car insurance prices

[miklcct]

I look for car insurance prices from time to time to see the affordability of a cheap car to me. Last year I entered my information and got £972 as the cheapest quote for a third-party, fire and theft insurance on a fully-depreciated used car with low tax and small power. As I have recently moved and some circumstances changed, I have tried quoting again, and the price skyrocketed, with the cheapest quote now £1714 and there is no way a car is affordable to normal people except the super rich at such premium.

What I changed in the quote was that:
* I moved my address within NW2, and changed from "street parking" to "driveway".
* I changed the use from "leisure and commuting" to "leisure, commuting and business", and mileage from 27000 personal to 20000 personal + 7000 business.
* I changed my employment status from "employed" to "self-employed", and my industry from "public transport" to "information technology".

£1714 can already get me 9 months of train travel, according to my journey records last year where the total fare is £2220 and the total distance is 27380 km.

I wonder what the circumstances are those people who get cheap car insurance, for example, in the low hundreds. At £1714 for insurance I can't see a day when I will actually buy my own car.

 

[Dai Corner]

Self-employed in IT with significant business mileage suggests you might be carrying lots of very expensive equipment around. 27,000 miles a year is around double the average too.

See what you get if you ask for social, domestic and pleasure (no commuting or business) for, say, 8000 miles.

 

[Mawkie]

I wonder what the circumstances are those people who get cheap car insurance, for example, in the low hundreds.

It's hardly rocket science, you've literally inputted an underwriter's nightmare scenario.

Over 50, in Hertfordshire, SDP+ Commuting, good NCB, 5 year old Golf = £270.

 

[ainsworth74]

See what you get if you ask for social, domestic and pleasure (no commuting or business) for, say, 8000 miles.

Agreed, I suspect a big reason for the cost is the mileage that the OP is looking at. 27,000 is substantial.

For me as a 30+ male, in Teesside, with business use, a decent no claims bonus driving a twelve year old Fiesta 8,000 miles (well, less, but that's what I quoted on) I had to pay £265 last year.

 

[PeterC]

I know that I pay a premium for averaging only 12k miles per year.

Despite working in IT for over 30 years I was mostly employed in house and was savvy enough to give my employment as the firms core business.

Not an option for you but for most new drivers a spell as a named driver on a parent's car can be beneficial. I was lucky to buy my first car when brokers still had local offices. Using the office that handled all the family business was an advantage.

 

[miklcct]

Agreed, I suspect a big reason for the cost is the mileage that the OP is looking at. 27,000 is substantial.

For me as a 30+ male, in Teesside, with business use, a decent no claims bonus driving a twelve year old Fiesta 8,000 miles (well, less, but that's what I quoted on) I had to pay £265 last year.

The number 27000 came from my travelling records, which I assumed I would replace all my public transport mileage with car mileage, at that time involving travelling between Bournemouth and the London commuter area for multiple times per week.

I now consider 27000 excessive for leisure travel but as I plan to become self employed, I will write the mileage to visit clients as business mileage which 7000 is appropriate.

For leisure travel, the mileage I'll drive depends on where I live. If I live in London maybe 10000 is enough for a year, but if I live far away from London I'll need much more. 20000 miles means going to a place 64 miles away, 3 times per week for 52 weeks a year which seems reasonable if I live outside London.

 

[12LDA28C]

The prices you mention are still substantially less than a first-time driver might pay soon after passing their test when often the cost of insurance is more than the price of their first car. Having said that I don't believe that anyone who can afford to pay those prices is necessarily 'super rich' as you claim.

I've paid no more than £500 per year for many years and that's despite owning a few powerful cars that were in the higher insurance groups, but then I'm an old fart who covers no more than 5000 miles a year and often significantly less. Of course building up a good NCB over time helps significantly and I would recommend protecting your NCB if you do eventually end up buying a car.

 

[DustyBin]

I have my two modern cars on a multi-car policy, but give or take a few pounds I could have insured them separately for the same overall cost last time around.

One car is a four month old hot hatch and the other is what’s now referred to as a “hyper hatch” so they’re not exactly insurance friendly. For 16,000 miles between them (which I never actually do), including business use, I pay roughly £600. I benefit from a no claims discount on both cars which makes all the difference; starting out as a new driver is an expensive business!

 

[richw]

Be careful inputting hypothetical scenarios into any insurance website. They cross reference quotes, and if you’ve tried various scenarios they may question the legitimacy of accepting the lowest scenario.

As a side 34 years bus driver PL14 postcode, street parking, 2018 seat Leon TDI auto, 12000 personal miles social domestic pleasure commuting 10 years no claims £230 a year.

