can public transport ever recover from COVID-19

[james60059]

I also haven't seen much evidence of TOCs trying to encourage people back. Some are being less hostile than they were previously (e.g. Northern), but some (XC) are sitll making it such hassle to travel that many won't bother.

I notice XC are still running their once an hour BHM - LEI service, with an alternate extension to Cambridge. I must admit, I won't use XC whilst I can drive to Nuneaton and jump on an WMT service.

 

[birchesgreen]

Apparently Chiltern kicked a load of schoolkids off one their services this morning between Dorridge and Leamington (presumably at Warwick?) as it was too crowded and they had to wait an hour for the next one. What a complete farce.

 

[crablab]

LNER have appear to have turned on their at seat reservation system again, on the Azumas.

This has been disabled for a long time (presumably because it shows unoccupied seats as "available", as opposed to "out of use due to social distancing").

 

[Bikeman78]

I know I keep repeating myself but lifts lifts lifts.
In the cities most offices rely on lifts, if social distancing says you can only get low single fingers in each lift how are you going to get everyone in and out? A bigger problem than trains because it is enforceable, so the employer/building manager will have to enforce it. I haven’t heard whether anyone is researching the risk - very short journeys vs proximity and limited ventilation.
ps I was wondering about fire evacuation tests - you legally have to do them, but they are about as non-distanced as you can get!

That's most of New York City stuffed then!

 

[Meerkat]

Someone will have to make a call that a few minutes with masks on in a lift is an acceptable risk.
seeing as I still haven’t seen any reliable evidence of aerosol transmission (Just specific ‘well how else’ examples, and theoretical lab work) this must surely be possible?
Obviously you would need a protocol for those who can’t wear masks, but in an office scenario they could have special badges and get a clear ride (or just WFH on a proven medical exemption)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

LNER have appear to have turned on their at seat reservation system again, on the Azumas.

When I did my Rail Rover in the first week of August, it was on roughly a third of the time, i.e. about one train in every three that I took.

Are you saying it's now switched on generally?

 

[crablab]

Are you saying it's now switched on generally?

No - only the train I've taken today had it turned on. All the others I've taken (fairly regulaly) over the last few months had it turned off and announcements to the effect that the system couldn't cope with how they were doing the reservations...

 

[Darandio]

Can public transport ever recover from Covid-19?

Not if displays like today continue, as I was walking on the other side of the road it was the first time i'd seen a bus sail straight past people waiting at a bus stop with 'Bus Full - Social Distancing' on the front display. Except as it came towards me and slowed for the level crossing I could see it clearly wasn't full, I counted 8 people and 5 full rows at the back were completely empty.

 

[Ianno87]

No - only the train I've taken today had it turned on. All the others I've taken (fairly regulaly) over the last few months had it turned off and announcements to the effect that the system couldn't cope with how they were doing the reservations...

I think it doesn't update if someone makes a reservation joining at an intermediate station after the train has departed the origin move.

So people may move to an 'Available' seat to find that it isn't available when somebody comes to claim it later.

 

[route101]

I think it doesn't update if someone makes a reservation joining at an intermediate station after the train has departed the origin move.

So people may move to an 'Available' seat to find that it isn't available when somebody comes to claim it later.

Bit like XC!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If reservations are compulsory it doesn't overly matter because you sit in your reserved seat and don't get to complain if you sit elsewhere and someone else tells you to shift, though.

 

[crablab]

It's a minor inconvenience having to retrieve your phone to double check your seat (whilst faffing with a bag), being unable to confirm by looking at the reservation displayed on the screen.

 

[Ianno87]

It's a minor inconvenience having to retrieve your phone to double check your seat (whilst faffing with a bag), being unable to confirm by looking at the reservation displayed on the screen.

The screens are also handy for easily resolving the "you're sitting in my seat" disputes.

Does strike me as an oversight in a new train that they can't be updated in realtime, unless the issue lies with the station reservation systems.

 

[Richard Scott]

Apparently Chiltern kicked a load of schoolkids off one their services this morning between Dorridge and Leamington (presumably at Warwick?) as it was too crowded and they had to wait an hour for the next one. What a complete farce.

Utterly Disgraceful! What did that achieve? I dispair at the total stupidity exhibited in this country.

 

[birchesgreen]

Utterly Disgraceful! What did that achieve? I dispair at the total stupidity exhibited in this country.

Its typical of this country at the moment, insisting people do something but putting up barriers in their way to make it as hard as possible to do it!

 

[david1212]

Apparently Chiltern kicked a load of schoolkids off one their services this morning between Dorridge and Leamington (presumably at Warwick?) as it was too crowded and they had to wait an hour for the next one. What a complete farce.

