Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Goldfish62]

The amount of fuss they made about the MMC solving the rattles and squeaks and general noisiness which of course we all know it didn't has convinced me to not believe a single word they say if they're going to try and change it now. They for me will always be synonymous with cheap Radley bodies that just ultimately make a long-term unpleasant ride for passengers and must be horrendous for drivers

I had a good look over the E400EV at the NEC last month. Ignoring all the Trandev Blazefield bling it didn't really appear significantly different from what's gone before. The cove panels appeared to be as flimsy as before, for example.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It would be more newsworthy if there were significant differences in this area

 

[m79900]

How long will the ADL diesels last once production of EVs is in full swing? Could we see facelifted variants of the MMC to take them through to the diesel ban?

 

[Goldfish62]

How long will the ADL diesels last once production of EVs is in full swing? Could we see facelifted variants of the MMC to take them through to the diesel ban?

I suppose the EV bodywork could be adapted for the diesel version, just as the City is still offered for the E400 instead of the MMC bodywork.

 

[Bornin1980s]

How long will the ADL diesels last once production of EVs is in full swing? Could we see facelifted variants of the MMC to take them through to the diesel ban?

The diesels will remain available as long as there is demand, I think they have learned from the Optare/Switch mistake. However, the money is going into electrics, so it's unlikely there will be any major diesel launches again.

As for 'facelifts', buses aren't tweaked for style as often as cars. I think any further tweaks would be due to regulations, like the London front end.

 

[Discuss223]

The diesels will remain available as long as there is demand, I think they have learned from the Optare/Switch mistake. However, the money is going into electrics, so it's unlikely there will be any major diesel launches again.

As for 'facelifts', buses aren't tweaked for style as often as cars. I think any further tweaks would be due to regulations, like the London front end.

The Alexander PSs that Mainline group bought over a 6 year period from 1990-1996 were tweaked in to several different variants, for example, the earlier ones has a back end that went inwards at the top, with a small window, the 1991 ones went inwards at the top of the back end with a larger backed window. The 1992 ones had a flat back end running all of the way up with a roof vent at the side and then the 1994 ones had the same but no vent, the 1995 ones had clustered rear lights fitted.

 

[PG]

The Alexander PSs that Mainline group bought over a 6 year period from 1990-1996 were tweaked in to several different variants, for example, the earlier ones has a back end that went inwards at the top, with a small window, the 1991 ones went inwards at the top of the back end with a larger backed window. The 1992 ones had a flat back end running all of the way up with a roof vent at the side and then the 1994 ones had the same but no vent, the 1995 ones had clustered rear lights fitted.

Were those different variants all on the same chassis or could some of the differences be related to being on different chassis?

 

[Discuss223]

Were those different variants all on the same chassis or could some of the differences be related to being on different chassis?

All on a Volvo B10M chassis.

 

[MotCO]

The diesels will remain available as long as there is demand, I think they have learned from the Optare/Switch mistake. However, the money is going into electrics, so it's unlikely there will be any major diesel launches again.

As for 'facelifts', buses aren't tweaked for style as often as cars. I think any further tweaks would be due to regulations, like the London front end.

Body styles may be tweaked if the EV bodies are tweaked; mechanicals would only be tweaked if Cummins updated their engines etc.

 

[PG]

All on a Volvo B10M chassis.

Ah right thanks, bang goes that theory!
I'd never been aware of most of those variations, perhaps because at one time the B10M/PS was so ubiquitous. I guess we should be grateful that Alexander were persuaded to tweak the design else we'd have been landed with the somewhat angular looking P type.

 

[Bornin1980s]

The Alexander PSs that Mainline group bought over a 6 year period from 1990-1996 were tweaked in to several different variants, for example, the earlier ones has a back end that went inwards at the top, with a small window, the 1991 ones went inwards at the top of the back end with a larger backed window. The 1992 ones had a flat back end running all of the way up with a roof vent at the side and then the 1994 ones had the same but no vent, the 1995 ones had clustered rear lights fitted.

I guess it is more expensive to tweak bodies now, due to tighter regulations?

 

[Discuss223]

I guess it is more expensive to tweak bodies now, due to tighter regulations?

Certainly the design front ends are heavily regulated, got to be kind to any pedestrians it may encounter.

