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Cardiff Central Possibilities

Topological

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Given the increased number of terminators at Cardiff and the problems with trains being stuck behind ones that cannot depart (as happened with the Portsmouth Harbour that was stuck behind the ultimately cancelled Holyhead)

=0=
-----
-----
=1=
=2=
-----
-----
-----
-----
=3=
=4=
-----

For reference I have made a stylised diagram which shows how the platforms work =x= is the platform, ----- are running lines. Platform 0 is short, but 1 to 4 are all long islands which easily take the 2 x 5 car 80x.

Could Cardiff Central have crossovers installed halfway along platforms 2 and 3 to enable trains to arrive and depart using the central lines? Would that sufficiently reduce the need for trains to go out to the sidings to terminate?

Probably all too expensive, but could it help?

The Wikipedia article has a nicer plan showing the layout about half way down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_Central_railway_station

A relevant section of the Wikipedia is included below:

Cardiff Central has eight platforms, numbered 0, 1a/b, 2a/b, 3a/b, 4a/b, 6a/b, 7a/b and 8. There is no longer, despite signage, a Platform 5; this was a west-facing bay platform situated between Platforms 3 and 4 which was removed in the 1960s.[36][37] Platform 0, a short through platform at the north of the station was created in 1999.[11][29]

The station has ten tracks running through it. All but two of the tracks have an adjacent platform, and the remaining two are through lines for goods trains and other non-stopping traffic.

Platforms 3 and 4 are divided into 'A' and 'B' sections and are capable of holding two local trains or a nine car Class 800 train. Other platforms can be used by more than one train, but are not all sectioned.

Platforms 6 to 8 at the south side of the station are used by Valley Lines trains between Cardiff Queen Street, the north of Cardiff, the Valleys, and the Vale of Glamorgan.

Platforms 0 to 4 are typically used by longer distance regional and national services operated by Transport for Wales Rail, Great Western Railway, and CrossCountry to destinations including London Paddington, Birmingham New Street, Bristol Temple Meads, Carmarthen, Derby, Nottingham, Gloucester, Manchester Piccadilly, Milford Haven, Taunton, Portsmouth Harbour, Swansea, Holyhead and Chester.
 
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Western 52

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I think it would help if more services worked through the station rather than terminated. Congestion there has certainly been worse recently and I've experienced some long waits outside the station due to lack of platform availability. Through services are also better for many passengers. I know Cardiff is a major destination, but there are many who travel through there too. Connections there can be long these days, especially when there's no real chance of them being held as they need to free up platforms as quickly as possible.
 

Anonymous10

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I think it would help if more services worked through the station rather than terminated. Congestion there has certainly been worse recently and I've experienced some long waits outside the station due to lack of platform availability. Through services are also better for many passengers. I know Cardiff is a major destination, but there are many who travel through there too. Connections there can be long these days, especially when there's no real chance of them being held as they need to free up platforms as quickly as possible.
You wonder if someone services could run to Bridgend/ Swansea heading east is more difficult where to terminate. But then even Swansea is limited in space with 4 platforms.
 

rf_ioliver

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You wonder if someone services could run to Bridgend/ Swansea heading east is more difficult where to terminate. But then even Swansea is limited in space with 4 platforms.

Would it be possible via the Vale of Glamorgan line giving extra services to Barry, Rhoose, Llantwit etc. Could Bridgend support an extra service every hour terminating there?

Maybe with the money freed up by HS2 the spur to the airport could be built and regional services stop there too...? ( /s )
 

anthony263

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Would it be possible via the Vale of Glamorgan line giving extra services to Barry, Rhoose, Llantwit etc. Could Bridgend support an extra service every hour terminating there?

