Cheapest Advance tickets for Avanti WC: EUS-LIV

[DanielDeronda]

I travel regularly from Reading to Liverpool, usually on a Saturday or Sunday.

Normally I'd get a XC service to Birmingham New St then a WM service to Liverpool.

But on Sundays, I need to get to Liverpool late in the morning or latest around midday.

I am looking at Avanti WC which I haven't booked for ages. The advance tickets for the day I want to travel are released soon.

So I just wanted to know at what price do Advance tickets start at (with disabled persons Railcard) when new tickets are released for EUS-LIV?

I pay around £51 for a day return from Reading to Liverpool via XC & WMR. Don't want to pay too much of a premium to use Avanti.

I'd be looking to pay around £33 for 2 singles from EUS-LIV.

 

[Watershed]

There isn't really a fixed price at which Advance tickets start for intercity TOCs like Avanti. They will release Advances at varying prices depending on the demand they anticipate for individual trains and days, which will be influenced by factors such as any events or sports fixtures that are happening, and whether it's half term or the school holidays.

If you want to guarantee a low price for that journey, but need to be able to plan a specific departure/arrival time in advance, the only realistic way to do so is to use WMT via London. Their Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets are very cheap and thus cap the amount that they can charge for Advance tickets.

If you can be somewhat flexible with your travel plans, you could consider buying an Avanti Superfare. This is a ticket available for a fixed price of £15 from London to Liverpool (no Railcard discount unfortunately), which you buy between 7 and 21 days before departure. You choose a timeslot (morning, afternoon or evening) during which you'd like to travel, and then the day before you travel, you are given what is effectively an Advance ticket for a specific train which departs within that timeslot. Note, however, that unlike a normal Advance ticket, you can't pay the difference to change a Superfare to a different train if you don't like the train you've been booked onto.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Sunday is now one of the busiest days for travel, especially long distance.

Except at the very extremes of the day, you'd be looking to pay between £25 and £30 minimum up to about £60 each with a Railcard discount, unless you get one of the Superfares mentioned above, where you don't get (much of) a choice as to what time you travel.

You are very unlikely to get 2 x singles for £33 total even with a Railcard unless you travel on West Midlands Trains instead.

 

[Alex-B]

A couple of options.

1. If you sign up to Club Avanti and then use the same email address to register for ticket alerts you may get early access to Advance tickets through Avanti's website before they go on general sale: https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/tickets-and-savings/ways-to-save/ticket-alerts
2. Avanti Superfare will give you a silly cheap ticket, but you can only choose morning, afternoon or evening, and not all slots will be available; it depends on demand. https://www.avantisuperfare.co.uk

Avanti routes tend to be generally quite pricey.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Would it be fair to say that the very cheapest priced tiers of route "AvantiWestCoast" Advances (which in theory, with railcard discount, could vary anywhere between £109.55 and £13.20, and with numerous price points inbetween) are sometimes never offered at the very lowest tiers, or if they are, in 'de minimis' quantities?

 

[Haywain]

Would it be fair to say that the very cheapest priced tiers of route "AvantiWestCoast" Advances (which in theory, with railcard discount, could vary anywhere between £109.55 and £13.20, and with numerous price points inbetween) are sometimes never offered at the very lowest tiers, or if they are, in 'de minimis' quantities?

That would seem logical at busy times in particular. If there is no need to encourage travel offering the lowest tiers would not serve a useful purpose, whereas higher tiers might be a help in controlling loadings.

For the OP, I suspect that any Saturday or Sunday when Liverpool are playing at home will not see bargains available on Avanti from London, especially if they are playing a London area team.

 

[Hadders]

Would it be fair to say that the very cheapest priced tiers of route "AvantiWestCoast" Advances (which in theory, with railcard discount, could vary anywhere between £109.55 and £13.20, and with numerous price points inbetween) are sometimes never offered at the very lowest tiers, or if they are, in 'de minimis' quantities?

Correct. Unfort unately there is no transparency when it comes to Advance tickets. There's nothing to stop a train company advertising tickets 'from £13.20' but only putting two of them on sale on the last train of the day.

 

[Trainbike46]

I travel regularly from Reading to Liverpool, usually on a Saturday or Sunday.

Normally I'd get a XC service to Birmingham New St then a WM service to Liverpool.

But on Sundays, I need to get to Liverpool late in the morning or latest around midday.

I am looking at Avanti WC which I haven't booked for ages. The advance tickets for the day I want to travel are released soon.

