Caledonian Sleeper

[BRX]

I've not managed to travel in the club car yet but from all the publicity photos it seems CS has made the same mistake that Travelodge made a few years ago when introducing low energy lighting. The "colour temperature" of the lights used is towards blue white and that makes for a colder, more sterile environment. Now that low energy lighting is available with much warmer white LEDs it should be quite a simple manner to retrofit warmer white lights. The snag is the LED lights are designed to last for years so unless CS (or indeed Travelodge) gets masses of negative customer feedback this issue will persist. However the impact on CS is nowhere near as bad as on preserved mk1 stock on heritage railways, that ambience is positively awful when blue white LEDs replace the yellow tungsten bulbs!

Agreed completely (on the general point - also haven't yet been able to try the 'club car' either).

Scotrail have made the same mistake on the refurbed HSTs - wrong colour temperature LEDs. GWR did it too. I don't know why this seems to be a thing on railways. Anyone involved in lighting design knows about this - and any conventional interior designer who specified cool-white LEDs for an internal environment that is supposed to have a relaxing ambience would be incompetent.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed completely (on the general point - also haven't yet been able to try the 'club car' either).

Scotrail have made the same mistake on the refurbed HSTs - wrong colour temperature LEDs. GWR did it too. I don't know why this seems to be a thing on railways. Anyone involved in lighting design knows about this - and any conventional interior designer who specified cool-white LEDs for an internal environment that is supposed to have a relaxing ambience would be incompetent.

I think "cheap" is your answer to that question - both for purchase[1] and in running costs (as you can get to the required light levels with less power with a more blue colour).

[1] The reason for this is that the Asian countries like daylight white, and as such the market is larger.

 

[Norther Monkey]

I'm sure this thread tends to emphasise the negative views, because not many people post "I went on the sleeper and everything was fine and I have nothing interesting to say about the okayness"

I get that the new lounge is more modern and maybe it is a bit meh. But the old ones, for all the charm of their faded glory, really were not of this era. It was time.

I think I just wish that they'd sell the sleeper as "really good modern sleeper train" (which it is) rather than "hotel on wheels" (which it's clearly not and realistically can't be).

I suspect the problem with that is it wouldn't justify the prices they need to charge.

 

[paul1609]

Agreed completely (on the general point - also haven't yet been able to try the 'club car' either).

Scotrail have made the same mistake on the refurbed HSTs - wrong colour temperature LEDs. GWR did it too. I don't know why this seems to be a thing on railways. Anyone involved in lighting design knows about this - and any conventional interior designer who specified cool-white LEDs for an internal environment that is supposed to have a relaxing ambience would be incompetent.

The lighting needs to meet a minimum lux in all areas for the benefit of the visually impared and for emergency evacuation. Unfortunately cosy living room lighting wont meet the specified standards.

 

[MrEd]

Over around 80 journeys in 2 years, I've never once turned up and had the lounge out of use on the old stock.

I've had 14 trips on the MK5s so far with no working lounge on 5 of them.

Is that figure counting trips made post-March 2020 when lounge cars have been closed to the public anyway? Or is that from 2019-2020?

 

[JModulo]

Is that figure counting trips made post-March 2020 when lounge cars have been closed to the public anyway? Or is that from 2019-2020?

2019-2020

 

[MrEd]

The lighting needs to meet a minimum lux in all areas for the benefit of the visually impared and for emergency evacuation. Unfortunately cosy living room lighting wont meet the specified standards.

I thought that would be the case. As much as some of us liked the Mk2s, they definitely didn’t meet modern regulations in any way, shape or form and had to go. At least I was fortunate to be able to travel on the service when they were still running and have lots of great memories. You cannot escape the fact that they became very unreliable towards the end and were simply not up to the task in the modern world.

That's quite interesting, as it looks quite cosy to me from pictures (not used it yet). Definitely better than the Mk2 buffet first open which tended to be used on the FWs, I've never had the privilege of one of the ones with loose seats.

I agree that those Mk2 RFBs were particularly shabby towards the end. In their final years they often worked on the Inverness services as well, and were obviously knackered. The ones with the loose seats were perhaps better but still showed their age badly towards the end, particularly as the seat covers and carpets wore threadbare and very little work was done on them as CS knew they were going.

