Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[aswilliamsuk]

But where are the orders? If they can't sell in the UK, where are they going to get the European orders from?

It doesn't say where they are to be built, but 300 vehicles were ordered for Bengaluru recently - as well as (in the same story) work on a "global" delivery van - might help give us a clue.

Ashok Leyland's Switch to provide 300 electric buses to Bengaluru

Switch Mobility, a British unit of commercial vehicle maker Ashok Leyland Ltd , said on Tuesday it would provide 300 electric buses to Indian city Bengaluru's public transport agency.

www.reuters.com

LONDON, Nov 16 (Reuters) - Switch Mobility, a British unit of commercial vehicle maker Ashok Leyland Ltd (ASOK.NS), said on Tuesday it would provide 300 electric buses to Indian city Bengaluru's public transport agency.

Switch will supply, operate and maintain the buses for the Bengaluru Metropolitan Transport Corporation under a 12-year contract. Switch said the 300 buses should reduce fossil-fuel consumption by around 5.5 million litres annually.

Competition in the electric bus market is heating up as countries, states and cities push towards zero-emission transport. Companies such as China's BYD Co Ltd (002594.SZ) and Volvo AB (VOLVb.ST) are vying with startups like California's Proterra Inc (PTRA.O) and Britain's Arrival

Ashok Leyland, India's largest bus maker, recently formed Switch, which includes parts of British bus maker Optare, to handle all of its global electrification efforts.

Switch buses are already on the roads in London. The company also plans to start production of a "global" electric van around 2024, joining a growing field of companies racing to bring zero-emission last-mile delivery vehicles to market. read more

Switch's biggest problem is the sluggish progress on the promised EV funding by the Government, as basically no one is buying EV vehicles without additional funding. But there are certainly few diesel buses under the Optare banner either.

 

[GusB]

ADL has received another order from KMB in Hong Kong.

KMB in Hong Kong places order for 72 ADL Enviro500 tri-axles - routeone

Hong Kong's largest bus operator KMB has placed an order with Alexander Dennis for a further72 Enviro500 tri-axle double-deckers.

www.route-one.net

Alexander Dennis has continued its success in the Far East by securing an order for a further 72 Enviro500 double-deckers from KMB, Hong Kong’s largest operator.

The deal calls for 46 buses to a length of 12.8m that will carry 144 passengers, including 92 seated and two wheelchair users. They will be complemented by 26 11.3m examples that will carry a maximum of 124 passengers, with 78 seated and one wheelchair user space. Each will have a steered tag axle to assist manoeuvrability.

Says ADL President and Managing Director Paul Davies: “We are delighted that we continue to meet KMB’s expectations as it once again places its confidence in Alexander Dennis with this latest order for 72 double-deck buses.

“We are honoured to contribute to Hong Kong’s world class transport system, and we look forward to further supporting KMB’s commitment to innovation and first-class customer service.”

KMB operates over 400 routes with a fleet of around 4,000 buses. Of those, more than 2,500 are Enviro500 models supplied to KMB by ADL since 2012, including 56 ordered earlier in 2021.

 

[MotCO]

ADL has received another order from KMB in Hong Kong.

KMB in Hong Kong places order for 72 ADL Enviro500 tri-axles - routeone

Hong Kong's largest bus operator KMB has placed an order with Alexander Dennis for a further72 Enviro500 tri-axle double-deckers.

www.route-one.net

Are Wrightbus out of favour in Hong Kong, or don't they make an Enviro 500 equivalent?

 

[Mikey C]

Slightly surprising that HK are still buying diesel buses, when across the border in Shenzen they've committed fully to electric buses

 

[cnjb8]

Are Wrightbus out of favour in Hong Kong, or don't they make an Enviro 500 equivalent?

They do not make an integral tri-axle decker. They did have orders for their regular two-axle StreetDeck though

 

[Mikey C]

They do not make an integral tri-axle decker. They did have orders for their regular two-axle StreetDeck though

They have done decent business with the Volvo B9L and B8L, though as with the UK they will have lost business to MCV

 

[cnjb8]

They have done decent business with the Volvo B9L and B8L, though as with the UK they will have lost business to MCV

Wright do seem to be moving away from Volvo. It was probably 2017 when the Wright/Volvo combination was last successful

 

[MotCO]

Wright do seem to be moving away from Volvo. It was probably 2017 when the Wright/Volvo combination was last successful

I think Wright are moving / have moved towards in-house chassis. Volvo have certainly partnered with MCV, but did Volvo have any other option? MCV are one of the few body, not chassis, builders. Whether Wright forced Volvo's hand, or if Volvo forced Wright's hand is not clear.

 

[Mikey C]

I think Wright are moving / have moved towards in-house chassis. Volvo have certainly partnered with MCV, but did Volvo have any other option? MCV are one of the few body, not chassis, builders. Whether Wright forced Volvo's hand, or if Volvo forced Wright's hand is not clear.