So I just wanted to know at what price do Advance tickets start at (with disabled persons Railcard) when new tickets are released for EUS-LIV?

I pay around £51 for a day return from Reading to Liverpool via XC & WMR. Don't want to pay too much of a premium to use Avanti.

I'd be looking to pay around £33 for 2 singles from EUS-LIV.

An off-peak (open) return for euston liverpool with a disabled railcard is £68.55. In my experience, it is very uncommon to beat this with two advance tickets, but if you book very soon after tickets were released you migh be able to. Personally, I would suggest looking at WMT-only fares if you aren't willing to pay avanti's off-peak return price

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[DanielDeronda]

An off-peak (open) return for euston liverpool with a disabled railcard is £68.55. In my experience, it is very uncommon to beat this with two advance tickets, but if you book very soon after tickets were released you migh be able to. Personally, I would suggest looking at WMT-only fares if you aren't willing to pay avanti's off-peak return price

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

I'm actually travelling from Reading so overall off peak return is £78.50 via Euston.

I can get it down to around £72 if I split my tickets @ Crewe. I've registered with Club Avanti but when I use the 10% discount code for the Euston-Crewe tickets, it doesn't work. I've checked T&C's & I meet the criteria.

There don't seem to be any WMR trains to get me to Liverpool in time.

I guess I'll have to go with the off peak return option as it offers the quickest services.

Unfortunately there are going to be a lot of Liverpool fixtures on a Sunday this season so won't be the last time I'll have to go via EUS instead of on XC/WMR.

 

[MrJeeves]

An off-peak (open) return for euston liverpool with a disabled railcard is £68.55. In my experience, it is very uncommon to beat this with two advance tickets, but if you book very soon after tickets were released you migh be able to. Personally, I would suggest looking at WMT-only fares if you aren't willing to pay avanti's off-peak return price

Alternatively, Avanti Superfare is another option that should beat the £70.

 

[JonathanH]

Alternatively, Avanti Superfare is another option that should beat the £70.

Is that available on football match days?

 

[MrJeeves]

Is that available on football match days?

Potentially not!

 

[Haywain]

Alternatively, Avanti Superfare is another option that should beat the £70.

Pretty risky if you need to arrive before a certain time, even if they are available. I think the OP will have to accept that travelling to Liverpool through London on Liverpool FC match days will mean travelling when trains are busy and 'cheap' fares are very thin on the ground.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Alternatively, Avanti Superfare is another option that should beat the £70.

Pretty risky if you need to arrive before a certain time, even if they are available. I think the OP will have to accept that travelling to Liverpool through London on Liverpool FC match days will mean travelling when trains are busy and 'cheap' fares are very thin on the ground.

Undoubtedly, even if there were, there's every chance you might get allocated a train arriving after the match's KO.

 

[paul1609]

Pretty risky if you need to arrive before a certain time, even if they are available. I think the OP will have to accept that travelling to Liverpool through London on Liverpool FC match days will mean travelling when trains are busy and 'cheap' fares are very thin on the ground.

My experience of travelling to league 1 destinations in the north west is that it's not as simple as when Liverpool (or Everton) are at home. If either of the Manchester teams are at home it has the effect that any Advanti train to Crewe or Warrington will also be in high demand. Basically it's any morning weekend departure from London during the season.
I envariably end up on a LNWR service to Crewe returning on one of the Chester Advanti services which always seem to have cheap seats in the evening.

 

[island]

Correct. Unfort unately there is no transparency when it comes to Advance tickets. There's nothing to stop a train company advertising tickets 'from £13.20' but only putting two of them on sale on the last train of the day.

Actually, the Advertising Standards Authority rules state that at least 10% of inventory must be available at an advertised "from" price, and that this must be distributed roughly evenly across different slots. See here for some policy information and here for a ruling where an advertiser failed to demonstrate that the best price (or in this case, the best reduction in an "up to 40% off cinema tickets" promotion) was not available at a sufficiently even range of venues/films/times.

Now, I don't think Avanti is advertising a "from" price here – we know about the existence of £13.20 tier from fare data/BRFares rather than from Avanti publicity – so they won't be in breach for that reason.

 

[DanielDeronda]

Thanks for all the advice.

My outward journey options are:

0748 from EUS, arrive PAD from RDG @ 0712, £40 rtn with railcard. Change @ BHM. Arrive LIV 1215. Split ticketing.

