Carlisle - Newcastle services

[bramling]

Never heard of "Retail Therapy"? It's not for me but....

I can't think of anything worse than going to a crowded indoor shopping centre on a speculative basis, then having to carry bags of stuff home for 1 or 2 hours on a crowded Pacer.

Perhaps I'm fortunate that I have ready access to London where I can usually get most items I want with minimum hassle, quite often during working hours as a bonus.

No doubt in a few weeks time as Christmas approaches we'll be reading moanson here about overcrowding on trains serving shopping complexes (quite probably including Metrocentre), and how the railway should re-write its timetables and diagrams to cater for these people.

I maintain that there's far more rewarding ways to spend a day than in some rotten shopping complex, with hours on a crowded Pacer to get there and back.

 

[DarloRich]

It amazes me how people will sit on a train for over an hour just to visit Metrocentre, and then leave with nothing more than Primark bags. I've never been, but what's *so* special about Metrocentre that seemingly most of the north-east and north-west wants to go there at weekends and in school holidays? It's not like there's a shortage of interesting day out opportunities in the area.

I can't think of anything worse than going to a crowded indoor shopping centre on a speculative basis, then having to carry bags of stuff home for 1 or 2 hours on a crowded Pacer.

Perhaps I'm fortunate that I have ready access to London where I can usually get most items I want with minimum hassle, quite often during working hours as a bonus.

No doubt in a few weeks time as Christmas approaches we'll be reading moanson here about overcrowding on trains serving shopping complexes (quite probably including Metrocentre), and how the railway should re-write its timetables and diagrams to cater for these people.

I maintain that there's far more rewarding ways to spend a day than in some rotten shopping complex, with hours on a crowded Pacer to get there and back.

So you have never been and criticise the people who do like to go shopping there? :roll: Are there any other sections of society the railway should refuse to cater for? It might shock you to learn that people are different to you and like different things!

One of the reasons many people will take the train to the metrocentre is the traffic congestion getting there. The A1 western bypass is notoriously congested ( and was one of the worst traffic blackspots in the country) so the train becomes an attractive travel option. This may reduce when the improvement works on the A1 are complete.

 

[Senex]

So you have never been and criticise the people who do like to go shopping there? :roll: Are there any other sections of society the railway should refuse to cater for? It might shock you to learn that people are different to you and like different things!

One of the reasons many people will take the train to the metrocentre is the traffic congestion getting there. The A1 western bypass is notoriously congested ( and was one of the worst traffic blackspots in the country) so the train becomes an attractive travel option. This may reduce when the improvement works on the A1 are complete.

I think bramling may be drawing attention to a very basic split amongst us, between those who love shopping for its own sake and thoroughly enjoy even just browsing and buying very little, and those who see shopping as one of the most wretched of all human activities, an evel necessity to be got over as quickly and simply as possible. It is clear that there are huge numbers of people who really love the experience of visiting these massive shopping-centres and they cannot all be wrong, whatever those of us who are the shopping-haters may think.
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Sorry -- not "evel" but "evil".

 

[bramling]

So you have never been and criticise the people who do like to go shopping there? :roll: Are there any other sections of society the railway should refuse to cater for? It might shock you to learn that people are different to you and like different things!

One of the reasons many people will take the train to the metrocentre is the traffic congestion getting there. The A1 western bypass is notoriously congested ( and was one of the worst traffic blackspots in the country) so the train becomes an attractive travel option. This may reduce when the improvement works on the A1 are complete.

What I object to is people all converging on something for a one-off trip, like at Christmas time, and expect extra capacity to be there ready and waiting.

By all means like different things, but there are better things to do in the world than visit an under-cover shopping complex, especially with hours on a crowded pacer either side.

 

[sprinterguy]

That appears to be what it will be. The Metrocentre shuttle is specified on Saturdays.

Ah, fair enough. For the passenger numbers, that should be alright then.
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Isn't there a disused one near the A1 Tyne Crossing or is that too far west?

