TrainTrackJack
Member
Surely a driver ambling along to come round a corner and see a big red board on the other track would cause a bit of hassle if it was unexpected....
Add:-How long they spend on the train is irrelvant to the need for gangways - the need for them is:
- to allow the guard to get through
- to allow the catering trolley (if provided) to get through
- shortly after boarding, to allow passengers to walk through to find a (prefered) seat
- shortly after boarding, having used the nearest door while rushing to make a tight connection, to move to the correct portion for their destination
- shortly after being told by the guard that they are in the wrong portion for their destination, to move to the correct portion
- shortly before the train divides, to move the correct portion, having sat in the wrong portion due to lack of (prefered) seat availability in the correct portion
- to reach an alternative toilet if the nearest one is occupied or out of order (particularly important on suburban stock like the Civity DMUs which have limited toilet provision)
The PASSCOM’s on modern units put you straight through to the driver without applying the brakes. Quicker than walking the length of the train.Add:-
For passengers to be able to contact the guard in the event of problems if in the other portion.
That looks pretty decent to be fair, better than I expected. I'm looking forward to some of the luxury features like a bin that's actually inside the cabI was quite surprised at the space in the cab actually. 2nd man's seat folds forward and locks into position. Right hand side drivers panel folds outwards, so giving more space.
It's far from a great photo, as it was taken through the glass, but does give an idea of the space. Obviously though, he window is small.
That’s the bonus of power operated cab doors. Our units wouldn’t be so bad if the door panels were opposite each other instead of staggered. At least at the doors nearest the cab should have been adjacent but then I guess they were designed not to have guard door controls at all.Also nice to see that unlike the farce with the awkwardly placed saloon panels on the Northern units these have door control panels in the cab for guards to use.
Indeed - it just seems like a very awkward work around that Northern came up with. I'm grateful that TfW had the guards guarantee in place at the time of the 197s being ordered and they've been given proper facilities for working the train.That’s the bonus of power operated cab doors. Our units wouldn’t be so bad if the door panels were opposite each other instead of staggered. At least at the doors nearest the cab should have been adjacent but then I guess they were designed not to have guard door controls at all.
I assume they’ll be very similar to our units when it comes to the door controls with ASDO and ASDO override etc. Takes a bit of getting used to but once you’ve worked them a couple of times it all becomes 2nd nature.
Would it not be the same as in existing units with gangways. Basically what is the cab door when the cab is in use, becomes the panel sealing off one side of the cab area, (with the gangway door doing the opposite side). The gangway then becomes open to the vestibule or saloon, so is obviously available to passengers.I think they look quite good, actually.
My one question re the gangway - given that the gangway is on the other side of the cab-to-saloon door, how obvious is it to the passenger that the gangway is available for use in those circumstances when it is?
I don't know; I've never actually used one, but I think I get the idea.Would it not be the same as in existing units with gangways.
In the good old days when TPE ran the Manchester Airport to Windermere service with their Class 185 units, my good lady wife and I always pre-booked First Class seats to ensure of a relaxed journey both ways.There seems to be very little or no strategic application of where First Class is or isn't needed. It just turns up, or doesn't, where the rolling stock has it.
First Class used to be provided on express services between Manchester Airport and Blackpool North, where it was always well-used, but it has been completely withdrawn now.
Good question. Nothing's been said publicly about that one yet.Sorry if I missed it as I'm not on here much at the moment, but does anyone know what's happening to the 197s that have first class now that the more Mark 4 sets are happening...?
Make sense to have 1st class on all Manc - Swansea and Cardiff - N Wales trainsSorry if I missed it as I'm not on here much at the moment, but does anyone know what's happening to the 197s that have first class now that the more Mark 4 sets are happening...?
There were more than enough 197s with first class in the franchise spec to do all Swansea-Manchesters anyway - we don't know whether KeolisAmey planned to use the rest on Cardiff-Holyheads, but if they had it would have left the Cardiff-Liverpool services as the only Cardiff-N.Wales trains (I know Liverpool isn't north Wales, but Wrexham is) without first class. If TfW/WAG are still persisting with the hypocritical idea of building 77 diesel-mechanical units while asking Westminster for more electrification, then would the four units released by the mark 4s on Manchesters be sufficient to cover the Cardiff-Liverpool workings?Make sense to have 1st class on all Manc - Swansea and Cardiff - N Wales trains
That livery, particularly the red door/gangway, is shocking - truly dire!
