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C2C class 720 updates

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chris11256

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None whatsoever. I'd heard that the Alstom strike at c2c has caused serious delays and the first unit isn't expected in service until at least next year.
 
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Peter Sarf

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chris11256 said:
None whatsoever. I'd heard that the Alstom strike at c2c has caused serious delays and the first unit isn't expected in service until at least next year.
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Thanks. Alstom Strike ?. Oh well the "later this year" I think i read upthread never did mean anything as usual.
 
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Purple Train

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Bletchleyite said:
Legroom isn't great either, but if you're 5' 11" and long in the body I can see how you might fit.

The width is the greatest issue - only the skinniest people will fit within one seat width. I didn't measure them but they feel about 1-2" narrower than the 350/2's seats, very similar to those 3+2 schoolkid coaches which I understand to be banned outright from most RRB work.

3+2 seating simply shouldn't ever be done in vehicles longer than 20m as these tend to be too narrow. (There are exceptions - 323s and 165/166 are unusually wide for 23m vehicles). 720s are 2.77m wide and have very thick sidewalls (about 1" thicker than 350s) while 350s are 2.80m. That means about 3" less width, and that is very noticeable.

Due to the very contoured shape of the seats, not fitting in one seat width isn't just an issue if others are sat there. The shape of the curve pushes uncomfortably into your back. So it can't, unlike some other 3+2, be used as comfortable 2+1.
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The seats are fairly narrow, yes - but I wouldn't say that only the skinniest people would fit. I did have a chat with some locals about the seats (very scientific I know) as I didn't feel I would be the best judge of seat narrow-ness given I'm quite small, and the only thing they really agreed on about the seats was that they were wide enough with enough legroom - certainly when I was up there I didn't feel much difference in width between 720 seats and Renatus 321 seats (though I'm hideously unsuitable as a candidate to compare legroom).
The seating could be better, yes - but it's much more comfortable than a 700/717 ironing board (though not as comfortable as, say, a 458) - and besides the seating they're fine units.
 
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JonathanH

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Peter Sarf said:
Alstom Strike ?
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https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-...alstom-workers-begin-strike-over-pay-attacks/

C2C rail passengers warned of disruption as Alstom workers begin strike over pay attacks

Sunday 8 May 2022

Passengers using the C2C rails line between London and Southend are set for considerable disruption over the coming weeks as maintenance engineers employed by Alstom take strike action in a dispute over pay and conditions.

Strikes are due to begin tomorrow (Monday 9 May) with further action scheduled for 13, 16, 20, 23, 27, 30 May and 3 June. Disruption to services is likely on both the strike days and on days following the strike action. An overtime ban is also in force.

The workers are taking action following a series of attacks on their pay and condition and concerns about high sickness and low morale at Alstom, the French company that bought Bombardier in 2020.

The workers recorded a 95 per cent yes vote in favour of strike action.

Alstom has offered just 2.5 per cent on pay (backdated February 2021), which, at well below the measure of real inflation of nine percent (RPI), Unite says is a pay cut.

In 2021, Alstom reported net profits of 172 million euros. Managers recently received a 10 per cent pay increase.

The company is also removing on-call payments for the workers and staff travel permits, forcing a change in shift patterns which reduces annual leave and has reduced the holiday entitlement for new starters.

Workers report low morale and with very high levels of sickness related to a bullying culture at the company.

Unite general secretary Sharon Graham said: “While managers are to enjoy a 10 per cent increase in pay, Alstom workers are seeing their terms and conditions being attacked and are being offered a pay cut. This is simply unacceptable to Unite.

“This is a hugely profitable company - there is no case whatsoever for these cuts which are being driven by Alstom’s greed.

“Alstom needs to register the strength of feeling among our members who are determined to protect their pay and conditions, with the total support of their union.”

The 43-plus workers, who are members of Unite, the UK’s leading union, are based at depots in East Ham and Shoeburyness and are responsible for maintaining and monitoring the trains for C2C.

Unite has been involved in long-running negotiations to resolve this dispute but the company has failed to table proposals that meet members’ expectations.

Unite national officer Harish Patel said: “This dispute will inevitably cause considerable disruption for passengers using the C2C line but this dispute is entirely of Alstom’s own making. Workers are taking strike action because they feel they have nothing left to lose.

“Unite has put forward proposals to resolve this dispute but these have been dismissed by the company. Even at the late stage disruption to rail passengers can be minimised by the employer returning to the negotiating table and making a realistic offer.”
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Bletchleyite

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Purple Train said:
The seating could be better, yes - but it's much more comfortable than a 700/717 ironing board (though not as comfortable as, say, a 458) - and besides the seating they're fine units.
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I tried a 717 immediately afterwards and other than the drab colour scheme found it superior in every way possible.
 
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JonathanH

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Peter Sarf said:
Thanks.

Is Ilford staffed by Alstom as well and, if so, what is different there ?.

I had not realised Alstom are still making a profit after swallowing Bombardier ?.
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Ilford is run by Alstom, in particular with regard to the former 'level 5' depot but latterly with regard to 345 / 710 / 720 but the c2c contract at East Ham is effectively a stand alone operation in the context of this dispute. Maintenance of the 357 fleet is contracted out to Alstom by c2c at East Ham.
 
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JonathanH

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TRAX said:
Alstom is making a bigger profit after gobbling Bombardier up.
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Of course that doesn't mean that more profit is being made at East Ham when the specific revenue and costs of that operation are compared.
 
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chris11256

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I think it’s still next year. Haven’t spotted any units at East Ham, unless they’re hiding in Shoebury carriage sidings.
 
357

357

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There are some at East Ham in the shed and the rest are at Shoeburyness.

Driver training still hasn't started.
 
357

357

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chris11256 said:
Thats interesting, any indication of when training will start?
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Supposedly when the new timetable/roster starts in December there will be time allocated for the training course.

However, nothing has been confirmed yet.
 
Dstock7080

Dstock7080

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357 said:
There are some at East Ham in the shed and the rest are at Shoeburyness.

Driver training still hasn't started.
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not seen a 720 at East Ham for a few weeks, especially with roads 6/7/8 out of use being readied for 720s.
 
357

357

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Dstock7080 said:
not seen a 720 at East Ham for a few weeks, especially with roads 6/7/8 out of use being readied for 720s.
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Possibly the ones I saw were buried at the back of the shed with 357s on top of them.
 
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73128

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720606/11 and three others were in Wembley Yard this lunchitme. Any idea what those three are please?
 
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Peter Sarf

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Also 720609 lurking at the back of Willesden depot (by the DC lines visible from the high level).
 
357 LTSRail

357 LTSRail

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Nicholas Lewis said:
Clearly don't need them might as well add them to GA 20 not required and transfer to another operator.
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They are definitely needed, for a number of reasons. Chiefly capacity.

Does anyone know when we’re expecting to see these units in service? Has the TOC accepted any for driver training yet?
 
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