Maybe with the money freed up by HS2 the spur to the airport could be built and regional services stop there too...? ( /s )
Certainly you could run more trains to Bridgend via the VOG. Dont forget you could run a service to west wales via the SDL
 

Anonymous10

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Certainly you could run more trains to Bridgend via the VOG. Dont forget you could run a service to west wales via the SDL
Indeed I don't think it would take too much work to open a 3rd platform at Carmarthen for example
 

anthony263

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Indeed I don't think it would take too much work to open a 3rd platform at Carmarthen for example
Could add a extra platform at Swansea for use by West Wales services. Terminating train s from Pembroke dock etc at Swansea take up capacity at Swansea
 

Anonymous10

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Could add a extra platform at Swansea for use by West Wales services. Terminating train s from Pembroke dock etc at Swansea take up capacity at Swansea
I believe there's a few electronic boxes in place amongst other structures at Swansea where you could place a platform, where as Carmarthen has a sidings so new buffers and removal of fence as platform is in place.
 

devon_belle

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I wonder if a full rebuild of Cardiff Central (Reading-style) would ever be on the cards. The devolved government seems to be pro-rail. For a capital city, the offering of Cardiff Central is fairly poor. I would expect more retail, better platforms and a much more capacious subway and concourse.

Your idea for splitting the platforms is good, in my opinion, and should be utilised where possible at other stations (see my thread on Exeter Central). I wonder if we shall ever see travelators to get people to the correct part of their platform...
 

Anonymous10

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I wonder if a full rebuild of Cardiff Central (Reading-style) would ever be on the cards. The devolved government seems to be pro-rail. For a capital city, the offering of Cardiff Central is fairly poor. I would expect more retail, better platforms and a much more capacious subway and concourse.

Your idea for splitting the platforms is good, in my opinion, and should be utilised where possible at other stations (see my thread on Exeter Central). I wonder if we shall ever see travelators to get people to the correct part of their platform...
I think a few extra shops would be ok but there's not much need given the station is only a 2 minute walk from a tesco and a greggs and 5 minutes from the city centre.
 

Neptune

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Your idea for splitting the platforms is good, in my opinion, and should be utilised where possible at other stations (see my thread on Exeter Central). I wonder if we shall ever see travelators to get people to the correct part of their platform...
See platforms 11&12 at Leeds for a similar idea. They are split in 2 and have a crossing from the through road to access them allowing extra flexibility. You get the bonus of them being at various times a long through platform or a pair of terminal platforms.
 

Caaardiff

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What would be better would be more through services on Mainline.
Off the top of my head there are terminating services from:
The East - Holyhead, Manchester (varying), Nottingham, Portsmouth, Penzance/Taunton. Along with the suggestion of Liverpool services being added.
The West - Milford Haven/Carmarthen (varying), Maesteg (The odd one that doesn't go through to Cheltenham)

My suggestion would be:

GWR Portsmouth or Southwest trains extend to Swansea - There is a desire to have a Swansea - Bristol Temple Meads direct link
TFW Milford Haven services continue to Cheltenham and go via the Vale of Glamorgan (Semi fast subject to pathing) for better links to Rhoose (Cardiff Airport).
TFW Manchester services that terminate Cardiff extend through to Swansea, so passengers from Milford Haven/West can connect at Swansea instead of the long journey via VOG.
TFW Maesteg links up to Ebbw Vale services.

The Milford Haven - Cheltenham would be the Swanline stopper. The hourly Manchester - Swansea/West Wales already has a path, so the only extra path required would be the Bristol/Southwest - Swansea service.

It would also be good to see a bay platform on the East end as well as an extension to P0, but the logistics of that would be a huge project.
 

Western 52

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Platform 5 was a bay at the east end, removed I think in the 1960s. Whilst it would be useful today if it was still there, it would mean the ends of platforms 3 and 4 being very narrow, so re-creating that platform is probably not an option.

The station is laid out as a through station, so I still think more through running would help capacity.
 

anthony263

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Platform 5 was a bay at the east end, removed I think in the 1960s. Whilst it would be useful today if it was still there, it would mean the ends of platforms 3 and 4 being very narrow, so re-creating that platform is probably not an option.

The station is laid out as a through station, so I still think more through running would help capacity.
Thats the problem. Its all the terminating services . Should look at extended more services to swansea or West wales
 

devon_belle

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Thats the problem. Its all the terminating services . Should look at extended more services to swansea or West wales
Does Swansea have plenty of spare capacity? I agree that extending many services to Swansea would make a lot of sense. Cardiff is a hub for the valley lines, it doesn't also need to be the hub for West Wales – that should be Swansea.
 

anthony263

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Ypu could build that parkway Station along the SDL and run at least 1tph that way.

