It's how many were out at the time, which did match the amount of diagrams.
There does seem to be a few that have dropped out over the course of the afternoon leaving a few now shortformed. The one on is first day is amongst the days casualties.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
- Thread starter hexagon789
- Start date
There does seem to be a few that have dropped out over the course of the afternoon leaving a few now shortformed. The one on is first day is amongst the days casualties.
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R
RailUK Forums
According to RTT of the non MK4 services only the 1454 from Swansea to Manchester was formed of a 5 car. The others were a mix of 4,3 or 2 cars.
In the other direction the 0730 was the only one to be 5 cars to Swansea, plus one was a 4 car. Everything else was 2 or 3 car.
So there might have been more availability today but capacity on the Marches was still was far short of what was booked.
In the other direction the 0730 was the only one to be 5 cars to Swansea, plus one was a 4 car. Everything else was 2 or 3 car.
So there might have been more availability today but capacity on the Marches was still was far short of what was booked.
Topological
Established Member
This is why I think the availability statistics are not helpful to usual passengers. I know it is a stricter criteria, but to me booked is 3+2 with the exception of the late trains that split because of Mk4s ending their day (e.g. the 2030 from Manchester is not the Mk4 that has arrived from Cardiff and is a split from the 1915 arrival)
With the exams over, it is time for my weekly trips to Manchester to resume. Curious to see what I will get tomorrow (though to be honest 1W12 does not really need more than 3 cars until it gets closer to Manchester).
Thank you.
It is a bit worrying so many are dropping out. The one on its first day is perhaps more understandable. At least there are more new units coming into service.
Availability numbers aren't a remotely useful stat to normal passengers and as far as im aware are never used for that purpose. It was just in reply to another poster asking out of interest how many were out that I posted the numbers. Obviously during the day those numbers haven't really held up which is quite concerning when sets aren't making it through the day for whatever reason.
Topological
Established Member
I agree that it is concerning how many sets are dropping out. The figure for how many are making it through a full day would be a useful one from the public perspective. I do understand it is a figure that doesn't read as well as the initial availability. It is great that you post the figures though, it is really appreciated.
I hope one day someone will hold TfW to account for not using a new depot site for the 197s so that there was capacity to service. That would have allowed Chester to concentrate on the 175s too which would have helped the transition. I won't hold my breath on a Senedd debate though.
This morning there were 5 cars on 1W12 and it got reasonably full. I never know if somehow there has been an uptick in demand, or whether everyone would have fitted into a 2-car as it has been.
Bob Price
Member
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- 8 Aug 2019
- Messages
- 1,149
030 and 034 just moved from Chester to Crewe South Yard on a stock working. Don't know if they have been out before.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
These two set out on a Holyhead-Machynlleth working earlier (3H00).
But they didn't get further than Chester.
Presumably they were destined as ETCS units at Mac.
Realtime Trains | 3H00 0904 Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester | 30/01/2025
Real-time train running information for 3H00 0904 departure from Holyhead Car. M.D. to Chester on 30/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
If a new site been in the plan, any number of people would have tried to hold TfW to account for wasting money on it. Opposition MSs would have made great mileage out of yet another example of welsh government waste.
Believe me, as soon as accountants cost-engineer big plans, resilience is dropped very early to get the cost down. Accountants tell you liquidated damages will ensure the contract is met but generally aren't bothered with what happens if it goes very badly wrong 'cos that's for the lawyers to make money out of.
Few, especially not elected members, want to think in terms of likely to worst case outcomes when the optimistic case is much cheaper. Post-disaster 'lessons must be learned', but if the next similar big decision is 10+ years away by then you are back to square one.
Topological
Established Member
I can see the 197s are struggling again today. 2-car on the 17:30 from Manchester. Hope another unit can be found to add to that one.
Others are either 4 or 5 though with the exception of the 07:30 from Manchester which is a 3.
At least all the Mk4 are running today.
Others are either 4 or 5 though with the exception of the 07:30 from Manchester which is a 3.
At least all the Mk4 are running today.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
And there goes the case for preventative maintenance. Save money now, get bonus, suffer later.
It does seem a bit more of a sin hoping the 197s would all fit at Chester though.
197126 is making it's debut today working 1V94 from Chester to Cardiff.
Does that mean all non-ETCS units are now in service?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W20592/2025-02-01/detailed
Does that mean all non-ETCS units are now in service?
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W20592/2025-02-01/detailed
87electric
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2010
- Messages
- 1,154
Going by that info, yes.
Jacob Porrett
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but that should be all 3 car 197s in service now?
Yes thats correct. 126 was the last one.
Hopefully this will help to ensure all 197 diagrams are covered. Yesterday I noticed a pair of 153s was used on a Manchester to South Wales diagram but swapped at Swansea to ensure a pair of 197s was used.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Has it been swapped? That link is showing 197 121 on the service?
CR165022
Member
Its swapping to 126 + 116 at Chester
Class15
Established Member
A 6-car?!
CR165022
Member
Apparently so!
6 cars have been running on that line for quite some time now.
tfw756rider
Member
So now 62/77 197s have been in service:
36/51 two car units (30/30 non-ETCS - 197001/002, 197004-197021 and 197042-197051 - and 6/21 ETCS-fitted - 197003/028/030/031/033/034)
and
26/26 three car units (12/12 2+2-only seating - 197101-197112 - and 14/14 with a small portion of 2+1 seating - 197113-197126)
Jacob Porrett
Member
197022 and 197036 still at Crewe which haven't been accepted yet.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Thank you.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
And took half an hour to do it...
Realtime Trains | 1V94 0813 Holyhead to Cardiff Central | 01/02/2025
Real-time train running information for 1V94 0813 departure from Holyhead to Cardiff Central on 01/02/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Bob Price
Member
- Joined
- 8 Aug 2019
- Messages
- 1,149
036 is on ROG testing run today. Just arrived at Crewe from Holyhead. Heading out to Chester at 2.
There seems to be a massive improvement with 197 availability today probably helped by the new units that have recently come into service. Nearly every Manchester-South Wales booked for 5 car 197's were as planned (shame the 1530 was cancelled as otherwise it would have been an almost perfect day!)
Infact it was a few of the MK4 that were subbed for 2 car units today.
Infact it was a few of the MK4 that were subbed for 2 car units today.
The sudden influx does certainly seem to have helped. The only short form on the 197s was the 1730, a service which always seems to be one which suffers from shortforms and substitutions.
The 1530 failed at Piccadilly and eventually managed to get on the move after fitters attention and ran empty.
Topological
Established Member
Can someone get the 17:30 made longer. The less than friendly people in timetabling gave me a 17:00 finish on Fridays
Jacob Porrett
Member
197022 and 197027 are in the shed at Crewe at the moment.
197051/113 came in from Manchester om ECS after failing and left around 8pm on a ECS to Chester.
197051/113 came in from Manchester om ECS after failing and left around 8pm on a ECS to Chester.
childwallblues
Established Member
197029 was in the sidings at Chester today.
Jacob Porrett
Member
197036 is at Crewe depot now. Came in today with plenty of plastic still covering up the inside.