Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[daodao]

Further Arriva cutbacks will be occurring in East Cheshire from 14th November 2021 according to the Cheshire East Council website. Exact details of the new service frequencies are not yet available. However, the number of core town routes in Macclesfield is being reduced from 6 to 4 with just routes 3, 4, 9 and 10 (revised) remaining and routes 2 and 21 withdrawn. Circular routes 5 and 6 only currently operate less than a handful of early/late journeys.

Bus Service Changes

Bus service news, notices and changes affecting bus services in East Cheshire, including Crewe, Nantwich, Macclesfield, Congleton and Alsager.

www.cheshireeast.gov.uk

14 November 2021 Arriva changes

• 2, 2A Arriva Macclesfield - Weston Estate: cancelled.
• 3 Arriva Macclesfield - Weston Estate: timetable revised.
• 4 Arriva Macclesfield - Upton Priory: timetable revised.
• 5 & 6 Arriva Macclesfield - Weston: timetable revised
• 6, 6E Arriva Leighton Hospital - Crewe - Brookhouse Estate Circular: timetable revised and 3 Saturday morning journeys withdrawn frequency now hourly between 7 and 9am on Saturdays.
• 9 Arriva Macclesfield - Moss Rose: timetable revised
• 10 Arriva Macclesfield – Hurdsfield, Hulley Road - Bollington: route and timetable changed to incorporate part of the withdrawn 21, 21A route via Hulley Road. 10A variation journeys withdrawn. No longer serves Tytherington High school or Marlborough school.
• 21, 21A Arriva Macclesfield - Hurdsfield: cancelled
• 31, 31W Arriva Crewe - Northwich: service number changed, route changed in Winsford and Northwich area and timetable revised.
• 37, 37W Arriva Crewe - Winsford: service number changed, route changed in Winsford area and timetable revised.
• 38 Arriva Crewe – Macclesfield: timetable revised
• 84 Arriva Crewe – Chester: reduced service Monday to Saturday to match Saturday frequency

 

[323235]

Further cut backs are happening in Cheshire East - the 85 Sunday service is being chopped , the 94 will no longer operate on Saturdays between Congleton and Biddulph. The 42 and 317 are to have a revised timetable.

D&G have registered to cancel the 130 from April.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

D&G have registered to cancel the 130 from April.

Getting a bit like "Now you see it, now you don't" with that particular service.

 

[LOL The Irony]

D&G have registered to cancel the 130 from April.

Sounds about right for our friends at d&g. Take on a basket case, "improve it", get some brownie points, it fails, say we tried, repeat.

 

[jfollows]

Further cut backs are happening in Cheshire East - the 85 Sunday service is being chopped , the 94 will no longer operate on Saturdays between Congleton and Biddulph. The 42 and 317 are to have a revised timetable.

D&G have registered to cancel the 130 from April.

Do you have any more information, eg a link to a notice, about the 130 cancellation? I'm not surprised, by the way. Thank you!

PS I did think I looked through the regular PSV notices for the North West, but I may have missed it.

 

[Simon75]

Do you have any more information, eg a link to a notice, about the 130 cancellation? I'm not surprised, by the way. Thank you!

PS I did think I looked through the regular PSV notices for the North West, but I may have missed

Bus Service Changes

Bus service news, notices and changes affecting bus services in East Cheshire, including Crewe, Nantwich, Macclesfield, Congleton and Alsager.

www.cheshireeast.gov.uk

 

[markymark2000]

The 130 has gone out to tender by Cheshire East council.
The contract runs 03/04/2022 – 31/03/2023 (with the option to extend for 2 x 12 months) and has 6 options for the operation so I think Cheshire East are trying now to get a half decent service.

 

[jfollows]

The 130 has gone out to tender by Cheshire East council.
The contract runs 03/04/2022 – 31/03/2023 (with the option to extend for 2 x 12 months) and has 6 options for the operation so I think Cheshire East are trying now to get a half decent service.

Thank you.
I found the tender summary at https://procontract.due-north.com/A...b64545&p=e0cc5631-4690-e511-80fb-000c29c9ba21 "Local Bus Service N50130 Macclesfield - Handforth or Wythenshawe" but your summary provides more information than the tender summary does.

 

[markymark2000]

Thank you.
I found the tender summary at https://procontract.due-north.com/A...b64545&p=e0cc5631-4690-e511-80fb-000c29c9ba21 "Local Bus Service N50130 Macclesfield - Handforth or Wythenshawe" but your summary provides more information than the tender summary does.

