Cancelled due to too many passengers

[Jan Mayen]

I've not seen this before. Does it happen often?

This service is cancelled.​

This service was cancelled due to an unexpected number of passengers joining/alighting the service (RB)

Realtime Trains - 1V40 0832 Gatwick Airport to Reading

Realtime Trains is an independent source of live realtime running information for the Great British railway network.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mag_seven]

GWR Journey Check states:

08:32 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 09:54 will be cancelled.
This is due to overcrowding because of a sporting event.

 

[dk1]

The inbound working (06:46 Ex-Reading) looks like it was cancelled. Possibly the stock was used to strengthen something else?

 

[sjm77]

Pre-Covid Deansgate railway station closed on Saturday evenings before Christmas because too many people want to use the station.

 

[yorksrob]

Pre COVID there were various occasions where a train would be cancelled because the train was so crowded the driver couldn't fit on.

Last train back on a bank holiday Sunday seemed to be a favourite for this !

 

[king_walnut]

Pre COVID there were various occasions where a train would be cancelled because the train was so crowded the driver couldn't fit on.

Why would there be passengers in the cab?

 

[Watershed]

Why would there be passengers in the cab?

On some trains (e.g. class 153, 156 and 158) there is no dedicated door for the traincrew to use to get on/off the train. So if the passengers are crowding the doors adjacent the cab and refuse to get off so the traincrew can board, the train will be going nowhere...

 

[Jan Mayen]

Many years ago I was told that Southern trains on the West London Line were so rammed that people started using the back cab to travel in.
RPI were deployed at Kensington Olympia to ask them to leave and report for prosecution.

 

[Tomnick]

On some trains (e.g. class 153, 156 and 158) there is no dedicated door for the traincrew to use to get on/off the train. So if the passengers are crowding the doors adjacent the cab and refuse to get off so the traincrew can board, the train will be going nowhere...

...and temporarily shuffling passengers around to briefly permit the driver's passage isn't an adequate solution either, as it needs to be kept reasonably clear during the whole journey so that the driver can leave the cab and/or train if necessary.

 

[yorksrob]

Why would there be passengers in the cab?

On some trains (e.g. class 153, 156 and 158) there is no dedicated door for the traincrew to use to get on/off the train. So if the passengers are crowding the doors adjacent the cab and refuse to get off so the traincrew can board, the train will be going nowhere...

Indeed. This used top be a particular issue on 142's !

 

[LowLevel]

...and temporarily shuffling passengers around to briefly permit the driver's passage isn't an adequate solution either, as it needs to be kept reasonably clear during the whole journey so that the driver can leave the cab and/or train if necessary.

Of course in certain parts of the world not a million miles away when class 153s used to produce on busy trains it wasn't all that unusual to have the back cab and occasionally the front cab also full of passengers as well as the train crew

Standard practice back in the day - shut the door across the driving controls, pack another 3 people into the standing space plus one or two sat on the secondman's desk if it was the big end and then wedge the guard in at the door panel.

A ludicrous way to run a railway but that was life for a very long while.

There's a video on YouTube somewhere that's over 10 years old showing a packed 153 screeching and wailing into the station with every inch of the train including both cabs full of passengers.

 

[Horizon22]

I'd suggest its been miscoded / incorrect delay reason added - The set from Reading depot and the journey from Reading - Gatwick were also cancelled. Looks like there was no set available or it was used to strengthen elsewhere. Perhaps the root cause is some issue last night with football overcrowding hence the delay reason.

If the buses in and around London (many of which whizzed past stops with waiting passengers which would be a "cancellation") were anything to go by, it may have caused disruption.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Of course in certain parts of the world not a million miles away when class 153s used to produce on busy trains it wasn't all that unusual to have the back cab and occasionally the front cab also full of passengers as well as the train crew

Standard practice back in the day - shut the door across the driving controls, pack another 3 people into the standing space plus one or two sat on the secondman's desk if it was the big end and then wedge the guard in at the door panel.

A ludicrous way to run a railway but that was life for a very long while.

There's a video on YouTube somewhere that's over 10 years old showing a packed 153 screeching and wailing into the station with every inch of the train including both cabs full of passengers.

My first cab ride was at age 9, a back cab second man’s seat ride from Oxenholme to Windermere on an absolutely sardined Regional Railways 156. My parents and sister were both in the gangway space, otherwise we wouldn’t have got on!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Could a train full of standees be too heavy?

 

[bramling]

Many years ago I was told that Southern trains on the West London Line were so rammed that people started using the back cab to travel in.
RPI were deployed at Kensington Olympia to ask them to leave and report for prosecution.

This was happening with 313s on the Hertford loop at one point.

 

[dk1]

Could a train full of standees be too heavy?

Never. Only times that can cause an issue is with TASS on Pendolinos. Would just mean 110mph max.