 

[CBlue]

As mentioned above, the mileage you are quoting for is a very substantial amount and is far above any given average. Also consider that tax brackets on a car don't necessarily tally with its insurance grouping! What model/make did you enter?



£230 a year here, early 30s and 12,000 miles SDP / commuting for a 2016 Skoda, along with no claims for over ten years. I haven't paid over £500 for insurance since I was 23.

 

[E27007]

It is the 27000 miles per annum they are concerned over, 27000 miles that is a multiple of 3 to 4 of the annual mileage of a London-based car.
£1700 is around 16 pence per mile, not unreasonable in my opinion for an inner London postcode risk area

 

[Bald Rick]

As I have recently moved and some circumstances changed, I have tried quoting again, and the price skyrocketed, with the cheapest quote now £1714 and there is no way a car is affordable to normal people except the super rich at such premium.

Back when ‘I were a lad’ I bought my first car aged 18, and my insurance then was £400 a year. That’s the equivalent of £1200 a year now. I’m not super rich now, and I certainly wasn’t then as an 18 year old A level student with a part time job.

As others have said, it’s the mileage that’s the problem. The models will be assuming you’re doing an average proportion of your miles on the streets of North London. That will be a lot, and the risk of you having a prang is therefore raised. And whilst your car may be cheap and economical, lots of other cars on the streets of North Lonodn are definitley not.

 

[skyhigh]

there is no way a car is affordable to normal people except the super rich at such premium.

And here we go again.

Cars are affordable to a large proportion of the population. Otherwise there's thousands of billionaires in my town who run 2 car households.

Your situation is, as many things with you, pretty unusual. Massive milage, busy area, no NCB.

I've also found that comprehensive has always been cheaper than third party.

 

[route101]

Mine jumped up after a minor car park incident ( My fault), went up like £700 quid!

 

[cactustwirly]

I look for car insurance prices from time to time to see the affordability of a cheap car to me. Last year I entered my information and got £972 as the cheapest quote for a third-party, fire and theft insurance on a fully-depreciated used car with low tax and small power. As I have recently moved and some circumstances changed, I have tried quoting again, and the price skyrocketed, with the cheapest quote now £1714 and there is no way a car is affordable to normal people except the super rich at such premium.

What I changed in the quote was that:
* I moved my address within NW2, and changed from "street parking" to "driveway".
* I changed the use from "leisure and commuting" to "leisure, commuting and business", and mileage from 27000 personal to 20000 personal + 7000 business.
* I changed my employment status from "employed" to "self-employed", and my industry from "public transport" to "information technology".

£1714 can already get me 9 months of train travel, according to my journey records last year where the total fare is £2220 and the total distance is 27380 km.

I wonder what the circumstances are those people who get cheap car insurance, for example, in the low hundreds. At £1714 for insurance I can't see a day when I will actually buy my own car.

You're only 3rd party, fire and theft, which is riskier and therefore more expensive than fully comp.

27000 miles is a lot, and business use is riskier therefore more expensive to insure.

I'd imagine a lot of London has high risk postcodes so more expensive to insure.

What car are you insuring, if it's something like a 1.2 Corsa then that could be quite expensive for a 1st time driver. As it's very popular first car and often crashed a lot

 

[miklcct]

You're only 3rd party, fire and theft, which is riskier and therefore more expensive than fully comp.

27000 miles is a lot, and business use is riskier therefore more expensive to insure.

I'd imagine a lot of London has high risk postcodes so more expensive to insure.

What car are you insuring, if it's something like a 1.2 Corsa then that could be quite expensive for a 1st time driver. As it's very popular first car and often crashed a lot

I have checked the mileage record again, and my total mileage last year (including on public transport and car hire in the UK, but excluding air / water modes) was indeed very close to 20000 miles, all of them leisure (as I had no commuting last year), which is the figure I have entered in the most recent quote, with an additional 7000 business mileage on top as an anticipation.

However, if I only include the days when the speed of public transport is unlikely to be competitive with a car (defined as the average speed of the day on public transport < 70 km/h), the total mileage driven will drop from 20000 to 9000.

The car I used to get a quote is a 2006 TOYOTA AYGO +, 998CC Petrol, 5DR, Manual.

 

[Ken X]

Some of my compatriots have children starting to drive. If the child put one of their parents on their insurance as a second named driver, which is not an unreasonable scenario, the quote dropped somewhat.

Not to be confused with making a parent the main driver which is frowned upon as a fraudulent declaration.

