Caledonian Sleeper

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najaB

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Not if you're going to Fort William. Or is it different from bikes and they will move it for you?
True about Fort William, I'm not sure if they'll move cases for you - in my opinion I think that they really should.
 

XAM2175

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I do wonder why they don't offer a formal (possibly chargeable) checked luggage service?
It's an additional overhead to have staff to handle it, for a start, and I wonder if perhaps platform space is an issue too.

I think it is something that they should offer if feasible though, possibly free to Double and Club passengers and chargeable for Classic and seated.

I'm not sure of the arrangements on the continent but even in Australia the Countrylink services out of Sydney offer a checked luggage service - though they are a much larger operator so they can better absorb the overhead, and their stock has dedicated luggage storage space.
 

trebor79

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It's something they could do if they wanted to I'm sure. Could be as simple as filling a couple of parcels cages which are rolled off one coach and into another at Edinburgh. How long would that take? 2 minutes?
 

BRX

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Yup, there's certainly no 'platform space' issue at Edinburgh.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm not sure of the arrangements on the continent but even in Australia the Countrylink services out of Sydney offer a checked luggage service - though they are a much larger operator so they can better absorb the overhead, and their stock has dedicated luggage storage space.

Generally dedicated van areas are not a thing in continental Europe, the guard works from a compartment in a passenger vehicle. The last time I came across it (and did put my bag in) was the old DB Talgo sleepers. But because of the high roofline of RIC coaches there's a fair bit of space e.g. above the gangway.
 

XAM2175

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Yup, there's certainly no 'platform space' issue at Edinburgh.
How much space is there in the current vehicles? The platform space issues I'm mentioning relate to consist length - if they need to add an additional vehicle for luggage there'd be problems at Euston even if nowhere else, no?

Generally dedicated van areas are not a thing in continental Europe, the guard works from a compartment in a passenger vehicle. The last time I came across it (and did put my bag in) was the old DB Talgo sleepers.
I thought as much, given the amount of space in a normal car. The XPT sets have a full-width combined luggage space and guard's office at the end of the saloon car nearest the power car.
 

najaB

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It's an additional overhead to have staff to handle it, for a start, and I wonder if perhaps platform space is an issue too.
It's not a massive amount of additional overhead. If Megabus can handle bags under the bus then there's no reason that CS can't do bags in the guard's 'van'.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's not a massive amount of additional overhead. If Megabus can handle bags under the bus then there's no reason that CS can't do bags in the guard's 'van'.

The problem is probably that coach drivers have handled bags for as long as coaches have been a thing (even ones with horses), so there's no scope to argue it isn't their job and they want extra money for it. The railway would probably end up having to employ someone specifically to do it, which would be costly.
 

najaB

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The problem is probably that coach drivers have handled bags for as long as coaches have been a thing (even ones with horses), so there's no scope to argue it isn't their job and they want extra money for it. The railway would probably end up having to employ someone specifically to do it, which would be costly.
I suppose back in the day they had porters, I wonder whose job description those responsibilities were transferred to.
 

trebor79

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The problem is probably that coach drivers have handled bags for as long as coaches have been a thing (even ones with horses), so there's no scope to argue it isn't their job and they want extra money for it. The railway would probably end up having to employ someone specifically to do it, which would be costly.
"The railway" is going to have to consign some of these dyed in the wool attitude and practices to the bin if it is to survive. It's going to look increasingly anachronistic to accept attitudes like this as the rest of the world gets more agile and flexible. Sooner or later people will question why such old-fashioned practices are being subsidised to the extent they are.
 

LowLevel

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"The railway" is going to have to consign some of these dyed in the wool attitude and practices to the bin if it is to survive. It's going to look increasingly anachronistic to accept attitudes like this as the rest of the world gets more agile and flexible. Sooner or later people will question why such old-fashioned practices are being subsidised to the extent they are.
I'd have said having a minion around to carry people's belongings for them and wreck their back in the process is the anachronistic thing :lol:

I do help people with luggage on my trains and used to do it more often when I worked on a station and some of the stuff they expect you to lug around for them is disgraceful. A reasonable sized case for someone who has a back injury - no problem. One that comes up to my waist that is packed for a 2 week holiday - nope!
 

trebor79

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I'd have said having a minion around to carry people's belongings for them and wreck their back in the process is the anachronistic thing :lol:

I do help people with luggage on my trains and used to do it more often when I worked on a station and some of the stuff they expect you to lug around for them is disgraceful. A reasonable sized case for someone who has a back injury - no problem. One that comes up to my waist that is packed for a 2 week holiday - nope!
Ah yes, that's fair enough.
But I think what I'm saying is that CS could buy some parcels cages. FW passengers can deposit their bulky luggage into it ad it's then rolled onto the the appropriate carriage at Waverly in the middle of the night. It's then just a matter of someone being tasked to do the rolling (or perhaps 2 people if heavy). In no other business would it be acceptable for employees to say "Not my job guv".
I'm talking about the kind of thing you see used in supermarkets to move shelf-fulls of stuff into the aisles for shelf-stacking.
 

BRX

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How much space is there in the current vehicles? The platform space issues I'm mentioning relate to consist length - if they need to add an additional vehicle for luggage there'd be problems at Euston even if nowhere else, no?
I've assumed that it's similar to the old mk2 space but perhaps it's not. I don't think I've had a look (the only journeys I've done on the new stock have been covid-era and confined to the sleeper coach only).
 