Yeah, you have to sign up to get the full details.

In short, there are 6 options.

1. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Sat (2 buses)
2. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Fri, 2 hourly Sat (2 buses Mon-Fri, 1 bus Saturday)
3. Macc - Handforth Half hourly Mon-Sat (4 buses)
4. Macc - Wythenshawe Interchange via Handforth and Airport Hourly Mon-Sat (3 buses)
5. As per option 4 but Saturdays every 90 minutes (3 buses Mon-Fri, 2 buses Sat)
6. Macc - Handforth half hourly with hourly extension to Wythenshawe via airport (5 buses)

Options 1, 2, 3 are for Euro 5
Options 4, 5, 6 are for Euro 6.

 

[jfollows]

Many thanks, it will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
For me, Wythenshawe Hospital is a good destination because otherwise it's a 3 hour round trip from Wilmslow on public transport; even if the 130 were to continue to go there it'd be a 2 hour round trip with a hospital appointment between hourly services. However my need to go regularly went away and pre-dated the tram even.

Yeah, you have to sign up to get the full details.

I ran a £37.5m public sector tender myself once and I insisted on publishing all the tender documents on a public website without any need for registration, but I think this is unusual. So thank you again for your summary.

To be fair on Cheshire East Council, though, the current administration seems much more open than the previous (Conservative) one. When I asked them for the cost of the 130 contract they told me immediately; the previous lot would have refused and flanneled on about "commercial confidentiality" with little doubt.

 

[markymark2000]

Many thanks, it will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
For me, Wythenshawe Hospital is a good destination because otherwise it's a 3 hour round trip from Wilmslow on public transport; even if the 130 were to continue to go there it'd be a 2 hour round trip with a hospital appointment between hourly services. However my need to go regularly went away and pre-dated the tram even.

The hospital I think must be being cut because of the additional time An extra 3 mins from Handforth to the Airport then another 2 mins from the Airport to Wythenshawe. On the return, you will get 13 mins from Wythenshawe to the Airport (vice 7 minutes) and then 12 mins to Handforth (vice 8 minutes)

I ran a £37.5m public sector tender myself once and I insisted on publishing all the tender documents on a public website without any need for registration, but I think this is unusual. So thank you again for your summary.

Many tenders in the bus industry are done via some DPS thing (which when explained, seems like you join a mailing list kind of thing and tenders only get seen by those on the list. If you aren't 'in the club', you can't win) so you rarely see them go out to the public. Especially with Cheshire East, this is one of the only ones.

 

[jfollows]

Many tenders in the bus industry are done via some DPS thing (which when explained, seems like you join a mailing list kind of thing and tenders only get seen by those on the list. If you aren't 'in the club', you can't win) so you rarely see them go out to the public. Especially with Cheshire East, this is one of the only ones.

Thanks for the info.
Yes, when I ran "my" tender I asked and answered two questions:

1. Do I care if anyone can read the tender documents? No, because I'm spending taxpayers' money and therefore the taxpayer has a right to see what I'm doing with it.
2. Do I care if someone submits a compliant but inappropriate response? No, because it's my responsibility to write the tender properly, so that the scoring of responses would properly eliminate something unsuitable.

It seems to me that the same considerations apply to most tenders. But I found a lot of my colleagues felt that secrecy was a good idea whereas I didn't ...... anyway, I'm veering off-topic as usual so I'll shut up on the topic now!

 

[sonic2009]

Does anyone know if the 85 Crewe - Newcastle was funded by Cheshire East? Or was it run on a commercial basis by D&G?

 

[daodao]

Yeah, you have to sign up to get the full details.

In short, there are 6 options.

1. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Sat (2 buses)
2. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Fri, 2 hourly Sat (2 buses Mon-Fri, 1 bus Saturday)
3. Macc - Handforth Half hourly Mon-Sat (4 buses)
4. Macc - Wythenshawe Interchange via Handforth and Airport Hourly Mon-Sat (3 buses)
5. As per option 4 but Saturdays every 90 minutes (3 buses Mon-Fri, 2 buses Sat)
6. Macc - Handforth half hourly with hourly extension to Wythenshawe via airport (5 buses)

Options 1, 2, 3 are for Euro 5
Options 4, 5, 6 are for Euro 6.