Both Wrights and the East Lancs sides of Optare used to do decent business bodying Volvo double deckers, but chose to move towards integral buses, allowing MCV to come in and steal that business. Volvo have just launched MCV bodied electric single and double deckers in the UK which will be stiff competition. to Wrights and Switch

 

[Goldfish62]

Both Wrights and the East Lancs sides of Optare used to do decent business bodying Volvo double deckers, but chose to move towards integral buses, allowing MCV to come in and steal that business. Volvo have just launched MCV bodied electric single and double deckers in the UK which will be stiff competition. to Wrights and Switch

Everyone I've spoken to in the industry who has seen the Volvo BZL seems to be impressed with it, and assuming that it lives up to expectations MCV build a quality body then I think it's a smart move.

I have no idea what MCV build quality is like, but anecdotally, travelling on five year old E400H, Volvo B5LH/Wrights and Volvo B5LH/MCV in London only the MCVs do not rattle.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Everyone I've spoken to in the industry who has seen the Volvo BZL seems to be impressed with it, and assuming that it lives up to expectations MCV build a quality body then I think it's a smart move.

I have no idea what MCV build quality is like, but anecdotally, travelling on five year old E400H, Volvo B5LH/Wrights and Volvo B5LH/MCV in London only the MCVs do not rattle.

The B8RLE eVoras i've driven have excellent build quality - i've driven previous generations of MCV (on VDL/MAN chassis) and they're a world ahead of where they used to be. They developed a few rattles after a few 10kkms but still far better than a Wright equivalent.

 

[Eyersey468]

Everyone I've spoken to in the industry who has seen the Volvo BZL seems to be impressed with it, and assuming that it lives up to expectations MCV build a quality body then I think it's a smart move.

I have no idea what MCV build quality is like, but anecdotally, travelling on five year old E400H, Volvo B5LH/Wrights and Volvo B5LH/MCV in London only the MCVs do not rattle.

We have Evosetis and Evolutions and the build quality isn't great. The 66 reg ones based at Withernsea don't seem to be quite as bad, they must have had a good day at the factory then, but I drove one of the 67 plates when it was a fortnight old and honestly thought it was going to fall apart, there were that many rattles, bangs and squeaks. If I bought a new car like it I'd be taking it straight back to the dealer.

 

[CBlue]

The MCV bodied B8RLE's in use on the Cambridge busway also feel far better screwed together than the Eclipses they work alongside which aren't much older. A few squeaks but nothing much more, fairly impressive given the intensive workings they do. (Mixture of bouncing over Cambridge's many potholes or flat out running along an increasingly uneven Guided Busway!)

 

[chiltern trev]

Are Wrightbus out of favour in Hong Kong, or don't they make an Enviro 500 equivalent?

I wonder at what point the Chinese government might ban the purchase of UK buses and dictate that Hong Kong buys only Chinese?

 

[Haru]

Considering HKs E500 are made in China I am guessing it meets the requirements already.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I’ve driven MCV Evolution 2 bodied B8RLE buses and also ridden on Evora bodied variants.

the Evo2 was lovely and quiet, even after many potholes in Glasgow.

lothian buses Evoras are also pretty good, I agree that they are doing better build work than Wrights are atm.

ADL 200/400 buses, so so.
Optare also do decent builds most of the time.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Mod note - post moved from First Glasgow thread

I've heard rumours that the new EV single decks are going to be Yutongs, only a rumour though.

God I hope not. On a side note: Why is the European bus market so weak when it comes to electric buses? I'd prefer it be Enviro 200EVs, personally. Not sure whether Wright currently have a single-deck EV on the market or whether the respective models by Scania, Volvo, MAN, Mercedes or VDL would fit the specifications. Those Enviros are of course also semi-built by BYD. Over here on the continent too, a lot of new electric buses are now being built by Chinese manufacturers. I'm all for a large-scale electric renewal of the fleet, but if (as I have seen happen in some extreme cases) it means the entire bus fleet ends up being built in China (I realise that sometimes final assembly is moved to Europe), I'm no longer so happy about it. Not saying the quality is worse, quite the opposite, clearly Chinese EVs are top-notch and ahead of the game, but I'd prefer it to be a manufacturer closer to home.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

God I hope not. On a side note: Why is the European bus market so weak when it comes to electric buses? I'd prefer it be Enviro 200EVs, personally. Not sure whether Wright currently have a single-deck EV on the market or whether the respective models by Scania, Volvo, MAN, Mercedes or VDL would fit the specifications. Those Enviros are of course also semi-built by BYD. Over here on the continent too, a lot of new electric buses are now being built by Chinese manufacturers. I'm all for a large-scale electric renewal of the fleet, but if (as I have seen happen in some extreme cases) it means the entire bus fleet ends up being built in China (I realise that sometimes final assembly is moved to Europe), I'm no longer so happy about it. Not saying the quality is worse, quite the opposite, clearly Chinese EVs are top-notch and ahead of the game, but I'd prefer it to be a manufacturer closer to home.

