Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

One would expect all buses, both body on chassis and integral, to make a profit for their manufacturer(s) otherwise they won't continue in business.

Of course, I’m merely stating that the profit margins on integrals will be greater.

 

[Goldfish62]

Of course, I’m merely stating that the profit margins on integrals will be greater.

I don't understand your reasoning.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

I don't understand your reasoning.

I would think that there would also be a profit margin built in to the chassis build.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I don't understand your reasoning.

As an example, essentially ADL can make more profit off an integral Enviro400 where it's 100% their product when compared to an Enviro400 on a Volvo or Scania chassis where it's only 50% their product.

 

[TRAX]

As an example, essentially ADL can make more profit off an integral Enviro400 where it's 100% their product when compared to an Enviro400 on a Volvo or Scania chassis where it's only 50% their product.

100 % their product not really. ADL, as most other manufacturers, basically just assemble parts made elsewhere by sub-suppliers. And ADL don’t make any powertrain components so their profit margin will be even less than a manufacturer that also makes its own engines like Mercedes-Benz or Scania.

 

[Snow1964]

100 % their product not really. ADL, as most other manufacturers, basically just assemble parts made elsewhere by sub-suppliers. And ADL don’t make any powertrain components so their profit margin will be even less than a manufacturer that also makes its own engines like Mercedes-Benz or Scania.

Yes these days ADL are principally a bus body builder and assembler. The large chassis factory at Guildford closed down a few months back. I think they now have a license to build BYD chassis but many of the ones ADL use come from BYD factory in Hungary. BYD did build a bus factory in Beauvais, France, but it didn’t have many orders and was closed down last year.

 

[RELL6L]

Yes these days ADL are principally a bus body builder and assembler. The large chassis factory at Guildford closed down a few months back. I think they now have a license to build BYD chassis but many of the ones ADL use come from BYD factory in Hungary. BYD did build a bus factory in Beaumaris, France, but it didn’t have many orders and was closed down last year.

Beaumaris is in Anglesey, not France. I think they did build buses there - Saunders body builders. The site is still there but derelict.

 

[siriain]

As a minor correction, the French BYD bus factory was in Beauvais.

 

[RELL6L]

As a minor correction, the French BYD bus factory was in Beauvais.

Probably auto-correct!

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Yes these days ADL are principally a bus body builder and assembler. The large chassis factory at Guildford closed down a few months back. I think they now have a license to build BYD chassis but many of the ones ADL use come from BYD factory in Hungary. BYD did build a bus factory in Beaumaris, France, but it didn’t have many orders and was closed down last year.

The upside of being an "assembler" is that you don't need to have the network of dealers to deal with warranty claims.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Someone has earlier mentioned the new Volvo BZL with MCV bodywork so I had a little viewing on YouTube.

It’s a good looking machine my only concern is the way the bodywork has been mounted so low to the ground, the specific reason ADL E200 & Wright Streetlites have so much lower panel damage.

Not to mention the issues if there’s a road with steep approach or departure angle.

 

[py_megapixel]

Someone has earlier mentioned the new Volvo BZL with MCV bodywork so I had a little viewing on YouTube.

It’s a good looking machine my only concern is the way the bodywork has been mounted so low to the ground, the specific reason ADL E200 & Wright Streetlites have so much lower panel damage.

Not to mention the issues if there’s a road with steep approach or departure angle.

Don't they have to be like that for accessibility reasons?

Any chance you could link the video you saw?

 

[TRAX]

The upside of being an "assembler" is that you don't need to have the network of dealers to deal with warranty claims.

That’s not true, operators deal with the "assembler" (ADL etc., the correct term is OEM now apparently, even though it used to be the term to designate the sub-suppliers who make the parts for the manufacturer of the complete end product – I don’t know why it switched sides in the recent years… Even the Wikipedia page for "OEM, Original Equipment Manufacturer" talks about that recent ambiguity…) for a lot of the things that relate to spare parts and warranty stuff, for both OEM parts and sub-supplier parts (doors, brake pads, engine belts, etc.).

The "assembler" often acts as the intermediary between the customer and the part manufacturer.