 

[steamybrian]

Following advice given on Martin Lewis Money Saving TV programmes-
I get the lowest quote on a comparison site and then contact that insurance company direct and negotiate a lower price with them. Just renewed my car insurance - quoted price on a comparison price site was £535, their initial renewal quote sent to me was £374, rung them direct and negotiated and settled on £349. My car is 2017 Kia Venga.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have checked the mileage record again, and my total mileage last year (including on public transport and car hire in the UK, but excluding air / water modes) was indeed very close to 20000 miles, all of them leisure (as I had no commuting last year), which is the figure I have entered in the most recent quote, with an additional 7000 business mileage on top as an anticipation.

Just to check - by business miles do you mean ordinary commuting, or do you mean business travel for which you are paid expenses? You only need business travel on there at all if you're doing the latter. If you're just driving to your normal workplace this is under "social, domestic and pleasure plus commuting" which is usually the base level (second level with some insurers).

If you do do actual (expensed) business travel, it's worth looking around at different policies. It may not still be the case, but Direct Line, for one, always used to give you Business Class 1 (covers policyholder only) for free for most professions. (You're not selecting "commercial travel" by mistake are you? This is a specific type of business travel mostly around sales, and you'll know if you need it, and it is VERY expensive).

As for the mileage, I agree with others this is high. 10-15K is fairly average, and there are "jumps" with most insurers - it's worth playing around to see what they are and picking the highest number before a "jump" then you won't have to pay a change fee to increase it unnecessarily. While I do often recommend you buy a car, I'm sure the train will still suit some of your travel, it does for me (though less so at present due to the well documented issues).

One thing others haven't (I think) mentioned is No Claims Discount, which is one reason initial policies are often quite expensive. This gets you typically up to 65-70% discount, building up over about 5 years or so (varies by insurer) of you not having made any claims. Note that this is a no CLAIMS discount, not a no ACCIDENTS discount - so if you are involved in one it relies on being able to claim fully from the other insurer and not your own. Some insurers let you pay a little extra to "protect" it once earned so you either don't lose it or only lose some of it if you do have a minor accident, which as a new driver is fairly likely, particularly somewhere like London where driving is very fraught. Some insurers will offer an introductory discount (typically 2-3 years' worth) to a new policyholder - it's worth shopping around to see which do.

Finally, while the comparison sites are handy to give you an idea, I would generally recommend doing a quote via the insurer directly, because you then find out which questions are important to them. The comparison sites ask you lots of things, only some of which are relevant to each insurer, and if any of them are awkward (e.g. the number of business miles above - I find hardly any insurer asks that, just the total) then it can avoid you getting in a sticky situation later. This is rather counter to my statement that using Trainsplit to work out a split and then buy it elsewhere is a bit immoral, but it's not for saving money, the cost will usually come up the same, rather it's to reduce the risk of an erroneous answer biting you later on the very complex forms the comparison sites use.

 

[mikeb42]

I'm surprised by the emphasis many posters are putting on mileage. This may be because it is mileage - but in context. Especially if the insurer thinks that most of this is business miles.

Anecdote doesn't equal evidence, but my take is partly based on being insured for and driving up to 60,000 miles/year for many years. The car resides at an address in a big ugly city, albeit one a long way from London. Ironically, much of this mileage is accrued driving to London as the nominally preferable alternative of using GWR is so often abandoned thanks to the unpunctual, unreliable, wiltingly expensive, surprisingly slow & now perpetually on strike service. But I digress... For this, I'm paying about £500 a year on a moderately high performance car whose natural habitat according to urban wisdom is 2 inches from someone's bumper in the outside lane of the M1 at 90mph.

My circumstances are of course incomparable with the OP's - and that's the point. If I was 23 and had 0 No Claims, all else being equal, quotes would probably either be £5000 a year or just a flat out decline to quote from most providers. Conversely, when your age starts with a 4 and you've got 15 years No Claims despite insuring for high mileage for years on end, it can cost not all that much.

The axiom about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts applies to insurance. High mileage is an actuary's nightmare if you are also insuring a car for Third Party, Fire & Theft only - a choice known to be correlated with flexible views on the rule of law and/or driving like your hair is on fire.

You have to take the hit for a few years when you first start insuring a car. As any actuary could prove to you with data, most of what is knowable at that stage is that such drivers present a massively bigger risk to their insurer than almost anyone else. Once you've established an actual track record of not leaving a trail of wreckage in your wake, things improve rapidly.

 

[DustyBin]

I'm surprised by the emphasis many posters are putting on mileage. This may be because it is mileage - but in context. Especially if the insurer thinks that most of this is business miles.