Thank you for supplying the options. The current operation requires 3 buses Mon-Fri and 1 bus Sat and is clearly unsustainable. Option 2 is therefore preferable from a public expenditure perspective, given that Cheshire East Council are cutting services/subsidies for elements of services 42/85/94/317 in South Cheshire.

It will also avoid paying Burnham's environment tax and the need for a Euro 6 specification vehicle. If the service enters Greater Manchester, the extra cost per day per vehicle will be £60, amounting to £18,300 per annum for each bus if not operating Sun/BH (305 days) and £15,180 per annum for each bus if not operating Sat/Sun/BH (253 days), so the additional annual costs (which would be paid by Cheshire East Council) for the 6 options would be:

1. £0
2. £0
3. £0
4. £54,900
5. £51,780
6. £91,500

 

[markymark2000]

Does anyone know if the 85 Crewe - Newcastle was funded by Cheshire East? Or was it run on a commercial basis by D&G?

Commercial I think

given that Cheshire East Council are cutting services/subsidies for elements of services 42/85/94/317 in South Cheshire. It will also avoid paying Burnham's environment tax and the need for a Euro 6 specification vehicle.

Any evidence of this? The 85 and 94 are commercial changes, nothing to do with Cheshire East. The 317 and 42 are timetable revisions, nothing to suggest cuts.

 

[station_road]

The 85 Sunday service received some funding from Keele University at one point, but don't know if that is still the case.

I think the 85 is the last Sunday bus that D&G run from the Crewe depot, the only remaining services in Crewe on a Sunday will be the Arriva 84 to Chester and the First 3 to Hanley (both commercial with no subsidy).

 

[markymark2000]

I think the 85 is the last Sunday bus that D&G run from the Crewe depot, the only remaining services in Crewe on a Sunday will be the Arriva 84 to Chester and the First 3 to Hanley (both commercial with no subsidy).

D&G run the Chester 15A from Crewe on a Sunday though this is up for tender now at the moment.

 

[station_road]

Traveline is showing the 42 as being operated by Al's Coaches from 21 February, with a similar timetable to the current D&G one - although the D&G times are still showing on the same date as well. They seem to be a Merseyside based operator, hopefully they are more reliable than GHA were when they ran (or pretended to run in many cases) the route

 

[markymark2000]

Traveline is showing the 42 as being operated by Al's Coaches from 21 February, with a similar timetable to the current D&G one - although the D&G times are still showing on the same date as well. They seem to be a Merseyside based operator, hopefully they are more reliable than GHA were when they ran (or pretended to run in many cases) the route

Has to be an error else Cheshire East would have posted that. Also D&G have registered the changes themselves.

PC1090231/156 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

 

[jfollows]

Yeah, you have to sign up to get the full details.

In short, there are 6 options.

1. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Sat (2 buses)
2. Macc - Handforth hourly Mon-Fri, 2 hourly Sat (2 buses Mon-Fri, 1 bus Saturday)
3. Macc - Handforth Half hourly Mon-Sat (4 buses)
4. Macc - Wythenshawe Interchange via Handforth and Airport Hourly Mon-Sat (3 buses)
5. As per option 4 but Saturdays every 90 minutes (3 buses Mon-Fri, 2 buses Sat)
6. Macc - Handforth half hourly with hourly extension to Wythenshawe via airport (5 buses)

Options 1, 2, 3 are for Euro 5
Options 4, 5, 6 are for Euro 6.

One more question if you wouldn't mind: I note that from 1 June 2022 any (diesel) bus which doesn't comply with Euro 6 emissions will be charged £60/day for operating in Greater Manchester. Does the tender mandate compliant buses or is it more simply just stumping up the daily charge for non-compliant buses for the operators for options 4, 5 & 6? If it's the latter then I'm not happy that my money is being used in this manner!

 

[markymark2000]

One more question if you wouldn't mind: I note that from 1 June 2022 any (diesel) bus which doesn't comply with Euro 6 emissions will be charged £60/day for operating in Greater Manchester. Does the tender mandate compliant buses or is it more simply just stumping up the daily charge for non-compliant buses for the operators for options 4, 5 & 6? If it's the latter then I'm not happy that my money is being used in this manner!

You can find the answer above.

Options 1, 2, 3 are for Euro 5
Options 4, 5, 6 are for Euro 6.

 

[323235]

Has to be an error else Cheshire East would have posted that. Also D&G have registered the changes themselves.