 

[Tom Gallacher]

That’s not true, operators deal with the "assembler" (ADL etc., the correct term is OEM now apparently, even though it used to be the term to designate the sub-suppliers who make the parts for the manufacturer of the complete end product – I don’t know why it switched sides in the recent years… Even the Wikipedia page for "OEM, Original Equipment Manufacturer" talks about that recent ambiguity…) for a lot of the things that relate to spare parts and warranty stuff, for both OEM parts and sub-supplier parts (doors, brake pads, engine belts, etc.).

The "assembler" often acts as the intermediary between the customer and the part manufacturer.

My post was in response to Snow1964 who termed ADL as an assembler in relation to the chassis component of a complete bus - that's why I highlighted the word assembler in inverted commas.

I also never said that you didn't have to deal with the chassis supplier in order to get any issues under warranty dealt with. What I said was that being an "assembler" allows you to get away with the need to have a network of dealers to handle this. Whenever ADL have a problem with an engine or gearbox they will normally get the OE manufacturer to attend to this repair. There are some exceptions whereby ADL have their own mechanics/technicians placed in certain big company depots but even these mechanics/technicians will defer to the OE manufacturer when necessary.

Prior to the creation of Transbus, by the amalgamation of Alexander's and Dennis Specialist Vehicles (to give them their proper name), Dennis SV had a network of privately owned commercial vehicle repairers who would provide maintenance back-up including some warranty work that they were capable of. They also provided the spare parts within their local region. This arrangement worked very well and it could be said that they played a major, if unacknowledged, part in the success of Dennis SV during this period. This collaboration came to an end when the monster that was Transbus came into being.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Over 100 Volvo B5TLs have been delivered to the UK since that post however, including on three different body types.

Falcon Coaches LF71DKV

The weekend of March 5th/6th 2022 saw a big rail replacement operation centred on Woking and stretching out to Basingstoke, Guildford, Weybridge and Aldershot. I didn't much spare time this weekend so my prime target was to snap Falcon Coaches Volvo B5TL / MCV eVoSeti LF71DKV, a bus which...

www.flickr.com

698 - SJ71 HLV - Lothian Buses

11.04.22 - Volvo B5TL 698 is pictured at the foot of The Mound on a 42 to Leith

www.flickr.com

LL71SHA Sanders Services 126 named Lily Lucy Shade

Volvo B5TL with Wrightbus Eclipse Gemini 3 body at Alby Norfolk.

www.flickr.com

These were orders that were placed before the B5TL was discontinued and removed from the Volvo site.

A number of deliveries were either delayed in manufacturing because of COVID or had delivery deferred until a later point at the customers request.

 

[Blindtraveler]

So do Volvo still offer a standard diesel 2 axle double deck chassis of any kind or or will we not see another one from them now

 

[Snow1964]

So do Volvo still offer a standard diesel 2 axle double deck chassis of any kind or or will we not see another one from them now

I understand Volvo has discontinued diesel chassis in Europe.

They still make 2 axle diesel buses for some other parts of the world, but they are different style (think more the rugged looking buses in parts of Africa etc).

There is still a version of B5L chassis called S-charge which has a 5 litre diesel, but is a parallel hybrid

Volvo B5L S-Charge

The perfect replacement for gas and diesel buses in applications less suitable for electric buses. Self-charging and no need for charging infrastructure.

www.volvobuses.com

https://www.volvobuses.com/content/dam/volvo-buses/markets/master/city-and-intercity/chassis/volvo-b5l-s-charge/Data_sheet_B5L_S-Charge_DD_Euro_6_2021_EN.pdf

https://www.volvobuses.com/content/dam/volvo-buses/markets/master/city-and-intercity/chassis/volvo-b5l-s-charge/BRO_Volvo_S-Charge_EN-SG.pdf

 

[Blindtraveler]

That's going to cause lothianbuses a headache next time they want some new standard size deckers, they are I would have said highly unlikely to move to the full ADL product given their fleet as stands and also as I understand it they've been less than impressed with the ADL drivetrain etc in the past

 

[Snow1964]

The Ride & Drive section of this weeks ITT Hub exhibition at Farnborough is listing an Iveco 70c21 I-city max

Ride & Drive - ITT Hub

A test drive opportunity set over two days and with 300 test drives. Featuring 20 bus, coach, van, truck, trailers, and micro mobility vehicles. A selection

itthub.co.uk

For those wondering what it is, it is a low floor midibus

Ilesbus launches Iveco-based I-City Max low-floor midibus - routeone

Ilesbus has launched its I-City Max low-floor model. it is based on the Iveco Daily chassis and has up to 32 seats and two wheelchair spaces.

www.route-one.net

looks to me a modern equivalent of the Metrorider

 

[GusB]

I have moved a number of off-topic posts to their correct thread:

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

New thread to discuss the service bus operations of Lothian Buses and subsidiaries - continuation of this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/lothian-buses-and-ecb-discussion.151391/

www.railforums.co.uk

Please keep the thread on topic.