 

[Volvodart]

Unsure who owns it but it appears to be Mellor Sigma 8 demonstrator MX23 LDV.

Trials of electric buses to begin - The Shetland Times

New electric bus trials will be carried out by Shetland Islands Council to see how battery-powered vehicles work in local conditions. Two buses will be...

www.shetlandtimes.co.uk

Trials of electric buses to begin
January 21, 2025

New electric bus trials will be carried out by Shetland Islands Council to see how battery-powered vehicles work in local conditions.

Two buses will be travelling throughout the isles, with the first 27-seater vehicle having arrived this morning.

This will be closely followed by a second full-sized bus in early February.

The four-month trials will see how the vehicles perform on Shetland roads, in Shetland weather and how they compare with established diesel vehicles.

The trials – costing around £200,000 – are fully-funded by the UK government’s Innovate UK fund, as part of the Rural Energy Hub project.

The council is leasing the buses, and the trials will allow bus operators the opportunity to try the technology at first-hand.

The trials will include journeys with and without passengers, but will not be used for public services.

Information gathered from the trials will be analysed to see if electric buses are a viable alternative for public transport in Shetland.

 

[PG]

Unsure who owns it but it appears to be Mellor Sigma 8 demonstrator MX23 LDV.

Trials of electric buses to begin - The Shetland Times

New electric bus trials will be carried out by Shetland Islands Council to see how battery-powered vehicles work in local conditions. Two buses will be...

www.shetlandtimes.co.uk

The trials will include journeys with and without passengers, but will not be used for public services.

Seems a bit daft not to use them at all for any in service runs?

 

[Bornin1980s]

Unsure who owns it but it appears to be Mellor Sigma 8 demonstrator MX23 LDV.

Trials of electric buses to begin - The Shetland Times

New electric bus trials will be carried out by Shetland Islands Council to see how battery-powered vehicles work in local conditions. Two buses will be...

www.shetlandtimes.co.uk

Surely not, the Sigma project is abandoned.

 

[Mollman]

Surely not, the Sigma project is abandoned.

I think they are testing the concept of electric buses rather than type testing. Shetland has some unique operating conditions and a mix of route types from the trunk Airport route to the inter-island service which travels on a ferry part of the way. I guess someone has a Sigma available to borrow.

 

[Bornin1980s]

What happened to MAN and VDL Bus, once common names, at least in bus chassis? You still see MAN trucks and VDL coaches, but not new uk service buses from either.

 

[GusB]

What happened to MAN and VDL Bus, once common names, at least in bus chassis? You still see MAN trucks and VDL coaches, but not new uk service buses from either.

Vertical integration!

MAN and VDL are still very much alive and well and producing service buses - the Lion's City and Citea respectively. MAN still appears to be producing chassis, according to its website (https://www.man.eu/chassis/en/homepage.html), but that's no good if no domestic company is prepared to build on it. VDL's website doesn't appear to offer any chassis options at all.

Essentially, we've got two main UK manufacturers (three at a push, if you include Optare/Switch) that used to provide bus bodies on a variety of different platforms, but they're all trying to promote their own complete products and they'd rather you bought the whole package from them.

We're seeing the same situation with Volvo; MCV seems to be the only option for buses these days. Scania also has chassis options but if there's no UK manufacturer willing to build on that platform, the only option it has is to try to sell the integral Fencer.

 

[Andyh82]

Would it have been possible for the integral Enviro 400 EV to have been built with the ‘City’ bodywork?

I’m just thinking that TfGM seem to have made the E400 City the image of the Bee network, so much so that every other bus is painted to look like one. Therefore I’m sure they would have liked this body to continue in EV form now it’s no longer a partnership with BYD

 

[Resuwen]

It's a pity it doesn't seem to be available - the City body is the best looking modern bus

 

[Trainman40083]

Vertical integration!

MAN and VDL are still very much alive and well and producing service buses - the Lion's City and Citea respectively. MAN still appears to be producing chassis, according to its website (https://www.man.eu/chassis/en/homepage.html), but that's no good if no domestic company is prepared to build on it. VDL's website doesn't appear to offer any chassis options at all.

