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Cardiff Bus/Coach Station

Jellyfish261

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9 Jan 2023
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18
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Mid Wales
Castle Street now has cycle lanes taking up one of the two eastbound lanes. This has created massive traffic jams.

I did indeed suggest that the Old Library on The Hayes be used as at TIC. The staff already appear to deal with visiting tourists but they should have a plentiful supply of city maps. I don’t see why the spare space in this area can’t have racks for leaflets promoting nearby attractions such as Castell Coch, Caerphilly Castle, Llandaff Cathedral, St.Fagans Castle & Museum, Dyffryn Gardens and Tredegar House. Space could also surely be found to promote other places in Wales such as The Showcaves in the Swansea Valley, Brecon Mountain Railway, Big Pit and places further away in the rest of the country. That would cost the Council nothing.

I also note that The Cardiff Museum (inside the Old Library) is not clearly marked on the outside - just the word “Welcome”. This is bad marketing.

A new multi storey car park is going to be built on the Brain’s Brewery site. The present station car park will be used by the tram-trains linking Central Station to the Bay with the ultimate intention of this forming an east > west cross city route.
Don't disagree with the points RE: Cardiff Story and the TIC, but the point about cycle lanes being the the cause of traffic jams needs challenge - cars have their place undoubtedly, but the amount of wasted space they take up in city centre - both in movement and space taken for parking needs challenge - it is simply too many cars that cause the traffic jams.

Make it easier to drive, you get more motor traffic (e.g. reopening Castle St to through motor vehicles) - give space to pedestrians/cycles/buses and then you start to see a shift to active and public transport - really I think Cardiff missed a trick with Castle St by not restricting the opening to only buses, taxis and cycles.
 
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markymark2000

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Don't disagree with the points RE: Cardiff Story and the TIC, but the point about cycle lanes being the the cause of traffic jams needs challenge - cars have their place undoubtedly, but the amount of wasted space they take up in city centre - both in movement and space taken for parking needs challenge - it is simply too many cars that cause the traffic jams.

Make it easier to drive, you get more motor traffic (e.g. reopening Castle St to through motor vehicles) - give space to pedestrians/cycles/buses and then you start to see a shift to active and public transport - really I think Cardiff missed a trick with Castle St by not restricting the opening to only buses, taxis and cycles.
I fully agree that we need to make driving less attractive but in some of the cases, the push for more cycling infrastructure is having a detrimental effect on buses. Cardiff Council are actively trying to push people off buses by making them constantly slower and putting bus passengers as the lowest priority. For those unaware, see the photo below for what bus passengers have to contend with. You may think, that isn't as bad as it looks, what if I told you that is a two way bike lane? Why should bus passengers have to contend with this?

Given cyclists can use bus lanes, why is the focus not on more bus lanes and then everyone wins? Instead all road vehicles suffer including those which may be carrying lots of people. In some of the cases, the bike lanes aren't very well used either and it's ended up messing up the city and making things more congested for buses as well as motorists. The example that comes to mind is Tudor Street where they removed the bus lane to create the bike lane. 15 buses per hour use that section of road and these are now getting more delayed due to the amount of cars. The only way to remove the issue is ban cars and let's be honest, that is not going to happen and there will always be people who need to use their car a motor vehicle for some things. What can and should happen though is rather than create more traffic and hope people leave their car at home, you should be making buses more attractive. No one sits in traffic behind a bus and goes 'you know what, I may try that tomorrow, sit on that bus with everyone else, that will really help my day'. If however buses are flying past the cars which are sat in the traffic, you get jealous, exactly like happened with Joe Anderson, mayor of Liverpool (who famously rid bus lanes because he was jealous of watching all of the buses go past him while he was in traffic), and there is a lot more chance of someone going 'look at all of these buses going past me, I may get one of them tomorrow, they look so fast, I'll be home in no time'. Encourage people onto buses, not discourage them out of their car. Same end result, very different way of achieving that result.
 