I think the pictures on the CS website sometimes paint quite a different picture of the Mk5s than the reality. Both the lounge car and the seated coach look far cosier in the pictures than they are in real life, I find. The lounge is quite draughty too, strangely for a modern train (nowhere near as bad as the Mk2s for that though). That said, I am extremely impressed with the Mk5 berths, and think they really are a cut above the Mk3s.

I'm sure this thread tends to emphasise the negative views, because not many people post "I went on the sleeper and everything was fine and I have nothing interesting to say about the okayness"

I get that the new lounge is more modern and maybe it is a bit meh. But the old ones, for all the charm of their faded glory, really were not of this era. It was time.

I think I just wish that they'd sell the sleeper as "really good modern sleeper train" (which it is) rather than "hotel on wheels" (which it's clearly not and realistically can't be).

You’ve hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph.

 

[JModulo]

I think the pictures on the CS website sometimes paint quite a different picture of the Mk5s than the reality. Both the lounge car and the seated coach look far cosier in the pictures than they are in real life, I find. The lounge is quite draughty too, strangely for a modern train (nowhere near as bad as the Mk2s for that though). That said, I am extremely impressed with the Mk5 berths, and think they really are a cut above the Mk3s.

The aircon in the lounge seems to work too well at times, and rather annoying with the vents for them being at the windows beside the tables. My view is they are really nice coaches, and are quite a nice experience but only when they are working properly which in my case hasn't been often.

 

[BRX]

The lighting needs to meet a minimum lux in all areas for the benefit of the visually impared and for emergency evacuation. Unfortunately cosy living room lighting wont meet the specified standards.

We're talking about colour temperature, not lux levels.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We're talking about colour temperature, not lux levels.

To be fair, excessively bright warm white is horrid too - think of the original Mk3 lighting. I used to be a bit naughty and go round switching them to dim, much more pleasant

 

[nlogax]

Can't say I've had a negative experience with the new club car but I don't remember using the old one so can't really compare. When it was last allowed, sitting in the lounge while still at the platform in Euston with that 'new train' smell all around and some relatively dim lighting was rather pleasant. Couldn't possibly comment on how much the couple of Laphroaigs I'd sunk had contributed to that feeling..

 

[AberdeenBill]

I'm sure this thread tends to emphasise the negative views, because not many people post "I went on the sleeper and everything was fine and I have nothing interesting to say about the okayness"

I get that the new lounge is more modern and maybe it is a bit meh. But the old ones, for all the charm of their faded glory, really were not of this era. It was time.

I think I just wish that they'd sell the sleeper as "really good modern sleeper train" (which it is) rather than "hotel on wheels" (which it's clearly not and realistically can't be).

Its true that a forum like this will tend to attract comments, such as mine about the lounge, that point out faults and failings. However i would stress that overall i am happy with the experience, otherwise i would use other modes of transport as my choice of travel.

Did the long awaited, much delayed, change to the new trains live up to expectations? Probably not, but that is not due to the fact that they are not a significant improvement on the old stock, more due to them not quite being up to the hype and image that CS projected they would be. Even the pictures on the current website appear somehow to make it look better than reality.

Your final sentence sums up what it is - a great way to travel north overnight and save time, but not a 'hotel on wheels'. The negative comments in TripAdvisor tend to be from tourists who have bought the hype, rather than the more informed audience that will post on here. It is apparent that many of them are very disappointed by what they find in terms of the size of the rooms, the limited menu, the comfort etc.

 

[6Z09]

My biggest disappointment, if I was a tourist, would be the fact that I can't sit and have a leisurely breakfast in the lounge car and watch the scenery of the WHL , nor will I be able to have a seat in the seated coach, stuck in my berth with a restricted view.
Or do I have that wrong?

 

[Journeyman]

My biggest disappointment, if I was a tourist, would be the fact that I can't sit and have a leisurely breakfast in the lounge car and watch the scenery of the WHL , nor will I be able to have a seat in the seated coach, stuck in my berth with a restricted view.
Or do I have that wrong?

The lounge is only unavailable due to COVID, and tourism is meant to be closed anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The lounge is only unavailable due to COVID, and tourism is meant to be closed anyway.

Indeed. I must agree in principle, though, that the civilised, traditional restaurant car is 99% of the enjoyment of a Sleeper journey. (It really disappoints me that OeBB Nightjet isn't having one).