 

[johnw]

The former MD of ADL often stated in the trade press that ADL would rather have half an order - ie build an Enviro body on a Volvo or Scania chassis than have no order at all….

 

[MotCO]

I imagine he would be happy to see an ADL bodied bus on the road (rather than a competitor), and few people would know or care what the chassis was.

 

[Snow1964]

An article in India (where Ashok Leyland, Optare parent is based), has revealed that Optare will be finishing its last few diesel bus orders in next few weeks. Optare is expected to continue for another 8-10 years for parts.

All the new business has been rolled over into Switch Mobility which started just over year ago

This bus maker with a 100+ year lineage ends diesel journey in favor of EVs​

British bus maker Optare will deliver its final batches of diesel buses over the next 6-8 weeks, bringing down curtains on a 115-year journey in different forms. This development can be seen as a significant example of the transition of the automotive industry towards electrification.

This bus maker with a 100+ year lineage ends diesel journey in favor of EVs - ET Auto

Optare Electric Buses: British bus maker Optare will deliver its final batches of diesel buses over the next 6-8 weeks, bringing down curtains on a 115-year journey in different forms. This development can be seen as a significant example of the transition of the automotive industry towards...

auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[aswilliamsuk]

An article in India (where Ashok Leyland, Optare parent is based), has revealed that Optare will be finishing its last few diesel bus orders in next few weeks. Optare is expected to continue for another 8-10 years for parts.

All the new business has been rolled over into Switch Mobility which started just over year ago

This bus maker with a 100+ year lineage ends diesel journey in favor of EVs - ET Auto

Optare Electric Buses: British bus maker Optare will deliver its final batches of diesel buses over the next 6-8 weeks, bringing down curtains on a 115-year journey in different forms. This development can be seen as a significant example of the transition of the automotive industry towards...

auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com

My understanding was that the last diesel Solos have already been delivered, so presumably these are a few more MetroCities being completed for somewhere - does anyone know?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Wrightbus have won an deal to supply 60 Kite Hydroliners to Regionalverkehr Köln GmbH (RVK) in Germany.

Wrightbus lands German deal for up to 60 hydrogen buses

Wrightbus lands German deal for up to 60 hydrogen buses

wrightbus.com

Photo showing one of the vehicles:

Leading UK bus manufacturer Wrightbus has announced a second international zero-emission bus deal in a fortnight that will see it ship dozens of clean buses to Europe.

Wrightbus has signed a deal with German Bus operator Regionalverkehr Köln GmbH (RVK) to supply up to 60 Kite Hydroliner single deck buses over the next two years. The buses will be the first integral left-hand drive vehicles that Wrightbus has made and exported since green entrepreneur Jo Bamford bought the firm out of administration in 2019.

All of the buses will be fully built at the Wrightbus factory in Ballymena, supporting green jobs and the wider Northern Ireland economy. RVK, which operates bus services in Cologne, already has the largest fleet of hydrogen Fuel Cell EV buses in Europe. The RVK order comes hot on the heels of a landmark deal with Australian bus body builder Volgren to supply hydrogen power trains that could open up a significant export market in the country.

Wrightbus Executive Chairman, Jo Bamford, said he was pleased to be announcing the RVK order. “This deal is a significant one for us in many ways. Not only is it our first European order since I took over, but it’s also our second international deal in quick succession and it shows that Wrightbus has a huge part to play on the global stage.

“RVK already has a substantial hydrogen fleet so for them to order from Wrightbus and recognise us as a leader in the sector is hugely gratifying and a testament to the reputation we’ve built up in the zero-emission sector. The recent appointment of our dedicated European Chief Commercial Officer Jean-Luc Deflandre highlights our desire to grow in the market, and we’re hoping this order marks the start of the roll out of many left-hand drive zero-emission buses in cities across Europe and beyond in the coming years.”