Swansea issue is the terminating services from West Wales crossing the station throat or units trying to access the Hitachi depot. A new platform 0 accessed only off the west wales lines would help i think

Something needs to be done at Cardiff Central especially now tfw want to run even more trains. I suppose 1tph you could run by extending the proposed hourly swanline service to Bristol TM
 
Last edited:

Snow1964

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Seems Cardiff Central (or is it General) is getting extra platform

£50 million from the Levelling Up Fund has been provisionally allocated to Cardiff Council, in partnership with Transport for Wales, to improve public transport in the city. The funding will improve connectivity to and from the Cardiff Bay area.
From:Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities Published1 November 2023

Cardiff Crossrail improvements​

The funding will support the first phase of Cardiff Crossrail - which will run from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Bay Train Station.
Projects planned for funding as part of phase 1 include:
  • a new tramline to connect Cardiff Central to the Cardiff Bay Line
  • a new platform at Cardiff Central Station
  • new rolling stock
  • a new platform at Cardiff Bay Station
  • public realm improvements between Cardiff Central and Cardiff Bay

Benefits to the local area​

These projects will bring many benefits such as:
  • a more sustainable public transport network for Cardiff
  • additional employment opportunities
  • enhanced connectivity to the city centre
  • the creation of a vibrant place to live, work, invest and visit
The Cardiff Crossrail programme forms part of the wider South Wales Metro Project
Find out more about Levelling Up
Published 1 November 2023

 

Caaardiff

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Where on earth are they going to be able to put another platform?
I know there was talk of looking into extending P0 and putting a bridge in linking platforms but I struggle to see where a new platform would go without extensive works.
 

Western 52

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Isn't the new platform going somewhere behind platform 8 for the new link to the bay? Presumably at a lower level.
 

anthony263

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Where on earth are they going to be able to put another platform?
I know there was talk of looking into extending P0 and putting a bridge in linking platforms but I struggle to see where a new platform would go without extensive works.
It be down in the car park
 

td97

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There are no plans for a new platform. Platform 0 is to be extended, by an as-yet undetermined length.
 

td97

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Sorry but the source was a government article, is there s source for this information?
The Network North wishlist article was also a government post... (which of course turned out to contain lots of nonsense)
 

Anonymous10

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The Network North wishlist article was also a government post... (which of course turned out to contain lots of nonsense)
That's true however hopefully given cardiff is increasingly a hub for travel it'll get the upgrade work it needs.
 

Signal_Box

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The main reason Cardiff Central doesn’t flow as well as it is could because signallers allow automatic route setting to operate the workstation only manually intervening when it’s ultimately to late to make a difference.

Watch open time trains for a few hours and see how sun optimal the majority of trains are routed, until you knock out the culture of allowing the computer to do the job you won’t make any real difference.
 

daodao

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Splitting half the Manchester-West Wales services at Cardiff Central with recent timetable changes has increased congestion there unnecessarily. It would be better to revert to standard class only dmu operation of all these services and run them all as through trains not terminating at Cardiff [other than at the start and end of the operating day].
 

Rhydgaled

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I wonder if a full rebuild of Cardiff Central (Reading-style) would ever be on the cards. The devolved government seems to be pro-rail. For a capital city, the offering of Cardiff Central is fairly poor. I would expect more retail, better platforms and a much more capacious subway and concourse.
There have been a few proposals for a major redevelopment of Cardiff Central over the last decade or so - at least one of those had all the platform buildings and canopies swept away presumably along the lines of the Reading 'transfer deck' footbridge. Personally, I think all of those redevelopment proposals were horrific acts of brazen vandalism. If Network Rail think they can do that sort of thing to a Grade II listed building then what is the point of having Grade II listing?

I think it is important to note that the reason for listing Cardiff Central was its completeness - the big picture with the platform structures, the main booking hall building on the north side and the main passenger subway (the one with stairs up to the platforms) all work together to provide an extensive example of a big-4-era city centre main station. Take platform 8 and the OHLE away and it could almost be on a heritage railway. Demolish any part of those three main features and you lose the special cohesiveness that the listing was intended to protect.

