Cardiff Bus/Coach Station

[Jellyfish261]

Castle Street now has cycle lanes taking up one of the two eastbound lanes. This has created massive traffic jams.

I did indeed suggest that the Old Library on The Hayes be used as at TIC. The staff already appear to deal with visiting tourists but they should have a plentiful supply of city maps. I don’t see why the spare space in this area can’t have racks for leaflets promoting nearby attractions such as Castell Coch, Caerphilly Castle, Llandaff Cathedral, St.Fagans Castle & Museum, Dyffryn Gardens and Tredegar House. Space could also surely be found to promote other places in Wales such as The Showcaves in the Swansea Valley, Brecon Mountain Railway, Big Pit and places further away in the rest of the country. That would cost the Council nothing.

I also note that The Cardiff Museum (inside the Old Library) is not clearly marked on the outside - just the word “Welcome”. This is bad marketing.

A new multi storey car park is going to be built on the Brain’s Brewery site. The present station car park will be used by the tram-trains linking Central Station to the Bay with the ultimate intention of this forming an east > west cross city route.

Don't disagree with the points RE: Cardiff Story and the TIC, but the point about cycle lanes being the the cause of traffic jams needs challenge - cars have their place undoubtedly, but the amount of wasted space they take up in city centre - both in movement and space taken for parking needs challenge - it is simply too many cars that cause the traffic jams.

Make it easier to drive, you get more motor traffic (e.g. reopening Castle St to through motor vehicles) - give space to pedestrians/cycles/buses and then you start to see a shift to active and public transport - really I think Cardiff missed a trick with Castle St by not restricting the opening to only buses, taxis and cycles.

 

[markymark2000]

Don't disagree with the points RE: Cardiff Story and the TIC, but the point about cycle lanes being the the cause of traffic jams needs challenge - cars have their place undoubtedly, but the amount of wasted space they take up in city centre - both in movement and space taken for parking needs challenge - it is simply too many cars that cause the traffic jams.

Make it easier to drive, you get more motor traffic (e.g. reopening Castle St to through motor vehicles) - give space to pedestrians/cycles/buses and then you start to see a shift to active and public transport - really I think Cardiff missed a trick with Castle St by not restricting the opening to only buses, taxis and cycles.

I fully agree that we need to make driving less attractive but in some of the cases, the push for more cycling infrastructure is having a detrimental effect on buses. Cardiff Council are actively trying to push people off buses by making them constantly slower and putting bus passengers as the lowest priority. For those unaware, see the photo below for what bus passengers have to contend with. You may think, that isn't as bad as it looks, what if I told you that is a two way bike lane? Why should bus passengers have to contend with this?

Given cyclists can use bus lanes, why is the focus not on more bus lanes and then everyone wins? Instead all road vehicles suffer including those which may be carrying lots of people. In some of the cases, the bike lanes aren't very well used either and it's ended up messing up the city and making things more congested for buses as well as motorists. The example that comes to mind is Tudor Street where they removed the bus lane to create the bike lane. 15 buses per hour use that section of road and these are now getting more delayed due to the amount of cars. The only way to remove the issue is ban cars and let's be honest, that is not going to happen and there will always be people who need to use their car a motor vehicle for some things. What can and should happen though is rather than create more traffic and hope people leave their car at home, you should be making buses more attractive. No one sits in traffic behind a bus and goes 'you know what, I may try that tomorrow, sit on that bus with everyone else, that will really help my day'. If however buses are flying past the cars which are sat in the traffic, you get jealous, exactly like happened with Joe Anderson, mayor of Liverpool (who famously rid bus lanes because he was jealous of watching all of the buses go past him while he was in traffic), and there is a lot more chance of someone going 'look at all of these buses going past me, I may get one of them tomorrow, they look so fast, I'll be home in no time'. Encourage people onto buses, not discourage them out of their car. Same end result, very different way of achieving that result.

 

[Jellyfish261]

Fair points - and I do agree that additional bus lanes or even gates would be beneficial in Cardiff - especially if buses are being funnelled into/from the new bus station site. Does anyone know if those coming in from the West or North (via Westgate St) would need to do a lap of St Mary St to enter via the 'back' access (adjacent to the Station), or will they be able to access directly from the Wood St junction? Suspect the former, when added up for each bus movement over the day, would add up to a considerable delay to each bus as they navigate the loop. Many thanks.

 

[markymark2000]

Fair points - and I do agree that additional bus lanes or even gates would be beneficial in Cardiff - especially if buses are being funnelled into/from the new bus station site. Does anyone know if those coming in from the West or North (via Westgate St) would need to do a lap of St Mary St to enter via the 'back' access (adjacent to the Station), or will they be able to access directly from the Wood St junction? Suspect the former, when added up for each bus movement over the day, would add up to a considerable delay to each bus as they navigate the loop. Many thanks.