0807 from EUS same train to PAD as above £53 rtn. Change @ CRE. Arrive LIV 1115.

Or a rtn from RDG-LIV for £78.50 but can leave home at a later time.

Not a problem with return ticket.

My concern is that I'll miss the connection @ EUS @ 0748. 36mins would be ok on a weekday or Saturday but Sunday timetable not great.

I want to avoid the highest value ticket but offers most flexibility.

At least I've got a Saturday 3pm game on 19 August & a £51 fare & don't need 2 leave until 0915.

 

[Watershed]

My concern is that I'll miss the connection @ EUS @ 0748. 36mins would be ok on a weekday or Saturday but Sunday timetable not great.

Yes - this isn't enough time for it to constitute an official connection. You need to allow at least 15 minutes for the minimum connection time at Paddington and Euston, and a further 13 18 minutes for the journey on the Underground - so a total of 43 48 minutes. If you only allow 36 minutes, you will not be protected in the event of a missed connection, and will be unable to claim Delay Repay, or to take the next train if you're on an Advance.

What tickets are you looking at? Are these splits which you have come up with yourself, or have you used some sort of site to find them?

 

[alistairlees]

Yes - this isn't enough time for it to constitute an official connection. You need to allow at least 15 minutes for the minimum connection time at Paddington and Euston, and a further 13 minutes for the journey on the Underground - so a total of 43 minutes

The OP is travelling on a Sunday so will need at least 18 minutes for the tube journey from Paddington to Euston - a total of 48 minutes. So they will need to arrive at Paddington by 07.00 for an 07.48 departure from Euston.

 

[DanielDeronda]

I have found an alternative on the outward journey, I can get an 0800 service from Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street, then Bhm Moor St to Smethwick Galton Bridge, then SGB to Lime St. I get to Lime St at same time as using the earlier 0748.

And it's cheaper, with my travel card from Reading, it's around £64 in total, with split ticketing.

London to Birmingham £9.25 single
Birmingham to Crewe £5.60 single
Crewe to Liverpool day return £9.10
Crewe to London £21.10 single or £15.80 if I take the next service.
Travel card from Reading to Marylebone split Maidenhead £18.70

£63.75 or £58.45. How long is it to walk from Moor St to New Street? have 24mins max. And have 48mins to get to Marylebone from Paddington.

It's a bit of a hassle but best value I can find.

Got same journey on 24th September but will try again for cheap Avanti tickets.

 

[MrJeeves]

How long is it to walk from Moor St to New Street?

From exit to entrance, it's no more than 10 mins, even at a relatively leisurely pace. I can usually do platform to platform within 10 mins.

The official walking time is 8 mins, with 12 mins of interchange time at New Street and 5 mins at Moor Street, meaning the official minimum connection time (which is required for delay repay, etc.) is 25 mins.

 

[Watershed]

How long is it to walk from Moor St to New Street? have 24mins max.

It's about 10 minutes at an average walking pace - I've done it in about 5 minutes from platform to platform, albeit walking 'with purpose' and with knowledge of exactly where to go and what the shortcuts are! You want the A-end (eastern) exit from New Street ideally; the Liverpool services tend to terminate towards the B-end of the platform, so you want to be in the front carriage on your way into Birmingham to be nearest these escalators.

Continue out of the barriers in the same direction as your train arrives, heading towards the Smallbrook Queensway/Bullring exit:


Then continue towards the Bullring, turn left and continue past the bus stops, cross the road (it's restricted to buses and taxis only, so not usually busy) and then continue along the dingy covered passageway. At the other end you'll reach a set of traffic lights and Moor Street is right across the road:


If you miss the connection due to delays, you can take the next Chiltern service. If you'd be stranded by doing so, other operators such as Avanti/WMT are obliged to assist you. If the delay would be more than an hour, you'd be entitled to require Chiltern to re-route you on Avanti/WMT even if there's no risk of stranding - in practice this may require paying for a new ticket and then claiming this back.

And have 48mins to get to Marylebone from Paddington.

You could walk it in just over 15 minutes. It's just two stops on the Bakerloo line so you won't struggle.

It's a bit of a hassle but best value I can find.

A WMT only Advance from London to Liverpool might have been cheaper, and would have involved just the one change at Stafford (up and across the bridge) or Crewe (usually the same platform island, often even cross-platform). However, as with many things in travel, there's a trade-off between price and convenience.