Unfortunately Network Rail seems to want to make platform 0 the main platform for eastbound fast passenger services, which means extending it to accomodate a pair of class 800s (which I think are around 260m). As far as I can tell from Google Earth, there appears to be space to extend it to around 200m before you have to demolish most of the main booking hall building on the north side (probably including the clock tower on top, which appeared to be gone in at least one set of redevelopment proposals). There is, I suggest, little point in getting a 260m platform zero at Cardiff Central. Either you make a mockery of the listing by resorting to extensive demolition or you would have to move almost the entire station to an open air museum such as the St Fagans National Museum of History*. Either way, you would no longer be constrained by the tiles in the subway and could renumber the platforms at the new Cardiff Central to your heart's content.

* yes, I expect moving the vast majority of a major station is a much bigger challange than anything else that has ever been moved in such a way though, and thus is likely to be impractical.

The only alternative I can see is to talk Network Rail into dropping their plans to move the stoppers onto the present releif lines and instead move fast services onto the releifs (which I guess they would share with freight, due to the terminals being on the south side) - probably as far as Maindee triangle, Newport, where the Marches line joins the GWML. The platforms at the new stations at Cardiff Parkway, Newport West etc. would then have to be built on the current Up Main and Down Main (which I guess would then become the Up Metro and Down Metro). This would mean platform 0 no longer having to accomodate class 800/802 units**. The question is; would you get away with a 200 metre platform 0 for the local services? For much of the year it'd probably be fine, but what about a 12-car class 387 lashup after a major event at the Principality Stadium?

** except during disruption when, with selective door operation and appropriate postioning of signals and 'IET STOP' boards, you would probably wouldn't have to lock out many doors on a 9-car set anyway.

What would be better would be more through services on Mainline.
Off the top of my head there are terminating services from:
The East - Holyhead, Manchester (varying), Nottingham, Portsmouth, Penzance/Taunton. Along with the suggestion of Liverpool services being added.
The West - Milford Haven/Carmarthen (varying), Maesteg (The odd one that doesn't go through to Cheltenham)

My suggestion would be:

GWR Portsmouth or Southwest trains extend to Swansea - There is a desire to have a Swansea - Bristol Temple Meads direct link
TFW Milford Haven services continue to Cheltenham and go via the Vale of Glamorgan (Semi fast subject to pathing) for better links to Rhoose (Cardiff Airport).
TFW Manchester services that terminate Cardiff extend through to Swansea, so passengers from Milford Haven/West can connect at Swansea instead of the long journey via VOG.
TFW Maesteg links up to Ebbw Vale services.

The Milford Haven - Cheltenham would be the Swanline stopper. The hourly Manchester - Swansea/West Wales already has a path, so the only extra path required would be the Bristol/Southwest - Swansea service.

It would also be good to see a bay platform on the East end as well as an extension to P0, but the logistics of that would be a huge project.
Unfortunately the GWML drops to two tracks west of Cardiff, without the benefit of the relief lines further east, so you run into a 'mixed traffic railway' problem with fast, stopping and freight services tripping each other up. (This is actually an issue further east as well, due in part to the heritage value of the station buildings at Cardiff Central as described above. My 'gut feeling' is that fast trains want their own dedicated pair of tracks and stoppers and freights could share, but Ebbw Vale and Hereford (where some of the stoppers (may in future) branch off are on the north side and the freight terminals on the south. So is it actually better for freights and fast passenger trains to share the southern tracks and stoppers to have the nothern pair to themselves?) The line between Cardiff and Bridgend can't take much more without flighting of fast and slow services (or some form of overtaking provision), whereas what you'd want heading west out of Cardiff*** is something more like this:
  • a fast service to Swansea (calling only at Bridgend, Port Talbot and Neath) either every 30 minutes or every 20 minutes
  • a train calling at Pyle every 30 minutes, at least one being all-stations to Swansea (including Pontyclun etc.) - the other could be:
    1. a second all-stations to Swansea,
    2. an all-stations to Ammanford (or beyond) via the Swansea District Line with Swansea Metro stations
    3. an all-stations via the Swansea District as above, but to Llanelli instead of Ammanford or
    4. a semi-fast calling only at Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot and Neath
  • a train calling at all-stations between Cardiff and Bridgend every 30, 20 or 15 minutes
    • at least one of these per hour would run to Maesteg and another would be the above Swansea stopper
  • an hourly path reserved for a future express service to Carmarthen/Milford Haven / Fishguard Harbour if/when TfW has some rolling stock available that is optimised for such use (before anyone says otherwise, 197s are not optimised rolling stock for any 'express' or 'fast' service)
*** ignorning freight, as I've no idea how much there is