35B

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Ah yes, that's fair enough.
But I think what I'm saying is that CS could buy some parcels cages. FW passengers can deposit their bulky luggage into it ad it's then rolled onto the the appropriate carriage at Waverly in the middle of the night. It's then just a matter of someone being tasked to do the rolling (or perhaps 2 people if heavy). In no other business would it be acceptable for employees to say "Not my job guv".
I'm talking about the kind of thing you see used in supermarkets to move shelf-fulls of stuff into the aisles for shelf-stacking.
Which vehicle would the cage(s) roll into or out of? And if you were to create the space for those cages, what else would need to change?
I suppose back in the day they had porters, I wonder whose job description those responsibilities were transferred to.
They weren't transferred - the role died out.
 

Davester50

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As a matter of interest how does the luggage space on the new stock compare with the space on the previous type?
Terrible. The classic cabin has a very poor use of space. The only good thing is they're leaving the upper bunk made up for solo use which is the place to dump your belongings.
I'd hate to travel with the wife on the new train - definitely no space for her small (haha) handbag!
 

6Z09

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"The railway" is going to have to consign some of these dyed in the wool attitude and practices to the bin if it is to survive. It's going to look increasingly anachronistic to accept attitudes like this as the rest of the world gets more agile and flexible. Sooner or later people will question why such old-fashioned practices are being subsidised to the extent they are.
It's not really anything to do with " dyed in the wool " attitude , it's a question of who is going to lug these cages about and where in the "Guards van" are they going to fit?
All current staff pretty much are busy at the split and joining of the trains.
Such a move would probably need modifications to the coach and additional staff .
 
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tornado

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Anybody know about bikes on the sleeper? I read that if you take a bike you have to get up at 4am to move it when then decouple carriages, is this true? I am planning on travelling Glasgow-London so not sure why they would be decoupling.
 

trebor79

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Anybody know about bikes on the sleeper? I read that if you take a bike you have to get up at 4am to move it when then decouple carriages, is this true? I am planning on travelling Glasgow-London so not sure why they would be decoupling.
Only if travelling to or from Fort William because the seated coach and lounge car are shared with the Inverness portion between Edinburgh and Euston. Glasgow and Edinburgh split/join at Carstairs but both run as full portions.
 

Bill57p9

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The recent discussions on this thread about moving luggage at Waverley in the middle of the night have got me thinking: Given the relative loadings of Aberdeen vs. Fort William portions these days (and now all year round), has the time now come for the through portion to be swapped so that Fort William is a fully through service whilst Aberdeen passengers/luggage would need to relocate at Waverley?

I do believe by the way that luggage (e.g. bike) portering during the split is a reasonable ask for a "hotel on wheels".
 

najaB

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The recent discussions on this thread about moving luggage at Waverley in the middle of the night have got me thinking: Given the relative loadings of Aberdeen vs. Fort William portions these days (and now all year round), has the time now come for the through portion to be swapped so that Fort William is a fully through service whilst Aberdeen passengers/luggage would need to relocate at Waverley?
This was discussed a few pages back. It's likely to happen at some point.
 

OFFDN

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I travelled just under a month ago to Fort William and the Inverness lounge car was heaving/oversubscribed… the staff called through to the Aberdeen lounge car who said they were empty, so people were sent through to there instead. Says all you need to know I reckon.
 

Bald Rick

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I assume they are still using Class 92s on not switching to diesel throughout due to the price of electricity?

They won’t be able to, nothing else can pull the trains on the main haul and provide the hotel supply. Besides the cost will be a pass through to Government. The FOCs (and open access) don’t have that option.
 

Techniquest

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I do believe by the way that luggage (e.g. bike) portering during the split is a reasonable ask for a "hotel on wheels".

Reasonable, perhaps for most, but personally I wouldn't want someone else handling my bike. No thank you, my bike is my property and it's not for others to get their greasy mitts all over!

Obviously when the beast needs new parts etc, then it goes to the shop to get them fitted, but aside from a bike shop expert my bike is only handled by one person. Me. No one else, as far as I'm concerned it's too important to let others handle it.

Especially so in the modern era of hygiene standards...
 

Scotrail84

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I travelled just under a month ago to Fort William and the Inverness lounge car was heaving/oversubscribed… the staff called through to the Aberdeen lounge car who said they were empty, so people were sent through to there instead. Says all you need to know I reckon.


Thats
I travelled just under a month ago to Fort William and the Inverness lounge car was heaving/oversubscribed… the staff called through to the Aberdeen lounge car who said they were empty, so people were sent through to there instead. Says all you need to know I reckon.

That would also indicate the Ft William portion was empty as well. The Inverness lounge car is not for use by Ft William passengers, the Aberdeen and Ft William sections share a lounge care between London and Edinburgh

Only if travelling to or from Fort William because the seated coach and lounge car are shared with the Inverness portion between Edinburgh and Euston. Glasgow and Edinburgh split/join at Carstairs but both run as full portions.


Wrong, its the Aberdeen lounge car the FTW passengers share.
 

LeylandLen

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re #11333,im led to believe that GBRF who supply 92s for sleepers in and out of Euston are withdrawing all class 92s .Could use 66s as they do for portions to/from Edinburgh , we shall see !
 

XAM2175

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re #11333,im led to believe that GBRF who supply 92s for sleepers in and out of Euston are withdrawing all class 92s .Could use 66s as they do for portions to/from Edinburgh , we shall see !
I think it needs to be stressed quite firmly that there are precisely two types of locomotive available in Britain at the moment that can both haul and supply ETS to the Mk 5 sleeper stock: the 73/9s, and the 92s.

And of those two types, only one type can supply ETS to a full 16-car rake of Mk 5 sleepers. Hint: it's not the 73/9s.
 

6Z09

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re #11333,im led to believe that GBRF who supply 92s for sleepers in and out of Euston are withdrawing all class 92s .Could use 66s as they do for portions to/from Edinburgh , we shall see !
If that's the case any recent difficulties will soon seem insignificant!!
ETS ?
Dellners?
 

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