Mr Bamford said that the deal was another boost for manufacturing in Northern Ireland. “All of the RVK buses will be built in Ballymena, lending further support to the wider regional economy and allowing us to create green jobs as we continue in our growth,” he added. The first vehicles will be delivered to RVK in 2023, with the remainder due in 2024.

RVK has extensive experience in running hydrogen buses since first introducing them to its fleet in 2011. It currently has 52 hydrogen buses of varying types as part of its fleet. RVK Managing Director, Dr. Marcel Frank, said he was excited to be working with Wrightbus. “We have currently received federal funding to expand our hydrogen bus fleet by 2025. The combination of the most economical offer with a robust service concept is the reason why we placed the order with Wrightbus.“

Since first entering passenger service in 2020, StreetDeck Hydroliners have clocked up more than a million miles, preventing 1,700 tonnes of CO2 from entering the atmosphere on those bus journeys. No harmful emissions are emitted from the vehicles, with water vapour being the only emission.

Rescued from administration by green entrepreneur Jo Bamford in October 2019, Wrightbus has since gone from strength to strength, taking staff numbers from 56 to more than 900. and doubling output at its Ballymena-based HQ. With zero-emission vehicles making up 70 per cent of production this year, it is truly leading the way in green transport.

 

[Snow1964]

Wrightbus have won an deal to supply 60 Kite Hydroliners to Regionalverkehr Köln GmbH (RVK) in Germany.

Wrightbus lands German deal for up to 60 hydrogen buses

Wrightbus lands German deal for up to 60 hydrogen buses

wrightbus.com

Wrightbus are distorting the order, the Germans have it as 20 orders plus 40 options, so upto 60, but currently 20

Solaris won 20, with 20 options too

In Germany, Regional Transport Cologne (RVK) has made an order for up to 100 fuel cell buses. In the Europe-wide tender for the hydrogen-powered buses, Polish manufacturer Solaris was awarded 20 guaranteed and 20 optional buses and Wrightbus from Northern Ireland has taken an order for 20 guaranteed and 40 optional buses.

RVK orders up to 100 H2 fuel cell buses for Cologne - electrive.com

In Germany, Regional Transport Cologne (RVK) has made an order for up to 100 fuel cell buses. In the Europe-wide tender for the hydrogen-powered buses, Polish manufacturer

www.electrive.com

 

[Jordan Adam]

Wrightbus are distorting the order, the Germans have it as 20 orders plus 40 options, so upto 60, but currently 20

Solaris won 20, with 20 options too

RVK orders up to 100 H2 fuel cell buses for Cologne - electrive.com

In Germany, Regional Transport Cologne (RVK) has made an order for up to 100 fuel cell buses. In the Europe-wide tender for the hydrogen-powered buses, Polish manufacturer

www.electrive.com

I wouldn't really say they are, the article does state "up to 60".

 

[scosutsut]

Wrightbus are distorting the order, the Germans have it as 20 orders plus 40 options, so upto 60, but currently 20

Solaris won 20, with 20 options too

RVK orders up to 100 H2 fuel cell buses for Cologne - electrive.com

In Germany, Regional Transport Cologne (RVK) has made an order for up to 100 fuel cell buses. In the Europe-wide tender for the hydrogen-powered buses, Polish manufacturer

www.electrive.com

I wouldn't really say they are, the article does state "up to 60".

Standard behaviour for all sorts of manufacturers. The whole options thing is a bit odd at first glance, of course you have the option to buy more - I guess the options are arrangements that include "pencilled in" build dates and I assume either a pre arranged price or price formula?

Also, on a aside I do assume that Northern Ireland's current "in the single market," position comes in extremely useful in these types of situations, as wouldn't be import duty payable on them into Germany if they were from say mainland UK?

 

[Goldfish62]

Also, on a aside I do assume that Northern Ireland's current "in the single market," position comes in extremely useful in these types of situations, as wouldn't be import duty payable on them into Germany if they were from say mainland UK?

If that's the case, then it applies to the ADL E500s being built for Berlin.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Trade in goods between the EU and UK shall not be subject to any tariffs or quotas. Traders can self-certify compliance with agreed rules of origin. However, as a result of the UK leaving the EU customs area, customs formalities are required between the two parties, and VAT and certain other duties apply upon import.

EU–UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org