Anecdote doesn't equal evidence, but my take is partly based on being insured for and driving up to 60,000 miles/year for many years. The car resides at an address in a big ugly city, albeit one a long way from London. Ironically, much of this mileage is accrued driving to London as the nominally preferable alternative of using GWR is so often abandoned thanks to the unpunctual, unreliable, wiltingly expensive, surprisingly slow & now perpetually on strike service. But I digress... For this, I'm paying about £500 a year on a moderately high performance car whose natural habitat according to urban wisdom is 2 inches from someone's bumper in the outside lane of the M1 at 90mph.

My circumstances are of course incomparable with the OP's - and that's the point. If I was 23 and had 0 No Claims, all else being equal, quotes would probably either be £5000 a year or just a flat out decline to quote from most providers. Conversely, when your age starts with a 4 and you've got 15 years No Claims despite insuring for high mileage for years on end, it can cost not all that much.

The axiom about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts applies to insurance. High mileage is an actuary's nightmare if you are also insuring a car for Third Party, Fire & Theft only - a choice known to be correlated with flexible views on the rule of law and/or driving like your hair is on fire.

You have to take the hit for a few years when you first start insuring a car. As any actuary could prove to you with data, most of what is knowable at that stage is that such drivers present a massively bigger risk to their insurer than almost anyone else. Once you've established an actual track record of not leaving a trail of wreckage in your wake, things improve rapidly.

330e?

On a serious note, I did mention NCB in passing but @Bletchleyite and yourself are quite correct; it makes a huge difference, as does not being in your early 20s.

 

[Dai Corner]

330e?

On a serious note, I did mention NCB in passing but @Bletchleyite and yourself are quite correct; it makes a huge difference, as does not being in your early 20s.

Another thing against the OP is that he hasn't been resident n the UK that long ;(I understand).

A common suggestion for drivers with unusual circumstances or requirements is to consult a local 'high street' insurance broker who may have access to more specialist insurers who the comparison sites don't bother with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another thing against the OP is that he hasn't been resident n the UK that long ;(I understand).

Yes, that can crank it up a bit. Though I've never heard my Polish best mate (moved here about 10 years ago now) complain about it being unduly expensive - I think his costs about the same as mine, though admittedly on a slightly (but not vastly*) cheaper car.

* Mine's a Ford Kuga and his a 5 door Fiesta, but mine's the base model and his is both a couple of years newer and more specced-up.

as does not being in your early 20s.

Definitely. I found the big steps down were at 21, 25 and 30, at least for me.

 

[ABB125]

Car insurance is an interesting art. For some insurers, third party fire and theft is cheaper than comprehensive; for others it's the other way round. Try both, see what happens.
See whether changing your occupation makes a difference. Obviously don't put something blatantly false (eg: florist rather than car salesperson), but see what you can find that's "similar but different" (eg: "assistant in education" rather than "teaching assistant"; no idea if this particular example works).
Address is another key issue. My car insurance renewal was around £300 with the address set as home (village in semi-rural Worcestershire). That shoots up to around £800 if I put my university address (Selly Oak, Birmingham). Fortunately, the car spends most of its time parked at home as I don't need it in Birmingham, and is addressed as such.
Named drivers - is there someone else you can add to the policy, ideally who has driving history? This will almost always reduce the price for a new driver.

For reference, my car is a slightly less than perfect condition* Peugeot 107 (same as the Toyota Aygo @miklcct used). About £800 first year, £350 second year, £300 third and fourth (having said that, I'm not sure those numbers are quite correct. But I can't be bothered to check!). With both parents, my older brother and an uncle as named drivers. Same insurer every time.

Edit:
I should add that I haven't (quite) passed the 21 age threshold (which also seems to unlock list of other things, such as hiring a van). It'll be interesting to see what my renewal quote is next October.
Oh, and I've always had TPFT. Cheaper than comprehensive (though I might have swapped at the last renewal, I can't remember)

Extra edit:
I forgot to explain the "*"! The car was in perfectly good condition, until my mum had an "off road excursion" in the recent cold weather...

 

[mikeb42]

330e?

Ah, well, with NCB comes age it seems, and the out-of-touchness to not realise urban wisdom has obviously been updated for the era of hybrid vehicles. Last I checked it was Audis that were the maniac's conveyance of choice anyway. You're close - but no cigar.

Also on a serious note that may actually help the OP - almost never is getting quotes for 3rd Party F&F going to help you. Even if the car in question is worth peanuts, it's usually better to get a quote for fully comprehensive insurance. 3rd Party F&F carries with it an implication that you're almost planning on wrapping the car around street furniture or parking it in a ditch at some point, irrational though this may seem.