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Jellyfish261

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Mid Wales
Fair points - and I do agree that additional bus lanes or even gates would be beneficial in Cardiff - especially if buses are being funnelled into/from the new bus station site. Does anyone know if those coming in from the West or North (via Westgate St) would need to do a lap of St Mary St to enter via the 'back' access (adjacent to the Station), or will they be able to access directly from the Wood St junction? Suspect the former, when added up for each bus movement over the day, would add up to a considerable delay to each bus as they navigate the loop. Many thanks.
 

markymark2000

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Fair points - and I do agree that additional bus lanes or even gates would be beneficial in Cardiff - especially if buses are being funnelled into/from the new bus station site. Does anyone know if those coming in from the West or North (via Westgate St) would need to do a lap of St Mary St to enter via the 'back' access (adjacent to the Station), or will they be able to access directly from the Wood St junction? Suspect the former, when added up for each bus movement over the day, would add up to a considerable delay to each bus as they navigate the loop. Many thanks.
Planning documents show that buses can enter via Wood Street though the turn looks rather tight.
 

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johncrossley

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Given cyclists can use bus lanes, why is the focus not on more bus lanes and then everyone wins?

Bikes and buses don't mix given the vast difference in size. Putting bikes in bus lanes is just for practicality and is not a pro-bike measure. If there is no separate cycle path bikes would have to go into the other lane(s) if they can't go in the bus lane.

It was confirmed somewhere on here that bikes don't use bus lanes in the Netherlands, because it is not safe.

If you have decent bike infrastructure like in the Netherlands, then bus use is dramatically reduced as bikes generally replace buses for short distance trips. That is one of the reasons why there is so much hostility to cycling on this and other UK public transport forums. They are scared of the potential competition from bikes. But bikes have a greater potential to cut car trips than buses in all but the largest cities. In a small to medium sized town/city with Dutch style cycle infrastructure you can often cycle door to door in about 15-20 minutes, often much less, with no congestion worries. There's little reason to use buses in such circumstances.
 

anthony263

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I fully agree that we need to make driving less attractive but in some of the cases, the push for more cycling infrastructure is having a detrimental effect on buses. Cardiff Council are actively trying to push people off buses by making them constantly slower and putting bus passengers as the lowest priority. For those unaware, see the photo below for what bus passengers have to contend with. You may think, that isn't as bad as it looks, what if I told you that is a two way bike lane? Why should bus passengers have to contend with this?

Given cyclists can use bus lanes, why is the focus not on more bus lanes and then everyone wins? Instead all road vehicles suffer including those which may be carrying lots of people. In some of the cases, the bike lanes aren't very well used either and it's ended up messing up the city and making things more congested for buses as well as motorists. The example that comes to mind is Tudor Street where they removed the bus lane to create the bike lane. 15 buses per hour use that section of road and these are now getting more delayed due to the amount of cars. The only way to remove the issue is ban cars and let's be honest, that is not going to happen and there will always be people who need to use their car a motor vehicle for some things. What can and should happen though is rather than create more traffic and hope people leave their car at home, you should be making buses more attractive. No one sits in traffic behind a bus and goes 'you know what, I may try that tomorrow, sit on that bus with everyone else, that will really help my day'. If however buses are flying past the cars which are sat in the traffic, you get jealous, exactly like happened with Joe Anderson, mayor of Liverpool (who famously rid bus lanes because he was jealous of watching all of the buses go past him while he was in traffic), and there is a lot more chance of someone going 'look at all of these buses going past me, I may get one of them tomorrow, they look so fast, I'll be home in no time'. Encourage people onto buses, not discourage them out of their car. Same end result, very different way of achieving that result.
That bus stop is dangerous with that cycle lane. I always used to check the nearside mirror after I stopped and before opening the doors when I drove the C8.
 

markymark2000

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Little update. Stagecoach South Wales have reregistered the 122 and 124 services to use the new bus station from the 10th June. Specific information is courtesy of Bustimes.org (who in turn get their data from the traffic commissioners dataset). Possibly this will be the opening date which is as yet, unannounced. On the plus side, we learn that at least 2 services will go to the new bus station.


