Caledonian Sleeper

Bletchleyite

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The big advantage of the sleeper for me is time. It takes all day to travel to Inverness or Fort William on day trains but the sleeper allows two extra days holiday or less time away if on business.
I don't even consider flying short haul on environmental grounds.

FW is probably the "unique case" because it's such a so-and-so to get to and doesn't have an airport. To anywhere else most people will fly, so people who won't aren't presently enough of a market.

Though personally I prefer day trains as the trip is part of the holiday, and the journey, provided you go West Coast, is interesting pretty much throughout.
 
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Butts

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The big advantage of the sleeper for me is time. It takes all day to travel to Inverness or Fort William on day trains but the sleeper allows two extra days holiday or less time away if on business.
I don't even consider flying short haul on environmental grounds.

Are you having a giraffe ?

Do you know how long it takes to fly from London to Inverness ?

I take it you wouldn't fly to some European destinations that are closer than Inverness.

Next time you want to visit Shetland set aside a week :E
 

Bletchleyite

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It doesn't need to be quicker. When people say about the time taken It isn't about speed.

It would be actively disadvantageous for it to be much quicker. You ideally want a journey time of about 9 hours for a Sleeper, so you can have a nightcap, a read and a good night's sleep. The Riviera sits at stations for considerable periods to provide this as the end to end run is too short.
 

221129

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If I needed to be in London from Edinburgh for 1000 on Saturday for example. My Choice is either flying (the latest option being EasyJet to Luton for £74 at 1715) which would involve leaving my flat for the airport at about 1530 and then fork out for a hotel and travel into London from Luton. OR I could get the sleeper departing Edinburgh at 2340 thus leaving my flat at 2300 at the absolute latest.

So in this case, flying is much more inefficient time wise.

This is what people mean when they say it is more time efficient.
 

Butts

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It would be actively disadvantageous for it to be much quicker. You ideally want a journey time of about 9 hours for a Sleeper, so you can have a nightcap, a read and a good night's sleep. The Riviera sits at stations for considerable periods to provide this as the end to end run is too short.

I suppose it's okay unless like me you smoke.
 

BRX

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It gets a bit tedious to have the same plane vs sleeper argument over and over again every 20 pages or so. The answer is that it depends on a whole load of variables such as your start and end points, time you have to be somewhere, how well you sleep on trains, and how much you enjoy the journey in itself.
 

Butts

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It gets a bit tedious to have the same plane vs sleeper argument over and over again every 20 pages or so. The answer is that it depends on a whole load of variables such as your start and end points, time you have to be somewhere, how well you sleep on trains, and how much you enjoy the journey in itself.

Blame me on this occasion sorry.

On Top End Sleeper Packages do you get unlimited Free Alcohol and Food akin to it's BA equivalent in Club Europe both in the Lounge Pre-Departure and Onboard ?
 

JModulo

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Blame me on this occasion sorry.

On Top End Sleeper Packages do you get unlimited Free Alcohol and Food akin to it's BA equivalent in Club Europe both in the Lounge Pre-Departure and Onboard ?

No. Access to the FC lounges which has access to soft drinks/tea/coffee aswell as some basic nibbles. Only extra onboard is the washbag and breakfast included.
 

paul1609

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FW is probably the "unique case" because it's such a so-and-so to get to and doesn't have an airport. To anywhere else most people will fly, so people who won't aren't presently enough of a market.

Though personally I prefer day trains as the trip is part of the holiday, and the journey, provided you go West Coast, is interesting pretty much throughout.
Fort William is only a so-and-so to get to by train because the rail line is indirect and the service is infrequent. By road its just over two hours, 99 miles from Glasgow Airport. The citylink bus is scheduled to do it in 3 hours. Considering that its population is under 6k the remarkable thing really is that it still has any sort of train service let alone an overnight sleeper service to London.
 

Butts

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Fort William is only a so-and-so to get to by train because the rail line is indirect and the service is infrequent. By road its just over two hours, 99 miles from Glasgow Airport. The citylink bus is scheduled to do it in 3 hours. Considering that its population is under 6k the remarkable thing really is that it still has any sort of train service let alone an overnight sleeper service to London.