Too far west, and there's been some redevelopment at the south end of the bridge, essentially under the A1, which would preclude or at least hamper installation of the required "U" bend.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Could the Metrocentre not be reached by an extension to the T&W Metro, perhaps using (for part of its route) the line on the north side of the Tyne that was abandoned in the 70s(?)

The Scotswood line has been built over by the Newcastle Business Park and part of the Scotswood Road widening scheme.

Isn't there a disused one near the A1 Tyne Crossing or is that too far west?

The Scotswood rail bridge is still there as it carries water and gas pipework across the river, but it would require a huge amount of work to make it safe to put trains across it. The access to it has also been built on at the northern end.

For trains, it is effectively derelict; it isn't even safe to walk across it. It's also about a mile or so west of the MetroCentre, beyond Derwenthaugh where the MetroCentre shuttles currently reverse.

What I object to is people all converging on something for a one-off trip, like at Christmas time, and expect extra capacity to be there ready and waiting.

The fact that the MetroCentre (and other big shopping centres) will be busy at Christmas should not be a surprise to Northern Rail, and they should allocate their stock appropriately. Of course we know they don't- look at the shambles they make of the Lincoln Christmas Market each and every year- but that's not the same thing at all.

The bus companies put extra buses on to the MetroCentre. And it's the buses that make the MetroCentre shuttles such a waste of time; nearly everyone using public transport will take the X66 or the 100.

I find the MetroCentre hellish at the best of times, but sadly needs must. And I actually quite enjoy a mooch around the shops.

 

[Darandio]

What I object to is people all converging on something for a one-off trip, like at Christmas time

What exactly do you expect them to do?

 

[backontrack]

However, I'm not sure that all services that pass through Metrocentre (as well as diversions) call there. I'll check the timetable.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They do now. The early morning Newcastle-Glasgow train used to miss MetroCentre out, but it doesn't any more.

 

[backontrack]

Strangely enough, they all do. I'm sure there used to be a Scotrail service that was all stops except Metrocentre - however they may have withdrawn it. (Thanks Arctic Troll for pointing this out before backontrack could - Ed).

Another thing that always surprised me was the fact that Corbridge doesn't have a very high frequency - I expected it to have the same as Prudhoe. It has a population of 3,672 and is also a visitor attraction. Its station usage is about the same as Haltwhistle. Although Wylam has more station usage, it's primarily a commuter station, so it doesn't need trains to Carlisle. However, these would - arguably - be useful to Corbridge. I wonder if an extra, alternating stop could be added to the expresses, calling at either Haltwhistle or Corbridge. I'd be surprised if usage doesn't increase.

Then again, maybe it shouldn't stop there. I don't know.

 

[glbotu]

The bus companies put extra buses on to the MetroCentre. And it's the buses that make the MetroCentre shuttles such a waste of time; nearly everyone using public transport will take the X66 or the 100.

Are the Buses quicker? A return on the train is about £3.00, so are the buses notably cheaper than that? (I live in Durham and have a Durham - Newcastle season ticket, so I always get the train). 4tph frequency seems pretty well spread out.

Were the Metrocentre shuttles part of the last Northern ITT or Does Northern get money from Intu or something to run it? It's definitely above what's required (I went on a Saturday morning and it seemed pretty empty). It's definitely more than getting the Morpeth stoppers out of the way, because 1tph is dedicated Newcastle - Metrocentre.

Would there be any scope for running an additional tph from Middlesbrough - Sunderland to connect with the Metro?

 

[Jonny]

Isn't there a disused one near the A1 Tyne Crossing or is that too far west?

The Tyne crossing is quite a way west, almost to Blaydon so it would be awkward at best. On the other hand, there are no bridges over the Tyne for several miles (from the Chain Bridge to the (New) Redheugh Bridge so a new bridge by the Metrocentre would be relatively easy to justify.