 

[DanielDeronda]

As has been mentioned already during the thread, if I looked at the following Sunday with the same criteria, I'd pay a minimum of £33, so £16.50 for an advance single on a direct Avanti service.

The Avanti tickets are released on August 2nd for Sunday 24th September, my next Liverpool home game on a Sunday.

So will see if I can get anything cheaper than I got for 3rd September. But we're playing a London side, so not confident.

Will let you know how I get on & if I get to the match in time!!

 

[DanielDeronda]

And now my trip to Liverpool this Saturday is being impacted by the strike action by XC.

I can get to Lime St In time for the 3pm KO via XC & WMT but no services back to Reading via XC from Birmingham in the evening.

So looks like I'll have to go via London & WMT. But will add around 90mins to my arrival time in Reading. And another £8-£10 to pay.

Can anyone suggest most cost-effective route for LIV to RDG, departing LIV at around 1830 on 19th August? I want to avoid multiple changes

 

[MrJeeves]

Can anyone suggest most cost-effective route for LIV to RDG, departing LIV at around 1830 on 19th August?

You're effectively out of luck.

There's an itinerary with four charges leaving Lime Street at 18:43, which arrives into Reading at 00:10 and costs £62.99.

There's a few that cost closer to £52 and require leaving 30-60 mins earlier.

It's best if you look at what the forum's site can offer and find something you deem suitable: https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/re...=1&OutboundDate=19/08/2023&OutboundTime=18:00

 

[LYuen]

And now my trip to Liverpool this Saturday is being impacted by the strike action by XC.

I can get to Lime St In time for the 3pm KO via XC & WMT but no services back to Reading via XC from Birmingham in the evening.

So looks like I'll have to go via London & WMT. But will add around 90mins to my arrival time in Reading. And another £8-£10 to pay.

Can anyone suggest most cost-effective route for LIV to RDG, departing LIV at around 1830 on 19th August? I want to avoid multiple changes

A WMT only Off Peak / Super Off Peak return between Euston and Crewe, then Any route Day return between Crewe and Liverpool might make the trip?
Example itinerary:
Your way to Euston
10:41-12:54 WMT Euston - Crewe
13:26-14:04 AWC or 13:32-14:17 WMT, Crewe - Liverpool Lime St
* There is a 09:41 WMT service but it is off peak instead of super off peak

Return:
18:33-19:18 WMT or 18:43-19:12 AWC, Lime St to Crewe
20:13-22:44 WMT Crewe-Euston
Your way to Reading
* The Avanti service at 18:43 shows as sold out but you should be able to get onboard with a return ticket

Excluding Reading to London the 2 return ticket cost £38.9 and £13.9 respectively

 

[DanielDeronda]

Went with a slightly earlier service from EUS so 0941-1317 change at CRE & the 1833-2244 also change at CRE. Will get back home just after midnight, so it's about an extra 90mins on each journey.

£36.35 with a Railcard. Not ideal with nearly an hour at CRE on way back.

It's about an hour to get from my home to Euston & roughly an extra £19.

Hoping the strike action on XC doesn't continue for too much longer, got other trips I need to plan.

 

[LYuen]

Went with a slightly earlier service from EUS so 0941-1317 change at CRE & the 1833-2244 also change at CRE. Will get back home just after midnight, so it's about an extra 90mins on each journey.

£36.35 with a Railcard. Not ideal with nearly an hour at CRE on way back.

It's about an hour to get from my home to Euston & roughly an extra £19.

Hoping the strike action on XC doesn't continue for too much longer, got other trips I need to plan.

The next 2 Saturdays (26/8 and 2/9) there are industry wide strike while the Saturday after (9/9) there's again a XC strike.

It is ongoing

 

[DanielDeronda]

Have a query on my Delay Repay claim from LNWR on 19th August, between Liverpool & Reading.

They've paid me £18.18 which is only for the EUS-LIV part of my journey. I was delayed by over 1hr into my final destination which was Reading, so had bought a travelcard as well, so overall fare was £55.85.

Should they have paid me 50% of the £55.85 not just £36.35?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have a query on my Delay Repay claim from LNWR on 19th August, between Liverpool & Reading.

They've paid me £18.18 which is only for the EUS-LIV part of my journey. I was delayed by over 1hr into my final destination which was Reading, so had bought a travelcard as well, so overall fare was £55.85.

Should they have paid me 50% of the £55.85 not just £36.35?

Did you submit both tickets and enter the fare as £55.85? If so yes, they should have paid 50% of that.

Appeal it.