Bob Price
Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2019
- Messages
- 1,039
197002 passed Crewe cameras today heading for Chester. It will be returning at about 10.30 and can be seen on the YouTube Crewe camera 5 feed.
That can happen if no one else has posted in the thread in the meantime. Not sure that there is a way around it. Perhaps include the date in any new posts?Only running Chester to Crewe today.
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What the heck do you have to do to make a new post in this forum? The above text was posted yestery. This post is posted on the 24th. However the forum keeps merging them.
The Llandudno and BF runs look like they are happening today (the 24th)
Nope. The forum moderators have enabled an auto-merge system to encourage members to edit old posts (or use the multi-quote function when replying to multiple posts).That can happen if no one else has posted in the thread in the meantime. Not sure that there is a way around it. Perhaps include the date in any new posts?
Wow, seeing it moving the lack of yellow ends and big red patch on the front looks really, really odd.
Fantastic to see it on my local branch.
As a 195 driver, they look better than ours!
I'm slowly getting used to non-yellow ends, but that red makes it look like S-Stock wearing a Groucho Marx mask*.Also more practical due to the gangway, though I guess less space for the driver.
I think the red gangway looks OK as it hides the dead flies a bit. Yellow gangways look awful as it just draws attention to them.
I’m not convinced a red gangway is really compliant with the relevant standard, as it should avoid use of colours that have operational meanings (so the likes of red and green).I think the red gangway looks OK as it hides the dead flies a bit. Yellow gangways look awful as it just draws attention to them.
Would they be able to go out onto the network if they weren't compliant?I’m not convinced a red gangway is really compliant with the relevant standard, as it should avoid use of colours that have operational meanings (so the likes of red and green).
Interestingly the 230s were originally pictured with red fronts but now been given yellow - I thought that might be because of a violation of the standard but if so how come the 197 has been allowed out with a red front?I’m not convinced a red gangway is really compliant with the relevant standard, as it should avoid use of colours that have operational meanings (so the likes of red and green).
You’ve got a hell of a commute eh!Fantastic to see it on my local branch.
As a 195 driver, they look better than ours!
Especially when I've been banned from doing so basically from March 2020...You’ve got a hell of a commute eh!
Yes, that is one of the few things TfW/KeolisAmey got right about the specification for the class 197s. Northern were absolutely nuts going for non-gangwayed units.Must admit prefer the gangway for easy access if coupling up compared (for example)to a 2 car Class 195.
Fantastic working environment in a 195/331 cab which should be the prime function of a driving cab. The large window with central seat is far better than being squashed into a third of that space.Northern were absolutely nuts going for non-gangwayed units.
Fantastic working environment in a 195/331 cab which should be the prime function of a driving cab. The large window with central seat is far better than being squashed into a third of that space.
I disagree - they may not have needed to work in multiple initially but with 3 and 4-car units there is still the possibility of multiple working in future. WMR have gangways on their 3-car 172s and 4-car 196s after all, and SWR have gangways on the 5-car class 444s. Only when you get to 7 or 8 coach units (which if run in pairs would create 14 or 16 coach trains which wouldn't fit in sufficient stations for most purposes) do gangways probably become an irrelevance. Even a 6-car unit (with vehicles shorter than 23m admittedly) should have gangways - with 21.8m vehicles a 6-car unit coupling up with a 5-car unit would make an 11-car formation coming out at a similar length to a 12-car formation of class 450s out of Waterloo.Of course, Northern could have avoided the issue entirely by ordering 3 and 4-car units instead of 2s and 3s.
I don’t get the obsession with gangways.What is the railway for? Drivers or passengers?
Of course, Northern could have avoided the issue entirely by ordering 3 and 4-car units instead of 2s and 3s. TfW needed 2s because of their portion working plans.
Though, to be fair, there is the revenue benefit if the guard can access the whole train.I don’t get the obsession with gangways.
How long do passengers spend on the train in the average week and how many wish they had a gangway to walk through between units.
Contrary to popular belief cab comfort is extremely important. Do office workers have to work 9 hours a day cramped into 4 sq feet of space?
195/331’s were built for DOO. They were built by the time of the agreement to keep guards.Though, to be fair, there is the revenue benefit if the guard can access the whole train.
Though, to be fair, there is the revenue benefit if the guard can access the whole train.
Though, to be fair, there is the revenue benefit if the guard can access the whole train.
How long they spend on the train is irrelvant to the need for gangways - the need for them is:I don’t get the obsession with gangways.
How long do passengers spend on the train in the average week and how many wish they had a gangway to walk through between units.
Contrary to popular belief cab comfort is extremely important. Do office workers have to work 9 hours a day cramped into 4 sq feet of space?
The initial artists impressions also lack end gangways.195/331’s were built for DOO. They were built by the time of the agreement to keep guards.
- As mentioned Northern intended the CAF trains for DOO.How long they spend on the train is irrelvant to the need for gangways - the need for them is:
- to allow the guard to get through
- to allow the catering trolley (if provided) to get through
- shortly after boarding, to allow passengers to walk through to find a (prefered) seat
- shortly after boarding, having used the nearest door while rushing to make a tight connection, to move to the correct portion for their destination
- shortly after being told by the guard that they are in the wrong portion for their destination, to move to the correct portion
- shortly before the train divides, to move the correct portion, having sat in the wrong portion due to lack of (prefered) seat availability in the correct portion
Precisely. They were never intended to have gangways because arriva thought that DOO was a done deal and they would win the dispute no problem.The initial artists impressions also lack end gangways.