I agree with the sentiment. Admittedly from a small sample size, I was able to compare the Volvo 7900E in Harrogate with the Yutongs in Gateshead. The build quality of the Volvos wasn't as good and a bit disappointing as a passenger; can't speak from the technical perspective. At least Arrival is British though it is funded by firms like Hyundai

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Apologies, I seem to have developed an unhealthy habit of going off on a tangent. I think it comes from an urge to discuss some topics more broadly, but I understand that things should be kept on-topic whenever possible.

Anyway, yes, I've only ever travelled on Yutong buses in Denmark (in the UK, my EV experience has been limited to Enviros), but I can't really complain about them for the most part. As you say, build quality seemed fine to me and they were very quiet.

Cost is another important factor in Yutong's favour, I'm sure, but I also remember reading that (in the Danish case) the technical specifications of Yutong and BYD buses were, at the time of procurement, ahead of what European manufacturers were offering. So, rather frustratingly, it seems they just weren't prepared for the recent wave of EV orders and are now paying the price.

I do hope they catch up quickly though, some of my favourite "non-EV" buses are made by the likes of Alexander-Dennis, Scania, Volvo, Mercedes or MAN. Not sure about the UK (there's many cities I haven't been to in a while), but in Denmark, Scania and Volvo buses have been very prominent in the last decades, where as Mercedes and MAN buses are both still very prominent in Germany and Switzerland. The arrival of electric buses is starting to shift the landscape quite a bit. There's one Danish city for instance (Roskilde) where all buses are now Chinese-made and Yutong and BYD now also make up quite a sizeable share of Copenhagen's fleet, with more scheduled to join it soon.

 

[GusB]

The electric vehicle market has broadened somewhat in recent months. Arrival should have their first examples on trial with First by the end of the first quarter of this year (not long to go); Mellor has their Sigma range; the Equipmake Jewel E should be appearing soon, and there was one other German company whose name escapes me.

This is on top of the current offerings from ADL/BYD, Switch, Wrightbus, Yutong and whatever the big continental manufacturers are offering.

 

[Goldfish62]

Mod note - post moved from First Glasgow thread


Not sure whether Wright currently have a single-deck EV on the market.

Wright's single deck offer is the GB Kite Electroliner BEV.

 

[PG]

Wright's single deck offer is the GB Kite Electroliner BEV.

For crying out louds sake, just give it either a code name/number a la E200 or a more sensible name. If I wanted to play buzzword bingo I'd look at a politician's flyer!

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

For crying out louds sake, just give it either a code name/number a la E200 or a more sensible name. If I wanted to play buzzword bingo I'd look at a politician's flyer!

Agreed.

Simply, Wright Hydro/ElectroDeck for DD vehicles OR Hydro/ElectroLiner for Singles, that rolls nicely off the tongue.

 

[Goldfish62]

For crying out louds sake, just give it either a code name/number a la E200 or a more sensible name. If I wanted to play buzzword bingo I'd look at a politician's flyer!

And "GB" seems a rather odd choice for something manufactured in Northern Ireland.

 

[Mrwerdna1]

Could be a reference to the target market?

 

[Goldfish62]

Could be a reference to the target market?

Which would be very odd considering large target markets are Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, neither of which are "GB".

 

[ClydeCoaster]

At least Arrival is British though it is funded by firms like Hyundai

While it is British it was founded and is majority owned by a Russian oligarch, Denis Sverdlov, who was Minister for Communications and Mass Media in Putin’s government for a time. Given the current mood and targeting of those in Putin’s inner circle, will it affect Arrival’s funding and prospects going forward?

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

While it is British it was founded and is majority owned by a Russian oligarch, Denis Sverdlov, who was Minister for Communications and Mass Media in Putin’s government for a time. Given the current mood and targeting of those in Putin’s inner circle, will it affect Arrival’s funding and prospects going forward?

I hope so.

 

[PG]

While it is British it was founded and is majority owned by a Russian oligarch, Denis Sverdlov, who was Minister for Communications and Mass Media in Putin’s government for a time. Given the current mood and targeting of those in Putin’s inner circle, will it affect Arrival’s funding and prospects going forward?

Does anyone know what proportion is owned by Denis Sverdlov and who, and in what proportions, the other owner(s) are?
i.e. Could they be in a position to buy-out if Denis Sverdlov's assets are seized?

 

[ClydeCoaster]

It's listed on the NASDAQ last March, and Forbes reported at the start of trading that Sverdlov would own 76% and that his stock was valued at $10.6BN.

I know not every Russian is a Putin stooge, far from it, but he was actually in the government in charge of controlling the media...

On a separate note, I can't understand how a company can have orders for 64000 vehicles and not actually have a viable demonstrator never mind a production line.

On a separate note, on a city break at the weekend I had a journey in a VDL Citea electric and what an impressive thing it was, no serious rattles or squeaks, and I wonder why they haven't brought it to the UK. I know VDLs principle (only) major customer in the UK was Arriva because they were the importer but I can't help but feeling the UK is missing out on some decent EVs.