I fear the only way to increase both fast and stopping services between Cardiff and Bridgend is to either provide some 4-tracking or allow the stoppers to be looped at one of the stations for fasts to overtake. I don't think the current layout at Pencoed, Llanharan or Pontyclun would make this easy, so possibly any progress with frequency enhancements on this stretch will have to wait until Miskin station is delivered (and please make sure that is built with platform loops).

Splitting half the Manchester-West Wales services at Cardiff Central with recent timetable changes has increased congestion there unnecessarily. It would be better to revert to standard class only dmu operation of all these services and run them all as through trains not terminating at Cardiff [other than at the start and end of the operating day].
First class and LHCS has nothing to do with it, it's the terminating of services that used to run through that's the problem. When mark 4s to Manchester were first announced it sounded like they would all run through to Swansea (meaning the LHCS would have only been every three hours instead of every two hours) which would have been fine. If mark 4s to Manchester hadn't been a side-effect of COVID but were planned at the time of franchise renewal, TfW could have taken more sets (quite a few have been scrapped) and run LHCS through between Manchester and Swansea every two hours, maybe even hourly. Another alternative might be to terminate all the Manchesters at Cardiff and have GWR run Swansea-Paddington every 30 minutes all day instead.

Something needs to be done at Cardiff Central especially now tfw want to run even more trains. I suppose 1tph you could run by extending the proposed hourly swanline service to Bristol TM
That option 4 above for the 2nd Pyle stop each hour is a hangover from my old idea for reconfiguring some of the GWR services around Bristol. The old Cardiff-Taunton would have become a Gloucester-Taunton stopper using class 166/165 units (since it runs via Weston-Super-Mare, other services would be much faster to Taunton) and TfW would pick up the Bristol-Cardiff leg which would then extend to Swansea as that semi-fast through Pyle. Cardiff-Portsmouth I would leave largely as it is (assuming it is still hourly and hasn't suffered from the DfT cuts), but switch the stock for 175s (in 5-car formations) and maybe drop some stops onto MetroWest stoppers.

Platform 5 was a bay at the east end, removed I think in the 1960s. Whilst it would be useful today if it was still there, it would mean the ends of platforms 3 and 4 being very narrow, so re-creating that platform is probably not an option.

The station is laid out as a through station, so I still think more through running would help capacity.
Why was the bay numbered platform 5 (and was it at the east or west end - I thought I'd seen some suggestions to reinstate it for services to Carmarthen)? I would have thought the current platform 4 would originally have been 5 with the bay being 4 instead. Also, with the heavy industry in retreat (and coal almost gone) are two through roads still needed? If not then, as much as I'd rather keep the heritage structures on the majority of the station, if we are to have a massive rebuild perhaps it should go down to one bi-directional through road with the platform 3/4 island being widened to take 4 new bays (2 at each end, like a double-ended version of the main island at Shrewsbury):

===0b===========0a===
===1a===========1b===

===2b===========2a===
=====through road=======
===3a===========3b===

===bay===| |===bay===
===bay===| |===bay===

===4b===========4a===

Isn't the new platform going somewhere behind platform 8 for the new link to the bay? Presumably at a lower level.
The tram-train platform for the bay, yes. Personally I think there should also be one or two tram platforms (or passive provision for them) down there on Penarth Road behind platform 8, at roughly 90 degress to the mainline platforms above. This would be for a future tram extension along Penarth Road, under the main station's eastern throat tracks and on-street at least to the Castle and hopefully right through to Heath Low Level (and thence the Coryton line - there's not enough capacity on the existing lines through Queen Street to deliver a Metro frequency on the Coryton line).
 

Anonymous10

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There have been a few proposals for a major redevelopment of Cardiff Central over the last decade or so - at least one of those had all the platform buildings and canopies swept away presumably along the lines of the Reading 'transfer deck' footbridge. Personally, I think all of those redevelopment proposals were horrific acts of brazen vandalism. If Network Rail think they can do that sort of thing to a Grade II listed building then what is the point of having Grade II listing?

