CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Peter Sarf]

Interesting moves today. A pair of 197's on an early morning run from Chester to Crewe and back before the scheduled 9.20 daily run to Llandudno. There are a number of overnight runs along the North Wales coast by ROG as well. It looks like they are ramping up testing to get as many sets ready as they can.

Another interesting move is apparently 66531 has taken 197014 from Crewe BH to Wolverton this afternoon !.

 

[GalaxyDog]

There was a rake of 197s - a 2 x 4cosch set coupled up at Chester late this afternoon. One set was clearly 197102 but the other I could not see.

 

[Anonymous10]

There was a rake of 197s - a 2 x 4cosch set coupled up at Chester late this afternoon. One set was clearly 197102 but the other I could not see.

The /1 sets are 3 carriage

 

[EngFocus]

Interestingly enough the TfW unit diagrams that someone got through a Freedom of Information request show a half hourly service on the Bidston line using 2 230s and 2 197s?

Do you have a link to or any further information about this?

 

[craigybagel]

Do you have a link to or any further information about this?

This was posted earlier in this thread

Unit Diagrams December 2022 - a Freedom of Information request to Transport for Wales

It would be grateful if you could please forward a complete set of the (LTP) unit diagrams valid from the December 2022 timetable change. Yours faithfully, Aaron Roscoe

www.whatdotheyknow.com

This shows the TfW planned unit diagrams from December. A 197 is planned for a Manchester-North Wales diagram from December, according to the spreadsheet; it is the one which works the 10:25 and 15:25 off Manchester Airport to Llandudno.

 

[L401CJF]

Do you have a link to or any further information about this?

Also posted earlier on today in the 230 thread that the additional path requests have been granted meaning a 2 train per hour service can be implemented.

Link to post in 230 thread

 

[Jacob Porrett]

**Mr Donnington Updated (30/11/22)**

TFW Class 197110 is the latest arrival at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal. (The first photo in the selection) Another 3 car variant to add to the growing collection. In total there are 15.5 units at the terminal with a mix of CL 197/0 (2 Car) and 197/1 (3 Car) units. Many of which will have to have further work undertaken before going on test and then into service.

 

[EngFocus]

Also posted earlier on today in the 230 thread that the additional path requests have been granted meaning a 2 train per hour service can be implemented.

Link to post in 230 thread

Read the ORR ruling this morning, makes for interesting reading. Hoping it will be implemented by May.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Another interesting move is apparently 66531 has taken 197014 from Crewe BH to Wolverton this afternoon !.

It was cancelled today.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Another interesting move is apparently 66531 has taken 197014 from Crewe BH to Wolverton this afternoon !.

66531 is at Ditton O'Connor Sidings Freightliner so it was never at Crewe in the first pleace?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Read the ORR ruling this morning, makes for interesting reading. Hoping it will be implemented by May.

Network Rail doesn’t exactly come out of that dispute with flying colours. Considering they rejected all the TfW half hourly services, despite the freight path conflicts only existing in certain hours. Paragraphs 76 to 80 underline this point quite effectively.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Network Rail doesn’t exactly come out of that dispute with flying colours. Considering they rejected all the TfW half hourly services, despite the freight path conflicts only existing in certain hours. Paragraphs 76 to 80 underline this point quite effectively.

It seems what they did is rejected both proposals with a view along the lines of "oi, you two, go bang your heads together and come back and tell me when you've got an agreement", which doesn't seem fundamentally unreasonable.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It was cancelled today.

You say cancelled today (30/11/2022) but did it run yesterday (29/11/2022) ?.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

It seems what they did is rejected both proposals with a view along the lines of "oi, you two, go bang your heads together and come back and tell me when you've got an agreement", which doesn't seem fundamentally unreasonable.

That isn’t how timetabling works, there are comprehensive decision criteria listed in the Network Code that Network Rail should use to determine which competing timetable aspiration succeeds when there isn’t capacity for all. It is determined on an individual train path basis, so a blanket rejection of both complete timetable proposals smacks of very poor management rather than actual difficulty coming to a decision.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

You say cancelled today (30/11/2022) but did it run yesterday (29/11/2022) ?.

It did yes. Just looked now. 66531 with 197014.

 

[The_Train]

You say cancelled today (30/11/2022) but did it run yesterday (29/11/2022) ?.

There was certainly a Basford Hall to Wolverton working which happened on the 29th so I presume this to be 197014?

Realtime Trains | 6Q98 1035 Crewe Bas Hall S.S.M. to Wolverton Centre Sidings | 29/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 6Q98 1035 departure from Crewe Bas Hall S.S.M. to Wolverton Centre Sidings on 29/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[SuperLuke2334]

This was posted earlier in this thread

It's very interesting how the Conwy Valley is booked to go back to a 153, is this right, or will it continue as now as a 197?

