c2c Class 357 repaint....

[Tottenham Flyer]

Has the first Class 357 been painted into National Express livery? A white 'electrostar' has just been seen coming out of East Ham Depot being hauled by a GBRF 66. A mate seems to think that it could be 357 203 or 224....
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Just had it confirmed that 357 203 came back to London early this morning in white.

 

[MCR247]

Any pictures?

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

Afraid not yet. Watch this space.

 

[bengley]

I don't follow... Is c2c being rebranded?

 

[CCF23]

The on board announcements, made by the same lady as the Piccadilly line, now say the is a c2c rail service to ... instead of just c2c service. I'm not sure whether this is classed as rebranding?

 

[bengley]

The on board announcements, made by the same lady as the Piccadilly line, now say the is a c2c rail service to ... instead of just c2c service. I'm not sure whether this is classed as rebranding?

Last time I went on a c2c train a few weeks ago, it was still the old one I think. It wasn't the Piccadilly line woman anyway...

 

[me123]

I'd be surprised if NX were to rebrand C2C, given the current developments with the East Coast franchise. Nothing's for definite yet, of course, but let's just say I wouldn't be putting money into anything rail-related for the time being if I was NX.

 

[87015]

I'd be surprised if NX were to rebrand C2C, given the current developments with the East Coast franchise. Nothing's for definite yet, of course, but let's just say I wouldn't be putting money into anything rail-related for the time being if I was NX.

The 357s must be due an overhaul about now, best part of ten years in service, if so they'll have to be re-painted, and NX are the current operator so thats what colour they'll go. NX after all are still insistent they will keep the others if/when the East Coast defaults.

'White' could be ripping the purple vinyls off and going back to the rather attractive white/green livery they were originally in? A few NX stickers could be added for the short term...

 

[Expression357]

This has been public domain for a while -

Read final page of: http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/content/download/13056/166179/c2c_CommuterNews4ppA5june_09.pdf
which was on the trains a couple of weeks ago.

Next unit to go is 357 044.

As for 357203 - she took an interesting run from Derby LIT to East Ham EMUD, via Derby, Loughborough, Oakham, Corby, Kettering, West Hampstead TLK, Upper Holloway, South Tottenham, Stratford, Forest Gate, Woodgrange Park, Barking, Ripple Lane Yard, Barking and East Ham EMUD. (6X57)

 

[WillPS]

Well that's going to look confusing!

It should be more:

c2c
a nationalexpress company

 

[me123]

I see why they'd go for this. indeed, I was surprised that they didn't start this earlier. But I don't think it's a sensible idea at this moment in time. As I've said, all three franchises may be lost in the future, and passengers aren't exactly confident with the National Express name at the moment.

 

[jopsuk]

Indeed- why not just go white and put just the c2c logo on them?

White will at least make life easier for a new operator should Nat Ex lose everything.

 

[bengley]

This has been public domain for a while -

Read final page of: http://www.c2c-online.co.uk/content/download/13056/166179/c2c_CommuterNews4ppA5june_09.pdf
which was on the trains a couple of weeks ago.

Next unit to go is 357 044.

As for 357203 - she took an interesting run from Derby LIT to East Ham EMUD, via Derby, Loughborough, Oakham, Corby, Kettering, West Hampstead TLK, Upper Holloway, South Tottenham, Stratford, Forest Gate, Woodgrange Park, Barking, Ripple Lane Yard, Barking and East Ham EMUD. (6X57)

Wow, that livery looks so bland and awful (not that c2c's current one doesn't of course).

 

[Expression357]

I see why they'd go for this. indeed, I was surprised that they didn't start this earlier. But I don't think it's a sensible idea at this moment in time. As I've said, all three franchises may be lost in the future, and passengers aren't exactly confident with the National Express name at the moment.

The argument says: the unit has corrosion damage, so the vinyls had to come off anyway.

So they might as well do the whiteover.

Note the lack of the silver diagonal lines that you see on the EC/EA trains.

 

[asylumxl]

So their failure on the ECML has been heavily publicised in the media, yet they are intending to stick their name on a successful brand they run?

 

[WillPS]

Yeah, it does say in the article that they're returning them to their base colour of white.

I guess whichever way they look at it they're likely to loose the franchise - it's up for renewal in March 2011, who wants to place a bet on whether they'll make it to then?

 

[Daimler]

Note the lack of the silver diagonal lines that you see on the EC/EA trains.

Thank goodness...

I must say, though, I agree with me123. Were I National Express, I wouldn't want to do this - their brand's been through a tough time of it recently! You'd think c2c would want to distance themselves from their parent company.

If they must do a rebrand, why not move away from the incredibly pointless, stupid, and annoying name 'c2c' altogether?

 

[johnb]

Because c2c has a good reputation, having taken the godawful LTS service and turned it around into something that performs better than the Swiss railways. While the brand name is a bit early-2000s-web-company, it has strong positive associations among commuters - hence why it hasn't been renamed like One was.

 

[Expression357]

Don't have any pictures however...saw 357203 today. She is still minus labelling/branding which is to be added shortly etc - and all interior features such as seats etc. However, she has had the corrosion works and repaint. Now back within the friendly confines of East Ham EMUD, it will now be given a thorough interior clean, so that the interior can be pieced back together. Should come out like it's a brand new train when she returns to passenger service in late July/early August.