122 - Tonypandy to Cardiff via Llandaf and Talbot Green

Variation history
Received 16 Apr 24
Effective 10 Jun 24
Registered
Short notice
Monday to Sunday (Origin/Departure Stop changed to Cardiff Bus Interchange)

Operating between Tonypandy and Cardiff given service number 122 effective from 10 June 2024. To amend Route and Start & Finish Point.

124 - Cardiff Bus Interchange to Maerdy via Cross Inn, Talbot Green

Variation history
Received 15 Apr 24
Effective 10 Jun 24
Registered
Starting point change

Operating between Cardiff Bus Interchange and Maerdy given service number 124 effective from 10 June 2024. To amend Route and Stopping Places.
 

Wuggie Norple

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9 Sep 2021
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Cardiff
That change suggests that Cardiff Bus Interchange is due to open on Monday June 10th.
Or maybe not - I see that Stagecoach have now registered a change to the 122 effective from 2nd June, changing the origin/departure stop to Greyfriars Road (GN). 124 will also use this stop.

I also noticed today that all the bus stops on the west side of Lower St Mary Street have been completely removed.

Nick.
 
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DaveHarries

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England
Or maybe not - I see that Stagecoach have now registered a change to the 122 effective from 2nd June, changing the origin/departure stop to Greyfriars Road (GN). 124 will also use this stop.

I also noticed today that all the bus stops on Lower St Mary Street have been completely removed.

Nick.
Cardiff Bus have registered route and timetable changes for services 4 and 13 (also stopping places change for the 13) along with TT changes for Services 32, 61, 62, 63, 92 (loss of 92B), 95 & 96 effective 30/06/2024 which may relate to the bus station.

Dave
 

GusB

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9 Jul 2016
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Elginshire
A reminder:

If referring to an external text-based source, you should put a suitable section of the text in QUOTE tags and provide, as appropriate, details of the source and a relevant comment to promote discussion.
 

Markdvdman

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A reminder: Sorry on mobile I did try but your site kept moving the url as invalid when I tried to post! I meant to say few bus services are using it
 

markymark2000

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Hope this helps everyone.


Transport for Wales is pleased to announce that Cardiff Bus Interchange will open in June with bus services scheduled to start on Sunday 30 June 2024.

On 27, 28 and 29 June TfW will open the doors to the new interchange so that members of the public can learn about the new facilities on offer before bus services officially start running from 30 June.

With 14 bus bays, the new transport interchange will be operated by Transport for Wales and will help improve the public transport network in Wales.

Customer Ambassadors will be on hand during the customer familiarisation days to give more information about the new services and help with any concerns.

TfW has been working with local bus operators to confirm which services will run from the new interchange when it opens – these details will be shared soon.

Marie Daly, Chief Customer and Culture Officer at TfW said:

“We’re pleased to be opening the new bus interchange next month and look forward to welcoming customers on the 27, 28 and 29 June to see the new facilities and learn about the new bus services.

“Further updates on the bus services that will run from the new facility will be confirmed soon.”

TfW has been working with bus operator partners and Cardiff Council to prepare for the opening.
 

markymark2000

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I shall try again on the desktop! Wales Online showing the actual buses using it initially, which is not a lot!:

You say not a lot but when you look at it, it is quite a bit. These routes make roughly 45 buses per hour. I'd say there is room for more services but that depends on how efficient Cardiff Bus are. Will they have buses sitting on layover for a long time or will buses be in and out?. A drive on, drive off stand can safely take 6 buses per hour (sometimes more but this is a safe limit to go by and so that would make a the capacity 84 buses per hour. Based on the above routes, that makes 45 buses per hour so just over half capacity. I doubt that TFW or operators would want to go to capacity on day one and get egg on their face. This is a major project for the city and to make a mess of it wouldn't do reputations any good.
 

Markdvdman

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Merthyr Tydfil / Gorslas
Good point but the bus station is a joke compared to Swansea (whixh can take coaches as we all know)! How can this be the case after all these years? Worst one for me is the T4 Merthyr to Cardiff bus is not using it. Would be the perfect link, but persists to Greyfriars Road. Mind you it is well over priced compared to the train now!
 