Essentially, we've got two main UK manufacturers (three at a push, if you include Optare/Switch) that used to provide bus bodies on a variety of different platforms, but they're all trying to promote their own complete products and they'd rather you bought the whole package from them.

We're seeing the same situation with Volvo; MCV seems to be the only option for buses these days. Scania also has chassis options but if there's no UK manufacturer willing to build on that platform, the only option it has is to try to sell the integral Fencer.

Didn't Volvo and Wright have a disagreement, when Wright started producing their own buses.

 

[Voyager 2953]

Didn't Volvo and Wright have a disagreement, when Wright started producing their own buses.

No; there was some monies owed to Volvo and other suppliers before the takeover by Bamford. The parties were settled and Wright built a few bodies on the B5TL chassis between 2020 and 2021 however as stated above Volvo have MCV as their supplier for bus bodies in a move that cuts down their costs dramatically but also gives them greater control over the product hence why the electrics are simply referred to as Volvo BZLs.

The MCV bodies are cheaper and not as well built as the Wright ones but again Wright themselves are more focused on their own complete product. I’ve always said that Wright bodies belong on Volvo Chassis. A great combination they were. The Gemini series is a testament to that.

 

[Goldfish62]

The MCV bodies are cheaper and not as well built as the Wright ones but again Wright themselves are more focused on their own complete product. I’ve always said that Wright bodies belong on Volvo Chassis. A great combination they were. The Gemini series is a testament to that.

I've yet to travel on a BZL, but I've been on a lot of London B5LH/MCVs and they're very solid vehicles (despite my initial scepticism given where they were manufactured). Has the bodywork quality been lowered for the BZL?

 

[Leyland Bus]

I've yet to travel on a BZL, but I've been on a lot of London B5LH/MCVs and they're very solid vehicles (despite my initial scepticism given where they were manufactured). Has the bodywork quality been lowered for the BZL?

The ones in Manchester (ok they're brand new) are fantastic. Ride well, don't rattle or bang, seats are comfortable and seem fairly well laid out (as far as TfGM spec can be). I liked the interior lighting at night that dims when the bus is moving (with a nice blue hue) then brightens up when the doors open. Much better than bright lights glaring constantly I thought...

When I was at York Pullman, I was regularly signed a B8RLE/MCV Evora for schools, drove one from new til around 3 years old and it was absolutely rock solid throughout, even the after sales was superb, fast and they couldn't do enough to help (we actually found a flaw in a part of the design which they then went on to use our fix in the builds going forwards), so I really can only say praise for them...

 

[py_megapixel]

As a passenger I do think the Manchester BZLs are very nice although I can't say I love the blue accent lighting myself, each to their own though.

One minor annoyance I have with them is the ventilation - they have very loud ventilation fans but felt a bit stuffy to me nonetheless. I think that might also have something to do with the rather odd smell they have inside (has anyone else noticed this?) which I assume is because they are new and will dissipate with time.

 

[Mikey C]

The MCV and Wright bodied B5LHs in London seem pretty comparable in quality to me. Indeed I prefer the MCV ones, as they have bigger windows and I assume I slightly higher roof than the Gemini 3 body.

 

[WibbleWobble]

(with a nice blue hue)

That's not a good thing - blue is a very poor choice for lighting colour because people can be sensitive to blue light - it can cause migraines and nausea! That's why there's things like night mode on Windows computers (and blue light filter screens), and coatings available for glasses.

 

[Leyland Bus]

That's not a good thing - blue is a very poor choice for lighting colour because people can be sensitive to blue light - it can cause migraines and nausea! That's why there's things like night mode on Windows computers (and blue light filter screens), and coatings available for glasses.

I've never known people stand less than a foot away, staring at saloon lights on a bus for lengthy periods of time... I think ambient back lighting is abit different to looking at a phone or computer screen.

 

[kevjs]

I liked the interior lighting at night that dims when the bus is moving (with a nice blue hue) then brightens up when the doors open.

Personally I despise that - NCT have it on their new EV's and it's annoying as hell and ensures you end a trip wide awake (and triggering my Garmin warning of high stress - which is triggered by an increase in Heartrate) instead of ready for bed - when they are on permeant full brightness it ends up being less irritating. Makes taking the taxi home in the late evening more appealing TBH.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

As a Nightshift work I would much prefer a bus to have blue or red saloon lighting