 

[Failed Unit]

Of course in certain parts of the world not a million miles away when class 153s used to produce on busy trains it wasn't all that unusual to have the back cab and occasionally the front cab also full of passengers as well as the train crew

Standard practice back in the day - shut the door across the driving controls, pack another 3 people into the standing space plus one or two sat on the secondman's desk if it was the big end and then wedge the guard in at the door panel.

A ludicrous way to run a railway but that was life for a very long while.

There's a video on YouTube somewhere that's over 10 years old showing a packed 153 screeching and wailing into the station with every inch of the train including both cabs full of passengers.

Reminds me of Lincoln Christmas Market weekend or most weekends when CT ran the Grimsby - Lincoln line,

 

[JN114]

Looks like there was no set available or it was used to strengthen elsewhere. Perhaps the root cause is some issue last night with football overcrowding hence the delay reason.

Serious overcrowding at Paddington meant a driver had to be taken off shed work at North Pole overnight to run an additional passenger train to help clear Paddington, that led to a spare Turbo being stolen off Reading to cover IET work briefly in the morning. It was expected a spare would come good for the Gatwick but ultimately it wasn’t to be.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I been in the rear cab of a 455 (running as a 4-car train) when the guard took pity on me and my son in his baby buggy. I've also been in a D stock train on the Tube at a time of disruption when, from my position wedged against the "J" door (inner cab door) I heard the driver of the first Richmond train for nearly an hour let some people ride in the cab (telling them "not to touch anything").

Envious? It was enough to Turnham Green!

 

[Taunton]

Could a train full of standees be too heavy?

Occasionally happened on the old 1960s lightweight dmus that if grossly overloaded the bodywork would flex, just a bit but to the extent that one or more door locks would not engage.

 

[ComUtoR]

Could a train full of standees be too heavy?

On one of the units I drive its possible. Only happened to me once in my entire career.

 

[Horizon22]

Serious overcrowding at Paddington meant a driver had to be taken off shed work at North Pole overnight to run an additional passenger train to help clear Paddington, that led to a spare Turbo being stolen off Reading to cover IET work briefly in the morning. It was expected a spare would come good for the Gatwick but ultimately it wasn’t to be.

Gathered it would be something like that! So the delay reason is technically right, even if its a fourth-hand impact.

 

[87007]

We found ourselves travelling in the rear cab during the Tour de France in Yorkshire, wouldn't have minded, they only had 2 years to plan for it and was still chaos.

 

[dk1]

Gathered it would be something like that! So the delay reason is technically right, even if its a fourth-hand impact.

Me too. Once the root cause is found it makes perfect sense.

 

[JN114]

Gathered it would be something like that! So the delay reason is technically right, even if its a fourth-hand impact.

Yeah, probably a bit of a reach - at least for the public-facing systems by the time it gets down to the Gatwick Cancellations.

RTT of course takes the delay code from the attribution (I think), so it is “correct” in RTT as that is how the alteration has been coded internally.

 

[Railcar]

Edgware Road (Sub Surface) station about 40 years ago. I was dashing down the steps as a westbound Hammersmith & City was about to leave. The driver had closed the doors, but he took pity on me. I had a ride 'on the cushions' to Shepherds Bush!

 

[Tomnick]

Of course in certain parts of the world not a million miles away when class 153s used to produce on busy trains it wasn't all that unusual to have the back cab and occasionally the front cab also full of passengers as well as the train crew

Standard practice back in the day - shut the door across the driving controls, pack another 3 people into the standing space plus one or two sat on the secondman's desk if it was the big end and then wedge the guard in at the door panel.

A ludicrous way to run a railway but that was life for a very long while.

There's a video on YouTube somewhere that's over 10 years old showing a packed 153 screeching and wailing into the station with every inch of the train including both cabs full of passengers.

Yes, back in the real world, I've had a cab full of luggage and/or folded pushchairs on quite a few occasions, or a plan in my head for how many I could fit in the cab if I did need to have a shuffle around to get out somewhere, and more than one special little prayer for Brickyard Lane crossing to behave!

 

[greyman42]

Edgware Road (Sub Surface) station about 40 years ago. I was dashing down the steps as a westbound Hammersmith & City was about to leave. The driver had closed the doors, but he took pity on me. I had a ride 'on the cushions' to Shepherds Bush!

What is "on the cushions"?

 

[dk1]

What is "on the cushions"?

Same as travelling ‘pass’.

 

[miklcct]

Never. Only times that can cause an issue is with TASS on Pendolinos. Would just mean 110mph max.

It happens in China though - there are circumstances where the EMU train (200-250 km/h max) can't run because of too many passengers refuse to get off the train on their ticketed destination, insisting a supplement to continue travel. (This is the way which passengers travel when they can't buy a ticket to their intended destination)

Correction - the overloading problem appears on the newer "Fuxing" EMU trains with 350 km/h max operation speed instead of the older trains running 200-250 km/h, as they are not designed to carry a lot of standing passengers.