 

[route101]

Not used the new lounge car, how comfortable are the bar stool seating? Usually I find bar stools very uncomfortable and cant sit on them for very long. Probably because I have short legs!

 

[6Z09]

I don't think it's available to everyone at all , before any Covid issues!
Only those paying most. What was first class.

 

[JModulo]

I don't think it's available to everyone at all , before any Covid issues!
Only those paying most. What was first class.

Takeaway option for the seats, First class had priority access for seating however standard also welcome.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think it's available to everyone at all , before any Covid issues!
Only those paying most. What was first class.

The more expensive cabins have priority, but if they don't want it then it's available to anyone in a cabin (not the seats, but they've got a seat anyway! )

 

[221129]

I don't think it's available to everyone at all , before any Covid issues!
Only those paying most. What was first class.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolute nonsense.

It was to be fair the original plan but was dropped in favour of a return to the old policy of "First Class" (Club rooms) having priority but others allowed too.

 

[nlogax]

Not used the new lounge car, how comfortable are the bar stool seating?

Seemed fine from what I remember. Get a few drams inside you and most seating becomes very comfortable!

 

[trebor79]

Not used the new lounge car, how comfortable are the bar stool seating? Usually I find bar stools very uncomfortable and cant sit on them for very long. Probably because I have short legs!

Not very in my experience. I found the actual bit you sit on a little too small, and the foot rest is at the wrong height for me so it was impossible to sit comfortably to the extent I ditched it in favour of a table seat. They look nice, and comfort is subjective in any case. I just found them a bit tricky for me.

 

[6Z09]

Absolute nonsense.

It's not nonsense , First Class get priority, so will book their time when the scenic option is there , leaving others the stunning views of suburban Glasgow. .

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not nonsense , First Class get priority, so will book their time when the scenic option is there , leaving others the stunning views of suburban Glasgow. .

That's just not true. Most people don't use it in the morning at all.

 

[221129]

It's not nonsense , First Class get priority, so will book their time when the scenic option is there , leaving others the stunning views of suburban Glasgow. .

I have never travelled First Class on CS and I have never not been able to enjoy breakfast in the lounge.

 

[6Z09]

That's just not true. Most people don't use it in the morning at all.

Really,? the Fort William portion?
Breakfast was always busy in previous years all Tables taken in the old stock.

 

[trebor79]

That's just not true. Most people don't use it in the morning at all.

Really,? the Fort William portion?
Breakfast was always busy in previous years all Tables taken in the old stock.

In my experience too the lounge car is empty in the morning. Probably people trying to snatch a last bit of sleep before turfing out time, whereas if I'm having a poor nights sleep I bit the buller, get up and enjoy a nice breakfast.

 

[AberdeenBill]

It was to be fair the original plan but was dropped in favour of a return to the old policy of "First Class" (Club rooms) having priority but others allowed too.

I have never had a Club Room and i am usually too occupied with sorting out stuff for the day ahead to want to use it in the morning, however i have found that by visiting the lounge for a drink at about 11pm there was usually enough space that i was not challenged on whether i was 'First Class' including during the Mark 3 days when i was in 'standard class'. However i tend to travel Thursday night so it could be busy on a Friday and since the advent of the new stock i am happy to remain in the room. In the days when standard class meant you could end up sharing i always booked first class. Apart from the advantage of single occupancy i also recall that a half decent breakfast was included as well as use of the First Class lounge. When they abolished 'sharing with a stranger' i still recall a few First Class trips. Cant really remember why i would have paid extra but think it may have been that a) this was all they had left or b) in those days this was the premium you paid for being able to cancel?

 

[Davester50]

I've only ever had a Classic room on the new coaches. I didn't find the experience an upgrade from the older stock I'd have a final trip on before they were retired.
Being in berth 10, I found the noise from the vacuum toilet annoying, and the continual clunking from below very disturbing. I didn't have a good nights sleep.
The in berth storage is poor. I much prefer the old berths for storage space, with the silly little computer table under the sink being a design disaster. The full length shelf on the old cars uses space well.

The sawtooth seats in the lounge were nice for a solo traveller, but it was more like a cafeteria than a lounge. The old lounge felt like an evening lounge.