Personally I don't believe there should be any first class on any non INTERCITY tocs. More standard class seats of better comfort would be a greater benefit. Putting 1st on the 197s is just more self aggrandisement by the WG/TfW.There were more than enough 197s with first class in the franchise spec to do all Swansea-Manchesters anyway - we don't know whether KeolisAmey planned to use the rest on Cardiff-Holyheads, but if they had it would have left the Cardiff-Liverpool services as the only Cardiff-N.Wales trains (I know Liverpool isn't north Wales, but Wrexham is) without first class. If TfW/WAG are still persisting with the hypocritical idea of building 77 diesel-mechanical units while asking Westminster for more electrification, then would the four units released by the mark 4s on Manchesters be sufficient to cover the Cardiff-Liverpool workings?
Alternatively, the franchise spec called for some of the first class units to be delivered as either 'first class ready' or with declassified first class. If they went down the 'first class ready' route, these units were to be converted to the full 'first class fitted' specification at some point after introduction (2024 if I recall correctly). I wonder whether the possibility of additional mark 4s was always at the back of their minds and that the 'first class ready' option was there so that they could easily reduce the number of first class units - by not going ahead with the convertion from 'first class ready' to 'first class fitted' when the time comes.
I'm not sure about the idea of there being INTERCITY TOCs and non-INTERCITY TOCs, clearly there are some TOCs where their entire business is INTERCITY services but there are also some with a mix of service types. There are also grey areas between the different service types, most obviously the Swansea-Manchester route which is borderline between INTERCITY and Regional Express. I don't think I would argue against removing first class from suburban stock, such as SWR's class 450s, but I'm less sure about things like TPE and SWR's Portsmouth and Weymouth fasts - perhaps that suggests those services are a bit 'intercityish' as well?Personally I don't believe there should be any first class on any non INTERCITY tocs. More standard class seats of better comfort would be a greater benefit. Putting 1st on the 197s is just more self aggrandisement by the WG/TfW.
The ROG drivers are driving the TFW 197 units on test, it's nice to see the units at Chester and Llandudno junction. They even got on the Conwy valley line on there travels, there's lots of pics popping up of 197002 on its travels along the N Wales coast.
That livery, particularly the red door/gangway, is shocking - truly dire!
Presumably they will have overhead racks? Most trains do after all, and I'm told that the Civity platform's overhead racks are very spacious.Yes, I've seen one a few times at Llandudno Junction. I see that, as usual for a middle-doored train, it looks like luggage racks were thought unnecessary. Given the very long-distance routes they're planned to operate this seems a poor decision, and I really hope I'm wrong and I just didn't see them.
The other TfW units still have yellow ends - even the 230s which were originally shown with red ends - and most have a black surround to the windows.A bit harsh, it's just grey with red doors, like all other TFW units. I do think it's a shame the body side doesn't have anywhere to put a large "T" logo on the upper body as with most of the other classes - an unusual branding point which I've grown to really quite like.
I hope the 197 do indeed have decent overhead luggage racks.Presumably they will have overhead racks? Most trains do after all, and I'm told that the Civity platform's overhead racks are very spacious.
I can't find my measurements for the existing fleets at the moment but if I recall correctly both the 175s and 158s have more luggage stack area on the floor plan than the 197s. Think one of the luggage stacks on a 158 is over a metre long.
I don't think that the 175s have any home to go to when they leave TfW.I hope the 197 do indeed have decent overhead luggage racks.
I travel from Bristol to North Wales a few times a year with a bog standard 60 litre rucksack, which doesn't fit in the quick frankly pathetic overhead racks on a 175, result in much unnecessary luggage on seats.
If anyone is going to take on the 175s I trust they will fit new overhead racks!
I wish TFW would retain the 175's for the long distance work, it won't happen unfortunately. They are nice units now after all the problems got resolved and the passengers like them on long journeys with their high toilets provision compared to the 197's being another advantage.I don't think that the 175s have any home to go to when they leave TfW.