I think it is important to note that the reason for listing Cardiff Central was its completeness - the big picture with the platform structures, the main booking hall building on the north side and the main passenger subway (the one with stairs up to the platforms) all work together to provide an extensive example of a big-4-era city centre main station. Take platform 8 and the OHLE away and it could almost be on a heritage railway. Demolish any part of those three main features and you lose the special cohesiveness that the listing was intended to protect.

Unfortunately Network Rail seems to want to make platform 0 the main platform for eastbound fast passenger services, which means extending it to accomodate a pair of class 800s (which I think are around 260m). As far as I can tell from Google Earth, there appears to be space to extend it to around 200m before you have to demolish most of the main booking hall building on the north side (probably including the clock tower on top, which appeared to be gone in at least one set of redevelopment proposals). There is, I suggest, little point in getting a 260m platform zero at Cardiff Central. Either you make a mockery of the listing by resorting to extensive demolition or you would have to move almost the entire station to an open air museum such as the St Fagans National Museum of History*. Either way, you would no longer be constrained by the tiles in the subway and could renumber the platforms at the new Cardiff Central to your heart's content.

* yes, I expect moving the vast majority of a major station is a much bigger challange than anything else that has ever been moved in such a way though, and thus is likely to be impractical.

The only alternative I can see is to talk Network Rail into dropping their plans to move the stoppers onto the present releif lines and instead move fast services onto the releifs (which I guess they would share with freight, due to the terminals being on the south side) - probably as far as Maindee triangle, Newport, where the Marches line joins the GWML. The platforms at the new stations at Cardiff Parkway, Newport West etc. would then have to be built on the current Up Main and Down Main (which I guess would then become the Up Metro and Down Metro). This would mean platform 0 no longer having to accomodate class 800/802 units**. The question is; would you get away with a 200 metre platform 0 for the local services? For much of the year it'd probably be fine, but what about a 12-car class 387 lashup after a major event at the Principality Stadium?

** except during disruption when, with selective door operation and appropriate postioning of signals and 'IET STOP' boards, you would probably wouldn't have to lock out many doors on a 9-car set anyway.


Unfortunately the GWML drops to two tracks west of Cardiff, without the benefit of the relief lines further east, so you run into a 'mixed traffic railway' problem with fast, stopping and freight services tripping each other up. (This is actually an issue further east as well, due in part to the heritage value of the station buildings at Cardiff Central as described above. My 'gut feeling' is that fast trains want their own dedicated pair of tracks and stoppers and freights could share, but Ebbw Vale and Hereford (where some of the stoppers (may in future) branch off are on the north side and the freight terminals on the south. So is it actually better for freights and fast passenger trains to share the southern tracks and stoppers to have the nothern pair to themselves?) The line between Cardiff and Bridgend can't take much more without flighting of fast and slow services (or some form of overtaking provision), whereas what you'd want heading west out of Cardiff*** is something more like this:
  • a fast service to Swansea (calling only at Bridgend, Port Talbot and Neath) either every 30 minutes or every 20 minutes
  • a train calling at Pyle every 30 minutes, at least one being all-stations to Swansea (including Pontyclun etc.) - the other could be:
    1. a second all-stations to Swansea,
    2. an all-stations to Ammanford (or beyond) via the Swansea District Line with Swansea Metro stations
    3. an all-stations via the Swansea District as above, but to Llanelli instead of Ammanford or
    4. a semi-fast calling only at Bridgend, Pyle, Port Talbot and Neath
  • a train calling at all-stations between Cardiff and Bridgend every 30, 20 or 15 minutes
    • at least one of these per hour would run to Maesteg and another would be the above Swansea stopper
  • an hourly path reserved for a future express service to Carmarthen/Milford Haven / Fishguard Harbour if/when TfW has some rolling stock available that is optimised for such use (before anyone says otherwise, 197s are not optimised rolling stock for any 'express' or 'fast' service)
*** ignorning freight, as I've no idea how much there is

I fear the only way to increase both fast and stopping services between Cardiff and Bridgend is to either provide some 4-tracking or allow the stoppers to be looped at one of the stations for fasts to overtake. I don't think the current layout at Pencoed, Llanharan or Pontyclun would make this easy, so possibly any progress with frequency enhancements on this stretch will have to wait until Miskin station is delivered (and please make sure that is built with platform loops).