 

[DarloRich]

The Tyne crossing is quite a way west, almost to Blaydon so it would be awkward at best. On the other hand, there are no bridges over the Tyne for several miles (from the Chain Bridge to the (New) Redheugh Bridge so a new bridge by the Metrocentre would be relatively easy to justify.

are you sure?

What I object to is people all converging on something for a one-off trip, like at Christmas time, and expect extra capacity to be there ready and waiting.

But surely that is precisely the time we SHOULD encourage people off the roads?

By all means like different things, but there are better things to do in the world than visit an under-cover shopping complex, especially with hours on a crowded pacer either side.

in your opinion. For the people who do that it may be the highlight of their week.

 

[bradders1983]

"All those football fans going to watch Man U, how dare Northern put on trains for them"

:roll::roll:

 

[jonty14]

It amazes me how people will sit on a train for over an hour just to visit Metrocentre, and then leave with nothing more than Primark bags. I've never been, but what's *so* special about Metrocentre that seemingly most of the north-east and north-west wants to go there at weekends and in school holidays? It's not like there's a shortage of interesting day out opportunities in the area.

There is a lego shop

 

[najaB]

There is a lego shop

If they have sets out to play with evaluate, them I'm in!

 

[SeanG]

The Metro Centre is a horrific place, full of shopping and under no circumstances would I recommend being conned into going.

However driving there is shockingly bad, as is parking so I think Metrocentre shuttles should be a priority, especially given the number of teenage girls that use them on a weekend who obviously cannot drive

 

[backontrack]

Does anyone think that there's any benefit of making some services skip Metrocentre?

I personally think it might be helpful at some points during the day, but remember that Metrocentre sees commuters too - people commute to it. But I still can't see people deciding to come from far-off Kirkconnel and Sanquhar just for Metrocentre.

 

[northern156]

I see all the moaning about Pacers. Typically the Newcastle - Carlisle runs are 60% 156 and 40% 142 (if not more 156). They really aren't that bad; especially not to not go somewhere in case you do get one.

2tph sounds really promising - however what we need is newer stock (perhaps another operator for competition) and, in an ideal world, linespeed upgrades. 75mph vice 65 would be a great start, even better would be 90-100mph.

 

[cuccir]

I've used the line a few times a year as part of a longer journey, and I think I'd echo most of the comments on here. 2tph Carlisle-Newcastle is pretty good going. It's a busy enough line but rarely, Metrocentre or Newcastle Utd home games aside, overcrowded. The TVMs on the line are rubbish mind.

If there are paths available down the WCML, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of having a few through journeys to the North-West. 2 or 3 Newcastle-Preston services a day, for example, might encourage both business and leisure travel, and potentially might take a bit of pressure off the core TPE route. I'm not saying that this should be some sort of strategic priority, but I can see how it would meet some existing demand and encourage use.

Does anyone think that there's any benefit of making some services skip Metrocentre? I personally think it might be helpful at some points during the day, but remember that Metrocentre sees commuters too - people commute to it. But I still can't see people deciding to come from far-off Kirkconnel and Sanquhar just for Metrocentre.

You'd be surprised! As a kid I remember being driven to the Metrocentre from Barrow-in-Furness. There's vast swathes of Northern England and Southern Scotland for whom the Metrocentre will be the nearest branch of various shops (including the dreaded Ikea) even if it is a two hour journey, and whilst busy it may still appeal over the (perceived!) busyness and stress of driving or travelling into Manchester/Glasgow/Newcastle/Leeds.

 

[Anvil1984]

Does anyone think that there's any benefit of making some services skip Metrocentre?

I personally think it might be helpful at some points during the day, but remember that Metrocentre sees commuters too - people commute to it. But I still can't see people deciding to come from far-off Kirkconnel and Sanquhar just for Metrocentre.

That's odd as on the train I'm working has 2 families from Dumfries travelling to the Metrocentre. It's all well and good trying to make plans off statistics and population figures but in the actual world things are different.