Britains highest Mountain on it's doorstep ?

No. Access to the FC lounges which has access to soft drinks/tea/coffee aswell as some basic nibbles. Only extra onboard is the washbag and breakfast included.

So it's not really the Premium Product it's cracked up to be compared to even BA Club Europe ?

I suppose The Jacobite would be required for comparable quality ?
 

Bletchleyite

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Fort William is only a so-and-so to get to by train because the rail line is indirect and the service is infrequent. By road its just over two hours, 99 miles from Glasgow Airport. The citylink bus is scheduled to do it in 3 hours. Considering that its population is under 6k the remarkable thing really is that it still has any sort of train service let alone an overnight sleeper service to London.

The reason it does is tourism, not locals. A certain mountain is the reason for this, not because it's that amazing a place.
 

Journeyman

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The reason it does is tourism, not locals. A certain mountain is the reason for this, not because it's that amazing a place.
Fort William always strikes me as somewhat grotty - it's certainly nowhere near as attractive as Oban - but as a base for exploring a wide area of stunning beauty, it's very handy.
 

Cheshire Scot

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Fort William ……………. Considering that its population is under 6k the remarkable thing really is that it still has any sort of train service
Perhaps something to do with Dr Beeching's cronies being unable to find any sort of bus service that could link Bridge of Orchy to Rannoch to Corrour to Tulloch! (Anyone unfamiliar with the territory should consult a road map). That said, at the time there were - and for many years after - significant levels of freight traffic which may ultimately be what saved it on the basis it is needed for freight and we cannot link all the stations by bus so we might as well keep the two trains per day (three in summer).
Even back then Fort William to Glasgow would be quicker by bus than by train, a position which subsequent road improvements has exacerbated.
 
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Bletchleyite

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And plenty of other much better mountains!

Yes and no - the Ben via staying at the CIC hut then up via the CMD Arete (and back via the tourist path, as the CMD is awkward to descend) takes some beating for an alpine style mountain experience in the UK.

Plus the west highland line itself is one of the most scenic anywhere in the world.

Yes, true, there is that (and I think it's undermarketed).
 

MrEd

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29th April. They are already on sale.
Similarly, does anyone know when the Fort William, Glasgow and Aberdeen sections are likely to return? Presumably this will not happen before cross-border leisure travel becomes legal again?
 

Bald Rick

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Yes and no - the Ben via staying at the CIC hut then up via the CMD Arete (and back via the tourist path, as the CMD is awkward to descend) takes some beating for an alpine style mountain experience in the UK.

Did that by staying at the Travelodge in Dumbarton (where we left by car just as the down sleeper went past, keeping on topic, just), up Carn Mor Dearg, hopped over to the Ben, and got back down to the Ben Nevis Inn in time for a lateish lunch.
 

Altnabreac

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Yes and no - the Ben via staying at the CIC hut then up via the CMD Arete (and back via the tourist path, as the CMD is awkward to descend) takes some beating for an alpine style mountain experience in the UK.



Yes, true, there is that (and I think it's undermarketed).

CMD Arete is perfectly doable as a (long) day trip from Glen Nevis. Certainly agree though that its a much more exciting day out than going up and down the Tourist Path.
 

Essexman

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Are you having a giraffe ?

Do you know how long it takes to fly from London to Inverness ?

I take it you wouldn't fly to some European destinations that are closer than Inverness.

Next time you want to visit Shetland set aside a week :E

I always travel by train to European destinations Often utilising sleepers.
 

alistairlees

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Similarly, does anyone know when the Fort William, Glasgow and Aberdeen sections are likely to return? Presumably this will not happen before cross-border leisure travel becomes legal again?
29th April. Though all rooms on London to Fort William are fully booked on both Thursday 29th and Friday 30th April, with just seats left on both; the first northbound availability to Fort William (in a room) is on Sunday 2nd May.

Unsurprisingly there is complete availability from Thursday 29th April on services to Glasgow and Aberdeen.
 

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