Also quoting for high mileages on a small old car may not work out as well as you'd hope. Motorway cruisers are expected to be doing high mileages - small city cars perhaps not. The incongruity may ring alarm bells - though this is mere speculation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah, well, with NCB comes age it seems, and the out-of-touchness to not realise urban wisdom has obviously been updated for the era of hybrid vehicles. Last I checked it was Audis that were the maniac's conveyance of choice anyway. You're close - but no cigar.

Doesn't seem to be much of that maniac behaviour now going on anyway, primarily due to the cost of fuel and increased prevalance of cameras. I've just come back from a long motorway journey on which I was more often the fastest vehicle than not, and that was on the limiter set to 73 (actual 70 by GPS on my car). I wonder if that's reducing rear-endings and so affecting insurance prices, possibly making premium German cars less of a step up?

 

[miklcct]

Just to check - by business miles do you mean ordinary commuting, or do you mean business travel for which you are paid expenses? You only need business travel on there at all if you're doing the latter. If you're just driving to your normal workplace this is under "social, domestic and pleasure plus commuting" which is usually the base level (second level with some insurers).

I mean business travel which is expensed by my own company using the HMRC rate. My plan is to become a contractor through my limited company and will have multiple clients in a year. Driving to client's site for business purpose counts as business travel.

 

[bspahh]

If you buy and insure a car right now, with Social, Domestic & Pleasure use and a bit less annual mileage, perhaps with a tracker to get a cheaper rate. After a claim-free year, the savings from a no claims bonus might pay for the running costs in the first year.

BTW, I spent a year commuting 100 miles a day for the round trip. It was rubbish. I would be mentally tired in the evening. It was a real pain when I was ill or if there were traffic problems. I would also watch some videos of NCAP crash tests, and then go for a bigger car than an Aygo/C1.

 

[DustyBin]

Ah, well, with NCB comes age it seems, and the out-of-touchness to not realise urban wisdom has obviously been updated for the era of hybrid vehicles. Last I checked it was Audis that were the maniac's conveyance of choice anyway. You're close - but no cigar.

Audis are generally mere non-indicators in my experience; BMWs still reign supreme when it comes to tailgating and all-round maniac conveyance. Although with my taste in cars I’m wide open to allegations of pot, kettle and black!

Also on a serious note that may actually help the OP - almost never is getting quotes for 3rd Party F&F going to help you. Even if the car in question is worth peanuts, it's usually better to get a quote for fully comprehensive insurance. 3rd Party F&F carries with it an implication that you're almost planning on wrapping the car around street furniture or parking it in a ditch at some point, irrational though this may seem.

Yes good point.

Another “trap”, although it’s definitely not applicable here, is specifying too low a mileage. Again it makes sense in a way.

Also quoting for high mileages on a small old car may not work out as well as you'd hope. Motorway cruisers are expected to be doing high mileages - small city cars perhaps not. The incongruity may ring alarm bells - though this is mere speculation.

Nothing would surprise me.

A broker once told me that my premium would be lower if I didn’t keep the car in the garage, the logic being that once inside a thief is more likely to be left undisturbed, giving them more time to overcome multi-layer security. I suppose this is true, but I’m more concerned with keeping the local cats off the car!

 

[Bletchleyite]

BTW, I spent a year commuting 100 miles a day for the round trip. It was rubbish. I would be mentally tired in the evening. It was a real pain when I was ill or if there were traffic problems. I would also watch some videos of NCAP crash tests, and then go for a bigger car than an Aygo/C1.

I did do a daily commute from MK to Slough by car for a bit, I stopped when an accident was narrowly avoided by another driver's actions, I had made a stupid mistake due to being too tired. I switched to the train despite the cost being double and journey time an hour longer.

I would strongly counsel against a daily commute by car of longer than about 45 minutes each way if it can at all be avoided.

A broker once told me that my premium would be lower if I didn’t keep the car in the garage, the logic being that once inside a thief is more likely to be left undisturbed, giving them more time to overcome multi-layer security. I suppose this is true, but I’m more concerned with keeping the local cats off the car!

There's all manner of weird stuff. The other one I came across is of it being cheaper to park a very "stealable" car on the road because you don't then know for certain which house to break into to nick the keys so are more likely to go for one on the driveway.

It's just a case of being honest, really. While some insurers don't seem to behave that way (unsurprising when people compare solely on price), insurance is a contract of good faith. If you mostly park on the road, put that etc. If you're genuinely 50-50 or whatever (e.g. your household has two cars and you have one off road space and don't always use it for one), contact them (ideally in a form where you get the answer in writing) and ask them what to put, most likely they'll either say they can't cover that (so you have to decide which to do) or they'll tell you which is the more expensive of the two and to pick that.