No there's no point to skipping Metrocentre it is used as a stop for the shopping centre and as a rail head for those who live in west Gateshead. The service which used to miss out Metrocentre had 7 people board there which isn't bad at a time the shops aren't open

 

[Tetchytyke]

Are the Buses quicker? A return on the train is about £3.00, so are the buses notably cheaper than that? (I live in Durham and have a Durham - Newcastle season ticket, so I always get the train). 4tph frequency seems pretty well spread out.

It depends where you're coming from. If you're on the Metro the quickest transfer is at Gateshead to the X66. If you already have a bus ticket, as many people using buses will do, then it makes sense to take the bus. The buses are slightly more expensive- a Go-Ahead day ticket Newcastle-Metrocentre is £3.50, Stagecoach is £3.90- but that obviously has greater validity than just a return ticket.

Does anyone think that there's any benefit of making some services skip Metrocentre?

The MetroCentre is an important transport hub these days, nearly all the buses from West Gateshead call there, even beyond its importance as a leisure destination. The railway station is important as part of that.

 

[Ianigsy]

Ball dropped this morning, by the looks of things- Northern's Twitter feed was reporting the first train from Carlisle as cancelled due to a train fault, however this was the only one able to provide a connection to Sunderland in time for kick off in the Wear-Tyne derby... probably a busy morning for any cab firms in the Tyne Valley!

Northern were also advertising an additional service from Newcastle to St Peter's however in the circumstances it's a shame they couldn't have found the resources to start it back from Hexham to relieve the worst of the problem.

 

[darloscott]

Ball dropped this morning, by the looks of things- Northern's Twitter feed was reporting the first train from Carlisle as cancelled due to a train fault, however this was the only one able to provide a connection to Sunderland in time for kick off in the Wear-Tyne derby... probably a busy morning for any cab firms in the Tyne Valley!

Northern were also advertising an additional service from Newcastle to St Peter's however in the circumstances it's a shame they couldn't have found the resources to start it back from Hexham to relieve the worst of the problem.

The second (first on the day!) service was formed of a 158+156 apparently... The 156 presumably being the cancelled unit from the first service

 

[PHILIPE]

2N07 12 10 Newcastle to Carlisle today 158793

 

[Tommy1581]

Are the Buses quicker? A return on the train is about £3.00, so are the buses notably cheaper than that? (I live in Durham and have a Durham - Newcastle season ticket, so I always get the train). 4tph frequency seems pretty well spread out.

Buses are reasonably fast connecting the city centre areas with MetroCentre, they are also *very* frequent, on average every 2-4 minutes (on GNE). The train is faster if you're travelling to Central Station then changing onto Metro or another rail service, as the bus stop closest to Central Station is a couple of streets away if travelling from MetroCentre.

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

The 0628 from Carlisle to Newcastle on Mon was also a 158, was nice to have relative luxury compared to the usual 142!!!

Noticed the Carlisle to Settle was shut for Engineering Works on Sun and Mon, guessing the 158 was utilised on the Tyne Valley so that it wasn't parked up in the way at Carlisle Station?

 

[Wolf]

The 0628 from Carlisle to Newcastle on Mon was also a 158, was nice to have relative luxury compared to the usual 142!!!

Noticed the Carlisle to Settle was shut for Engineering Works on Sun and Mon, guessing the 158 was utilised on the Tyne Valley so that it wasn't parked up in the way at Carlisle Station?

That's surprising I didn't think 158s went anywhere near the North East , assumed Newcastle crews didn't sign them.

 

[ainsworth74]

That's surprising I didn't think 158s went anywhere near the North East , assumed Newcastle crews didn't sign them.

Well they do end up at Heaton for attention at the wheel lathe from time to time so I suspect that there might be a link of drivers/guards that sign them at Newcastle. Plus isn't there a crew depot at Carlisle? In which case it could be a Carlisle crew taking them through to Newcastle.

 

[bigbazh]

It will be interesting to see what will happen if the Blyth and Tyne ever gets reopened to passenger trains. I saw the suggestion that there would be two trains per hour to the Metro Center from Ashington and Blyth.