On first inspection have to say I like the colours. White, with deep blue doors and still with the original white/yellow frontage for the driving cabs.

These units will however prove an interesting challenge to keep clean.

Also saw 357044 - the next unit to go. Last time I saw her she was minus seating etc per 203, but still with c2c vinyl.
Today, now minus c2c vinyl, i.e. in LTS/Prism White and Racing Green. It has kept amazingly well to say how long it has been under c2c vinyl.

 

[Expression357]

Newly relogoed 357203 likely to be out in service at some point tomorrow.

c2c are using all available stock to strengthen peak services for NXEA industrial action.

 

[LondonLarry]

Will NX get a chance to finish their re-livery of c2c before they get taken over by a Stagecoach Group led consortium...?

 

[O L Leigh]

Stagecoach only want the buses. They're not interested in taking on the rail operations.

O L Leigh

 

[WillPS]

From what I've read, it seems Stagecoach/CVC would like NXEA and C2C, but Lord Adonis (quite rightly in my opinion) will have nothing of it as it would effectively allow NX to escape their penalty.

 

[EWS 58038]

Lord A was out of the line. Yes he can terminate the eastcoast franshise... but C2C and NXEA are completely different self sustaining businesses that actually have nothing to do with National Express. They only got a loan from NX to start a company, operate it, and repay the loan to National Express plus some profit to Natex. By making seperate companys National Express can simply not be forced to give up their business on one company if the other goes wrong. And by doing it this way, A company within the company can not be supported by other assets of that company (you still follow me). So... Lord A was right to terminate the eastcoast franshise... but he can not pull the plug on C2C and East Anglia as these have nothing to do with the Eastcoast company.

It's all in Modern Railways magazine this month. You'll love it.

 

[395 Olympic Javelin]

Are they any photos of 357203 in the new livery?

 

[Expression357]

Are they any photos of 357203 in the new livery?

I'm surprised they haven't been posted yet; there were some cameras on the downroad at Limehouse when 203 came in on Thursday afternoon.

I'll tell you one thing, it'll look strange in 12 car formation if it gets attached to 357010 (Green Train) and then some other 357xxx in Blue.

357203 looks smart enough. Quiet Coach labels on the exterior are now white and sky blue. Navy Blue doors I've not made up my mind about yet, but it looks smart, even if not exciting.The unit as a whole shines up a treat.

The saddest thing was, that within 16 hours of entering passenger traffic it had a broken window - somethings don't change on the LTSR.

 

[WillPS]

Lord A was out of the line. Yes he can terminate the eastcoast franshise... but C2C and NXEA are completely different self sustaining businesses that actually have nothing to do with National Express. They only got a loan from NX to start a company, operate it, and repay the loan to National Express plus some profit to Natex. By making seperate companys National Express can simply not be forced to give up their business on one company if the other goes wrong. And by doing it this way, A company within the company can not be supported by other assets of that company (you still follow me). So... Lord A was right to terminate the eastcoast franshise... but he can not pull the plug on C2C and East Anglia as these have nothing to do with the Eastcoast company.

It's all in Modern Railways magazine this month. You'll love it.

If they're nothing to do with National Express, then why did they see fit to slap NX vinyls all over their trains?! Sounds a lot like guff.

 

[jopsuk]

National Express don't own the vast majority of the coaches that run under their name.

However, I'm sure that in the discussion about the NXEA strike it was mentioned that NXEA, C2C and NXEC don't produce seperate accounts, that they are all included as "Rail Division" in National Express Group's annual accounts. Which is the truth? Either they are part of the main company, and not liable to produce sperate accounts, or they are licenced operations using the brand, in which case they must file sperate accounts.

 

[jon0844]

Do the new trains have onboard posters and signs with loads of white space and tiny writing that even someone with good eyesight will struggle to read? Like route maps and safety notices?

It seems that someone at National Express puts design before function.

 

[johnb]

National Express don't own the vast majority of the coaches that run under their name.

However, I'm sure that in the discussion about the NXEA strike it was mentioned that NXEA, C2C and NXEC don't produce seperate accounts, that they are all included as "Rail Division" in National Express Group's annual accounts. Which is the truth? Either they are part of the main company, and not liable to produce sperate accounts, or they are licenced operations using the brand, in which case they must file sperate accounts.

They are separate limited liability companies that are 100% owned by NEG. Each company files separate accounts which are available from Companies House.

However for the purposes of group accounts (annual reports, etc), parent companies are allowed to consolidate their subsidiary companies as if they were all the same entity, which NX has chosen to do for its separate rail subsidiaries.

It is unequivocally true that NEG has no legal responsibility towards NXEC's creditors, any more than shareholders in Enron had a legal responsibility to throw in extra money after Enron went bust to bail out its creditors. That's what 'limited liability' means and why it exists.

The question, which I'm not sure has been resolved clearly by anyone, is whether there is a legal clause in the NXEA and C2C franchise agreements under which the franchises are void if NXEA and C2C's parent company owns another franchise that defaults. Adonis seemed to think there is; others seem to think there isn't.