First class and LHCS has nothing to do with it, it's the terminating of services that used to run through that's the problem. When mark 4s to Manchester were first announced it sounded like they would all run through to Swansea (meaning the LHCS would have only been every three hours instead of every two hours) which would have been fine. If mark 4s to Manchester hadn't been a side-effect of COVID but were planned at the time of franchise renewal, TfW could have taken more sets (quite a few have been scrapped) and run LHCS through between Manchester and Swansea every two hours, maybe even hourly. Another alternative might be to terminate all the Manchesters at Cardiff and have GWR run Swansea-Paddington every 30 minutes all day instead.

That option 4 above for the 2nd Pyle stop each hour is a hangover from my old idea for reconfiguring some of the GWR services around Bristol. The old Cardiff-Taunton would have become a Gloucester-Taunton stopper using class 166/165 units (since it runs via Weston-Super-Mare, other services would be much faster to Taunton) and TfW would pick up the Bristol-Cardiff leg which would then extend to Swansea as that semi-fast through Pyle. Cardiff-Portsmouth I would leave largely as it is (assuming it is still hourly and hasn't suffered from the DfT cuts), but switch the stock for 175s (in 5-car formations) and maybe drop some stops onto MetroWest stoppers.

Why was the bay numbered platform 5 (and was it at the east or west end - I thought I'd seen some suggestions to reinstate it for services to Carmarthen)? I would have thought the current platform 4 would originally have been 5 with the bay being 4 instead. Also, with the heavy industry in retreat (and coal almost gone) are two through roads still needed? If not then, as much as I'd rather keep the heritage structures on the majority of the station, if we are to have a massive rebuild perhaps it should go down to one bi-directional through road with the platform 3/4 island being widened to take 4 new bays (2 at each end, like a double-ended version of the main island at Shrewsbury):

===0b===========0a===
===1a===========1b===

===2b===========2a===
=====through road=======
===3a===========3b===

===bay===| |===bay===
===bay===| |===bay===

===4b===========4a===

The tram-train platform for the bay, yes. Personally I think there should also be one or two tram platforms (or passive provision for them) down there on Penarth Road behind platform 8, at roughly 90 degress to the mainline platforms above. This would be for a future tram extension along Penarth Road, under the main station's eastern throat tracks and on-street at least to the Castle and hopefully right through to Heath Low Level (and thence the Coryton line - there's not enough capacity on the existing lines through Queen Street to deliver a Metro frequency on the Coryton line).
Re cardiff Central, personally it also looks damn good on a bright sunny day too and any redevelopment should incorporate as many original aspects as possible given its listed status, and be sympathetic to the building to maintain its look.
 

daodao

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First class and LHCS has nothing to do with it, it's the terminating of services that used to run through that's the problem.
I disagree. It is the direct consequence of TfW's mistaken decision to acquire a limited number of locomotive-hauled carriage sets and wanting to use them on the main part of the Marches line from Cardiff to Manchester, but not west of Cardiff. The issue of splitting services at Cardiff would not have occurred if the trains used on the West Wales and Marches lines were of the same type.
 

Rhydgaled

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4,568
The issue of splitting services at Cardiff would not have occurred if the trains used on the West Wales and Marches lines were of the same type.
True, but if that 'same type' was LHCS with first class it would still not have occurred. The issue is having too small a subfleet so it could only run Swansea-Manchester at a reduced frequency and someone, somewhere, unfortunately decided that providing a high-quality service every two hours between Cardiff and Manchester was more important than between Swansea and Manchester every three hours. More mark 4 sets, allowing the first class service to run through to Swansea at least every two hours (prefrably enough to run it hourly), would have resolved the issue.

Re cardiff Central, personally it also looks damn good on a bright sunny day too and any redevelopment should incorporate as many original aspects as possible given its listed status, and be sympathetic to the building to maintain its look.
So, the big question is - is there a way to make the GWML fit for the future without extending platform 0?
 

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