Planning documents show that buses can enter via Wood Street though the turn looks rather tight.

 

[johncrossley]

Given cyclists can use bus lanes, why is the focus not on more bus lanes and then everyone wins?

Bikes and buses don't mix given the vast difference in size. Putting bikes in bus lanes is just for practicality and is not a pro-bike measure. If there is no separate cycle path bikes would have to go into the other lane(s) if they can't go in the bus lane.

It was confirmed somewhere on here that bikes don't use bus lanes in the Netherlands, because it is not safe.

If you have decent bike infrastructure like in the Netherlands, then bus use is dramatically reduced as bikes generally replace buses for short distance trips. That is one of the reasons why there is so much hostility to cycling on this and other UK public transport forums. They are scared of the potential competition from bikes. But bikes have a greater potential to cut car trips than buses in all but the largest cities. In a small to medium sized town/city with Dutch style cycle infrastructure you can often cycle door to door in about 15-20 minutes, often much less, with no congestion worries. There's little reason to use buses in such circumstances.

 

[Jellyfish261]

Planning documents show that buses can enter via Wood Street though the turn looks rather tight.

Super, thank you - agree looks a little tight but at least they won't lose time looping through the two sets of lights on St Mary St

 

[anthony263]

I fully agree that we need to make driving less attractive but in some of the cases, the push for more cycling infrastructure is having a detrimental effect on buses. Cardiff Council are actively trying to push people off buses by making them constantly slower and putting bus passengers as the lowest priority. For those unaware, see the photo below for what bus passengers have to contend with. You may think, that isn't as bad as it looks, what if I told you that is a two way bike lane? Why should bus passengers have to contend with this?

Given cyclists can use bus lanes, why is the focus not on more bus lanes and then everyone wins? Instead all road vehicles suffer including those which may be carrying lots of people. In some of the cases, the bike lanes aren't very well used either and it's ended up messing up the city and making things more congested for buses as well as motorists. The example that comes to mind is Tudor Street where they removed the bus lane to create the bike lane. 15 buses per hour use that section of road and these are now getting more delayed due to the amount of cars. The only way to remove the issue is ban cars and let's be honest, that is not going to happen and there will always be people who need to use their car a motor vehicle for some things. What can and should happen though is rather than create more traffic and hope people leave their car at home, you should be making buses more attractive. No one sits in traffic behind a bus and goes 'you know what, I may try that tomorrow, sit on that bus with everyone else, that will really help my day'. If however buses are flying past the cars which are sat in the traffic, you get jealous, exactly like happened with Joe Anderson, mayor of Liverpool (who famously rid bus lanes because he was jealous of watching all of the buses go past him while he was in traffic), and there is a lot more chance of someone going 'look at all of these buses going past me, I may get one of them tomorrow, they look so fast, I'll be home in no time'. Encourage people onto buses, not discourage them out of their car. Same end result, very different way of achieving that result.

That bus stop is dangerous with that cycle lane. I always used to check the nearside mirror after I stopped and before opening the doors when I drove the C8.

 

[Markdvdman]

Has anybody got an inkling of when the bus staion is opening (I know will only be partly initially)?

 

[GusB]

Reopened for further discussion.

 

[markymark2000]

Little update. Stagecoach South Wales have reregistered the 122 and 124 services to use the new bus station from the 10th June. Specific information is courtesy of Bustimes.org (who in turn get their data from the traffic commissioners dataset). Possibly this will be the opening date which is as yet, unannounced. On the plus side, we learn that at least 2 services will go to the new bus station.

PG0006630/227 – bustimes.org

122 - Tonypandy to Cardiff via Llandaf and Talbot Green

Variation history
Received 16 Apr 24
Effective 10 Jun 24
Registered
Short notice
Monday to Sunday (Origin/Departure Stop changed to Cardiff Bus Interchange)

Operating between Tonypandy and Cardiff given service number 122 effective from 10 June 2024. To amend Route and Start & Finish Point.

PG0006630/245 – bustimes.org

124 - Cardiff Bus Interchange to Maerdy via Cross Inn, Talbot Green

Variation history
Received 15 Apr 24
Effective 10 Jun 24
Registered
Starting point change

Operating between Cardiff Bus Interchange and Maerdy given service number 124 effective from 10 June 2024. To amend Route and Stopping Places.

 

[317 forever]

That change suggests that Cardiff Bus Interchange is due to open on Monday June 10th.