PC1090231/156 – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

Could be that one operator has registered it commercially?

 

[sonic2009]

Could be that one operator has registered it commercially?

The 42 onky survives with funding from Cheshire East I believe.

 

[323235]

Yes I know the 42 has always been a subsidised service but maybe one operator has registered it commercially for some reason perhaps with the hope of negociating a part subsidy rather than a full subsidy.

One can only speculate based on instances such as the abandoned X57 Macclesfield - Leek situation for potential scenarios.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Options 1, 2, 3 are for Euro 5
Options 4, 5, 6 are for Euro 6.

Well 4, 5 & 6 rule out d&g as you can't be guaranteed they'll keep their Euro 6 buses on the 130, as that means less good buses for Crewe and Stoke. I believe the last time a Euro 6 bus last operated north of Northwich was when they started their commercial 38 to Macclesfield.

On another note, how many Euro 6 buses do they have?

 

[markymark2000]

Well 4, 5 & 6 rule out d&g as you can't be guaranteed they'll keep their Euro 6 buses on the 130, as that means less good buses for Crewe and Stoke. I believe the last time a Euro 6 bus last operated north of Northwich was when they started their commercial 38 to Macclesfield.

On another note, how many Euro 6 buses do they have?

Anything can happen though. Companies do buy new buses just for contracts and I think D&G would consider it but they would struggle proving the buses.

Yes I know the 42 has always been a subsidised service but maybe one operator has registered it commercially for some reason perhaps with the hope of negociating a part subsidy rather than a full subsidy.

One can only speculate based on instances such as the abandoned X57 Macclesfield - Leek situation for potential scenarios.

Happy Al's are as likely to take this as D&G are Wirral services. It's too far for them to make viable.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Anything can happen though. Companies do buy new buses just for contracts and I think D&G would consider it but they would struggle proving the buses.

I wonder then, if it'll go to someone like Stagecoach or GNW. Swans, Selwyns, GoGoodwins and Diamond could also be contenders. I don't see Arriva taking it, considering they're wanting to sell off Macc.

 

[markymark2000]

I wonder then, if it'll go to someone like Stagecoach or GNW. Swans, Selwyns, GoGoodwins and Diamond could also be contenders. I don't see Arriva taking it, considering they're wanting to sell off Macc.

A tender win is a tender win. Let's be honest, no one saw Arriva winning many tenders in the local area that they ended up winning.

It's unlikely for a Manchester Op to run it just because of the wages. It's not impossible though and anyone can bid. You or I could even bid for it.

 

[Martin1988]

The 85 Sunday service received some funding from Keele University at one point, but don't know if that is still the case.

I think the 85 is the last Sunday bus that D&G run from the Crewe depot, the only remaining services in Crewe on a Sunday will be the Arriva 84 to Chester and the First 3 to Hanley (both commercial with no subsidy).

I thought the 8 ran on a Sunday but having read this post I looked on the D&G website and seems it no longer does. Can anybody advise me as to when the sunday journeys on that route got withdrawn?

Also interesting that the sunday journeys on the 38 have not returned since March 2020. Does this suggest that D&G didn't consider the route commercially viable and regardless of the pandemic would have maybe eventually withdrawn it?

 

[station_road]

I thought the 8 ran on a Sunday but having read this post I looked on the D&G website and seems it no longer does. Can anybody advise me as to when the sunday journeys on that route got withdrawn?

Also interesting that the sunday journeys on the 38 have not returned since March 2020. Does this suggest that D&G didn't consider the route commercially viable and regardless of the pandemic would have maybe eventually withdrawn it?

The Sunday 8 and 38 buses were both commercially operated and disappeared during the changes for the first lockdown in March 2020.

Someone asked about subsidy for the 85 earlier - the link provided earlier to the bus servive registrations on bustimes.org (which I hadn't seen before, so thanks for that) shows the 85 as part subsidised by both Staffordshire and Cheshire East Councils, which is news to me (it doesn't say which part of the route or which journeys are subsidised)

Link to D&G Bus service 85 registration details on bustimes.org

Edit: in fact, looking at the Traffic Commissioner data at https://data.gov.uk/dataset/9ea90ed...-commissioners-local-bus-service-registration the only non-school buses that D&G run in Cheshire without subsidy are the 8, 12 and 38 - everything else is shown as receiving some subsidy.