Unless one of the services that called at Lapworth or Hatton, but then the wait may have been more than an hour, the next station would be Warwick Parkway. The distance to Leamington is about 4 miles. If a service that then stopped at Warwick ( Town ) still only a few minutes to Leamington so on the surface pointless. Warwick ( Town ) to Leamington station is about 2.5 miles. Depending where the children were going maybe less than 2.5 miles to there.

I wonder if the issue was the number of passengers waiting to join the train ? Might a more reasonable approach have been to ask all the schoolchildren to stand in groups for the remainder of their journey ?

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes i know though over 2 miles is a decent hike, and you have to know which way to go! It wasn't clear from the various complaints online where the kids were left, possibly at Dorridge itself. They boarded and then were told to get off.

But anyway it seems to me that continuing to restrict passenger levels on public transport *and* encouraging everyone to go back to their commutes and school is not going to work...

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Yes i know though over 2 miles is a decent hike, and you have to know which way to go! It wasn't clear from the various complaints online where the kids were left, possibly at Dorridge itself. They boarded and then were told to get off.

But anyway it seems to me that continuing to restrict passenger levels on public transport *and* encouraging everyone to go back to their commutes and school is not going to work...

If these children did wait for the next train, wouldn’t it be highly likely that they would face the same ‘too crowded’ issue on the next service, too?

 

[birchesgreen]

If these children did wait for the next train, wouldn’t it be highly likely that they would face the same ‘too crowded’ issue on the next service, too?

Which is another big issue with trains and buses leaving passengers behind of course.

 

[david1212]

Yes i know though over 2 miles is a decent hike, and you have to know which way to go! It wasn't clear from the various complaints online where the kids were left, possibly at Dorridge itself. They boarded and then were told to get off.

But anyway it seems to me that continuing to restrict passenger levels on public transport *and* encouraging everyone to go back to their commutes and school is not going to work...

Most if not all would have a phone with internet so could soon find where they were and the way to where they needed to get to. That doesn't of course make the action taken any more justifiable.


The only way to control capacity is a booking system that even where no system to allocate specific seats limits the total numbers e.g. for trains and buses with 2+2 seating only allow one person per row so 25%. For daily travel though not simply not realistic plus how is excess demand managed ?

 

[Ianno87]

Most if not all would have a phone with internet so could soon find where they were and the way to where they needed to get to. That doesn't of course make the action taken any more justifiable.

That part of the world has plenty of country roads not very suited for pedestrians...

 

[david1212]

That part of the world has plenty of country roads not very suited for pedestrians...

Warwick ( Town ) to Leamington is urban to the point where but for the signs you would not know where one ended and the other started.
From Warwick Parkway there is a footpath too but then over an hour walk to Leamington station or the town centre. Yes Lapworth and Hatton are rural and totally unsuitable places to evict any passengers from a train due to overcrowding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most if not all would have a phone with internet so could soon find where they were and the way to where they needed to get to. That doesn't of course make the action taken any more justifiable.

I'm going to venture the opinion, from experience in my own youth, that the schoolkids were happy to wait and miss the first lesson, and that it's the parents that were up in arms. So they might have known what to do but chosen not to do it.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes personally i would have returned home just to be safe

 

[telstarbox]

Here's the latest graph. Usage still hasn't broken through 40% of 2019 values.
(The last day is 31 August, a Bank Holiday which may explain the significant drop at the end.)

 

[LowLevel]

The amount of tickets I've been flogging on board to surprised passengers expect a spike shortly

 

[Bletchleyite]

The amount of tickets I've been flogging on board to surprised passengers expect a spike shortly

If revenue protection is coming back I'd imagine that will indeed cause an uptick - a lot of people have presumably been fare dodging as they knew they wouldn't get caught.

 

[yorksrob]

It would be interesting to see the above graph broken down by business sector.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Warwick ( Town ) to Leamington is urban to the point where but for the signs you would not know where one ended and the other started.
From Warwick Parkway there is a footpath too but then over an hour walk to Leamington station or the town centre. Yes Lapworth and Hatton are rural and totally unsuitable places to evict any passengers from a train due to overcrowding.

But at least you can shuttle back and forth between the two for just 44.9p per day if you buy an annual season

 

[bramling]

The amount of tickets I've been flogging on board to surprised passengers expect a spike shortly

Trouble is a full load on a Sprinter or two doesn’t make up for all those London commuters. Car park at my local station, normally bursting at the seams on a weekday, still only a handful of cars - very little increase over June, July and August, and still doesn’t seem to be progressing.