hours are transferable.

To drive a HGV or bus for hire or reward, you must have sat a driving test for that particular category of vehicle. I have both.

 

[philthetube]

I do wonder how much this is the case and whether it can be used as an excuse for not running services they don’t want to run. I live in a village with an hourly bus service and Stagecoach East Midlands have quite regularly been cancelling the last bus of the day. This is not good when the last bus begins it outward journey as early as 6pm. Yesterday the last 2 buses were cancelled meaning the last bus left Mansfield at 4pm! I wonder how many people went into town earlier in the day and then found that there was no bus home. The first buses in the morning have also had a number of cancellations in recent weeks. The route is funded by the County Council so I do wonder if the council is reimbursed for all these cancellations.

Sort of on topic, I applied for my licence four weeks ago, having previously not renewed it for 30 years, I retired aged 62 last year.

It arrived yesterday, I have not decided what to do with it yet, not school services, but a bit of part time somewhere

It strikes me that it should not be difficult to find a licence holder happy to do a bit of part time work covering services such as this on a regular basis.

Not easy for the operating companies to find the drivers but easy for Swansea to drop notes to 60/65 year olds with expired licences.

I will not be carrying passengers without a bit of practice first,

 

[Ken H]

Sort of on topic, I applied for my licence four weeks ago, having previously not renewed it for 30 years, I retired aged 62 last year.

It arrived yesterday, I have not decided what to do with it yet, not school services, but a bit of part time somewhere

It strikes me that it should not be difficult to find a licence holder happy to do a bit of part time work covering services such as this on a regular basis.

Not easy for the operating companies to find the drivers but easy for Swansea to drop notes to 60/65 year olds with expired licences.

I will not be carrying passengers without a bit of practice first,

Go for it. I know Transdev have a small number of oldies doing the odd shift.