83G/84D

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455 and another Yutong are manoeuvring around the bus station today ahead of its opening.
 

Envoy

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The new Cardiff Transport Interchange will be opening on 30 June 2024. I see that they have appointed a property agent to market the prominent unit facing the Central Station. Such a shame that they are not going to use this as a Tourist Information Centre - which this city so badly needs. Even Chepstow has a TIC.

I further note that yet again, the Information counter at Cardiff Central station was unmanned.
 

Dai Corner

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TfW have announced on their Facebook page that the facility will be open (without the buses) on 27, 28 and 29 June for anyone wishing to inspect it.

We're opening the doors to our new Cardiff Bus Interchange between 27-29 June.
Come and explore the new facilities before services start on 30 June

Mod note: quote required when referring to external sources
 
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markymark2000

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Cardiff Bus has confirmed which services will be serving the bus station and also announced a few changes to other services as a result of more space being freed up at current stops.


Service NumberCardiff Bus Interchange Departure Stand
13​
9​
25​
12​
32​
3​
61​
11​
62 and 62
14​
92, 93 and 94
6​
95​
5​
96​
8​
Something which isn't mentioned but could be confusing is that route 24 will start from Westgate Street, do the loop then terminate at Cardiff Bus Interchange. Route 25 will start at Cardiff Bus Interchange but will do the loop then terminate on Westgate Street

Because of the various services moving from Wood Street into the interchange, it has enabled the 17 and 18 to move their start/terminus from Westgate Street to Wood Street (though they will still serve Westgate Street on the way out of town but it will just be an intermediate stop). Good news for users of these services as it means that they will have better connections to the train station and also hopefully this will reduce the amount that Westgate Street is a dumping ground as the area really doesn't feel nice just having abandoned buses everywhere.


No announcements from anyone else about moving into the interchange meaning possibly only 8 stands will be occupied upon the proper opening. If so, this could be rather embarrassing for TFW.
 

SW Buses

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13 Apr 2022
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South Wales
Cardiff Bus has confirmed which services will be serving the bus station and also announced a few changes to other services as a result of more space being freed up at current stops.


Service NumberCardiff Bus Interchange Departure Stand
13​
9​
25​
12​
32​
3​
61​
11​
62 and 62
14​
92, 93 and 94
6​
95​
5​
96​
8​
Something which isn't mentioned but could be confusing is that route 24 will start from Westgate Street, do the loop then terminate at Cardiff Bus Interchange. Route 25 will start at Cardiff Bus Interchange but will do the loop then terminate on Westgate Street

Because of the various services moving from Wood Street into the interchange, it has enabled the 17 and 18 to move their start/terminus from Westgate Street to Wood Street (though they will still serve Westgate Street on the way out of town but it will just be an intermediate stop). Good news for users of these services as it means that they will have better connections to the train station and also hopefully this will reduce the amount that Westgate Street is a dumping ground as the area really doesn't feel nice just having abandoned buses everywhere.


No announcements from anyone else about moving into the interchange meaning possibly only 8 stands will be occupied upon the proper opening. If so, this could be rather embarrassing for TFW.
Or operator led pragmatic approach to ensure it works given the constraints of the entrances and exits
 

anthony263

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Are National Express, Megabus or Flixbus using the bus station?
Not enough room. Don't think National Express want to repeat what happened when we took a tri-axle coach Into the new bus station in Newport.

Transport for Wales was looking at building additional bus/coach stands on the Cardiff Bay side of Central Station
 
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dan5324

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8 Jun 2011
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307
Quite staggering how bus stations in this country are always built to the bare minimum size and make manoeuvring a larger bus extremely difficult, and some eg tri axles impossible! Can understand it if the facilities are old as vehicles of all kinds have massively increased in size over the years. Absolutely no excuse for modern facilities though.
 

route101

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11,272
Not enough room. Don't think National Express want to repeat what happened when we took a tri-axle coach Into the new bus station in Newport.

Transport for Wales was looking at building additional bus/coach stands on the Cardiff Bay side of Central Station
Hopefully NX get to use the bus station. Last year when I took the 509, the stop was just a regular bus stop on a road.
 

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