Caledonian Sleeper

Bill57p9

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1 Dec 2019
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10
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Ayrshire
Scotrail have started operating a service in the path of the down Fort William sleeper from Rannoch on Mondays & Thursdays only (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M30390/2021-04-01/detailed#allox_id=0). This is operated by the 156 stabled overnight at FTW and travels to Rannoch on the rear of the 0603 MLG-GLQ from FTW.
Seems a lot of trouble to go to and therefore I presume that there is an (essential) use case. Does anyone know what it is?
And presumably CS will have to provide a seated service for this leg once 1Y11 resumes?
 
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RailUK Forums

47271

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Scotrail have started operating a service in the path of the down Fort William sleeper from Rannoch on Mondays & Thursdays only (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/M30390/2021-04-01/detailed#allox_id=0). This is operated by the 156 stabled overnight at FTW and travels to Rannoch on the rear of the 0603 MLG-GLQ from FTW.
Seems a lot of trouble to go to and therefore I presume that there is an (essential) use case. Does anyone know what it is?
And presumably CS will have to provide a seated service for this leg once 1Y11 resumes?
 

Altnabreac

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Salt & Vinegar

Excellent work. The Corrour SYHA warden has used that service for many years to do their shopping at FW Morrison’s right back to the days of Tom Rigg.
 

Milkycoffee

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Hope
I drove sleepers for years out of KX. Deltic often doing the heavy lifting of 14 vacuum braked steam heated coached. Good old sleepers.
 

williamn

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22 May 2008
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Have prices gone up? I'm looking at travelling to Glasgow and it seems you can't get a single room for less than £170 each way looking at dates in May, June or July.
 

Robertj21a

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Have prices gone up? I'm looking at travelling to Glasgow and it seems you can't get a single room for less than £170 each way looking at dates in May, June or July.
Surely, it depends on where you stay, quality etc ?
 

TimboM

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12 Apr 2016
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What a rip off - You could fly Business Class for less and a lot less in economy.
Passenger ticket income on the sleeper covers <40% of the costs of running the service.

There’s very few things you can get these days where you pay less than half the cost of you having that product or service. Hardly a rip-off.
 

87015

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GEML/WCML/SR
Passenger ticket income on the sleeper covers <40% of the costs of running the service.

There’s very few things you can get these days where you pay less than half the cost of you having that product or service. Hardly a rip-off.
That just makes it a rip-off for everyone who pays taxes to subsidise it then!
 

TimboM

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That just makes it a rip-off for everyone who pays taxes to subsidise it then!
it costs what it costs - running that many locos, stock, crew etc with relative low capacity costs money.

Sleepers are expensive to operate - why is that “ripping someone off”?
 

alangla

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Glasgow
That's very rarely true.
Just had a quick look at BA’s website for a random date in May for Heathrow to Glasgow, £49 economy, £144 business seems to be the norm for all flights though the 0825 on 13th May is £85/213. It’s definitely possible to do it in business class for less than £170 & at a sociable time.
 

221129

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Just had a quick look at BA’s website for a random date in May for Heathrow to Glasgow, £49 economy, £144 business seems to be the norm for all flights though the 0825 on 13th May is £85/213. It’s definitely possible to do it in business class for less than £170 & at a sociable time.
It all depends on the circumstances, as you need to include the possibility of an overnight stay and the costs of getting to and from town etc. Not as clear cut as just comparing prices.
 

Carlisle

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Passenger ticket income on the sleeper covers <40% of the costs of running the service.

There’s very few things you can get these days where you pay less than half the cost of you having that product or service. Hardly a rip-off.
If they really were that desperate, they should’ve saved a few quid by shutting down completely during lockdown like the open access operators did
 

alangla

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It all depends on the circumstances, as you need to include the possibility of an overnight stay and the costs of getting to and from town etc. Not as clear cut as just comparing prices.
Oh definitely, but not every journey is going to involve wanting to be at the far end from the crack of dawn till midnight and not every journey is city centre to city centre. TBH, I was surprised by the business class fare as well, though it’s worth noting that on BA domestic it’s normally (unless you get one of the A321s normally sent to Moscow or the Middle East) a standard window or aisle seat with a table over the middle and an enhanced food & drink service which, going by the website appears to be operating largely as normal.
Horses for courses I guess but the airlines do seem very competitive just now.
 

6Z09

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If they really were that desperate, they should’ve saved a few quid by shutting down completely during lockdown like the open access operators did
Transport Scotland footing the bill and no doubt calling the shots?
 

221129

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Horses for courses I guess but the airlines do seem very competitive just now.
Indeed, however on the otherhand I can book the sleeper for tomorrow night form London to Edinburgh for £185. BA is showing £146 for Basic Economy (Hand luggage only etc) or £246 for Business... but as you say, horses for courses.
 

paul1609

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Personally I feel that with the average hotel room I get any where in the UK around £70 (London generally higher) and a standard super off peak single standard class from London to the central belt at least £80 and the average advance in that ball park, £170 starting price for the sleeper is reasonable.
 

route101

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£49 Glasgow to London fare might just be one flight not at a convenient time, last flight south for example. Usually you pay more on BA to LHR. Sleeper is dearer than it used to be, with railcard was about £100 one way.
 

Bletchleyite

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Personally I feel that with the average hotel room I get any where in the UK around £70 (London generally higher) and a standard super off peak single standard class from London to the central belt at least £80 and the average advance in that ball park, £170 starting price for the sleeper is reasonable.

£70 + £80 = £150. I don't think what the Sleeper provides is worth 20 quid on top, to be honest. It's clearly worth more than Standard in a day train, but not that much more. A day train and a Premier Inn would leave me far more refreshed.
 

BRX

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It might very well be worth an extra £20 or more at the moment, for those worried about covid risk.
 

alangla

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£49 Glasgow to London fare might just be one flight not at a convenient time, last flight south for example. Usually you pay more on BA to LHR. Sleeper is dearer than it used to be, with railcard was about £100 one way.

Not at the moment - for the random week I looked at (week centred on 10th May) it was actually every flight on some days. You are right though - generally it'll be more expensive and the following week it seems to be hovering in the £53-90 single range, though a decent range of flights are available at around the £60 mark. How long that'll last is anyone's guess. No doubt BA are hoping that they can sell for a lot more fairly soon.
 

XAM2175

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Worth noting as well that a not-insignificant number of seats on BA's Scotland-LHR flights in normal times are passengers connecting to long-haul destinations - demand for which is obviously much lower at the moment - so some more lower-end fares will drop off as and when that traffic returns.
 

InOban

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At the moment there are hardly any flights. Two a day by BA between EDI and LHR, and Easy don't fly at all on Tues and Wednesday. If you need to be there first thing, then it's either the last train and a hotel, or the Sleeper.
 

Essexman

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£70 + £80 = £150. I don't think what the Sleeper provides is worth 20 quid on top, to be honest. It's clearly worth more than Standard in a day train, but not that much more. A day train and a Premier Inn would leave me far more refreshed.
The big advantage of the sleeper for me is time. It takes all day to travel to Inverness or Fort William on day trains but the sleeper allows two extra days holiday or less time away if on business.
I don't even consider flying short haul on environmental grounds.
 

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