 

[craigybagel]

It's very interesting how the Conwy Valley is booked to go back to a 153, is this right, or will it continue as now as a 197?

There was talk at the time that their introduction on Blaneau might only be a temporary measure. Logistically it's an awkward route to run them on at present as there are no other 197s on the coast so they need their own dedicated ECS run from Chester in the morning. In future when they're running every service in North Wales bar the odd 67, it'll be a lot easier to get them to and from the branch.

For a phased introduction, diagrams that keep them closer to Chester are much more logical.

 

[Philip]

If the diagrams on the spreadsheet are still holding up, there should be a 197 working a Manchester-Llandudno diagram from a week on Monday. Perhaps this will be the first 3-car unit to enter service?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

There was talk at the time that their introduction on Blaneau might only be a temporary measure. Logistically it's an awkward route to run them on at present as there are no other 197s on the coast so they need their own dedicated ECS run from Chester in the morning. In future when they're running every service in North Wales bar the odd 67, it'll be a lot easier to get them to and from the branch.

For a phased introduction, diagrams that keep them closer to Chester are much more logical.

That does make sense, thanks. Hopefully it won't be too long until they're back on the branch as having 150s and 153s coming up from Canton must be a pain.

 

[craigybagel]

That does make sense, thanks. Hopefully it won't be too long until they're back on the branch as having 150s and 153s coming up from Canton must be a pain.

Not especially. 150s and 153s rotate between Crewe and Canton easy enough - the last Shrewsbury - Cardiff and Cardiff - Crewe services at night are used for that (and continue to be from December). There's a rake that leaves Crewe early every morning that normally drops off a unit or two at Chester and then continues to Llandudno Junction with the Blaneau unit and another unit for an early Llandudno service.

That ECS trip still runs, but with a 197 on Blaneau it needs to travel down from Chester separately.

 

[175001]

197010 on the branch today. First day in service?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

197010 on the branch today. First day in service?

It would appear so... Good news for the 197s! Hopefully a 3 car will be accepted in time for the Manchester Llandudno December diagram.

 

[superalbs]

Do we know what first class will look like yet?

 

[GalaxyDog]

The Civitys have First Class?

How has the 197 reliability been, in comparison to their more unfortunate relatives in the Midlands?

 

[AlexNL]

The Civitys have First Class?

Some will, but for some reason it'll be retrofitted later.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Do we know what first class will look like yet?

I'd love to know! I just hope that TfW haven't been stupid and used the same seats in First as in Standard like GA did on their 745s. If they have then it will be one of the few mistakes made by ordering their new fleet, its pretty good mostly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd love to know! I just hope that TfW haven't been stupid and used the same seats in First as in Standard like GA did on their 745s. If they have then it will be one of the few mistakes made by ordering their new fleet, its pretty good mostly.

The 745 first class is a complete sham - far more so than the oft-complained about 80x first. That said, the GA MK3s they replaced had a cruddy first class too. The armchairs didn't recline, mandated anyone over 5"10 to slouch, and they only represented 4/5 of the seats in first class - the other fifth was 376-style seating at the carriage ends and randomly scattered in the middle of the saloon! 376 seats as First Class!

A key point here is that 197 First Class customers will have no previous expectations as they're not used to First Class on the route, unless they've recently become accustomed to it on Holyhead Cardiff, in which case let's hope the seats aren't much less comfortable than those on the MK4s. Not as hard a challenge as it would have been several years ago, mind you. They were great under LNER but on TfW the lack of the headrest has really reduced their comfort, the reclines are largely broken and the black leather looks very tired.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 745 first class is a complete sham - far more so than the oft-complained about 80x first. That said, the GA MK3s they replaced had a cruddy first class too. The armchairs didn't recline, mandated anyone over 5"10 to slouch, and they only represented 4/5 of the seats in first class - the other fifth was 376-style seating at the carriage ends and randomly scattered in the middle of the saloon! 376 seats as First Class!

At least it's 2+1. The real sham 1st is found on LNR's 2+2 seated units where it's inferior to Standard. It's not like London-Norwich is a particularly long journey.

As for these units I'd probably expect if they've gone with Sophias for Standard they'll also have gone with Fainsa for 1st for economies of scale, so you'll likely see the same seat as in 1st on the 80x, I forget what it's called.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

At least it's 2+1. The real sham 1st is found on LNR's 2+2 seated units where it's inferior to Standard. It's not like London-Norwich is a particularly long journey.

I feel as though you've added this bit on purpose because you know the way you make out it's a fact they're inferior annoys me; I've said time and time again that just because you happen to like Grammar seats, and therefore would rather sit in those than the Compin ones provided in first class, does not make them inferior to everyone.

It's subjective, and overall first class on LNR offers recline, better legroom, larger pull down tables, window blinds and more privacy, and on a 350/2 the benefits are all the greater.