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Chiltern Main Line during the 70s/80s

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sk688

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Hi all

Just had a quick question about the Chiltern Main Line during the 1970s and 80s , i.e it's downturn

I have read about how patronage was poor and the stations and service were a mess , but does anyone have any recollections of the service

Ones i'd like to hear about would be the Inner London stopping services , or the Aylesbury via Harrow Services , but any would do ?

Also does anyone have any pictures of what stations like Sudbury Hill Harrow and Northolt Park were like during this time ?

Any replies would be appreciated
Thanks in advance
 
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Bill EWS

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An hourly service too and from Marylebone, Aylesbury and High Wycombe, with a two hourly service too and from Banbury. There was also services between Aylesbury via P. Riceborough. There were extensive Morning and evening peak-hour services with DMU's running closely together, with varying stopping points between them.

One diesel-hauled service from Paddington to Banbury via Wycombe and P. Riceborough. Some parcel services with the one between Bletchley and Aylesbury.

I got my driving job at Marylebone in 1974 and worked there until 1981.
 

Muzer

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What (if anything) ran beyond Banbury? Local services to Leamington Spa and not much else besides the CrossCountries? Or a little more?
 

Bald Rick

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Happy to be corrected, but Banbury was the northern extent for services out of Marylebone.
 

PeterY

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The 1976 timetable shows just how bad the services were. Hardly any services Aylesbury to Princess Risborough.

Hourly on a Sunday between Aylesbury and Amersham only.

Video 125 did a Drivers Eye View between Marylebone and Banbury, for anyone who has seen it, it was literally a drivers view:D:D
 

SouthDevonian

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I agree that Banbury was the northern limit from Marylebone. Any further in those first generation DMUs would not have been a good passenger experience.
I went from Marylebone to New St in 1974 and had to change from one at Banbury.

There was also a sole evening peak hour Paddington - New St than ran via High Wycombe. I went on this once in 1976 and noted that the 47 recovered almost 8 minutes of a late start, despite making the 7 stops, to reach New St in fraction over 2hours 10mins.
 

Cowley

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I went on a Paddington to Banbury train in June 1991, it was the 1737 from Paddington via High Wycombe and it had 47707 on it.
Did this or any equivalent loco hauled service ever start from Marylebone in the 70s or 80s does anyone know?
I remember in the 80s how run down Marylebone seemed to be too. Smokey 115 units everywhere but also 4472 Flying Scotsman on shed for the Stratford on Avon steam specials an Ethel (97252 I think) and old class 15 for carriage heating.
 

30907

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I went on a Paddington to Banbury train in June 1991, it was the 1737 from Paddington via High Wycombe and it had 47707 on it.
Did this or any equivalent loco hauled service ever start from Marylebone in the 70s or 80s does anyone know?

No. The train and its morning counterpart were the remains of the Paddington-New Street service introduced in 1967 and mentioned above. The rest of these had been altered to run via Oxford in the mid 70s/early 80s.
 
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theageofthetra

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Can remember travelling from there in about 1980 & being unbelievably excited that I could see out of the front of the train. What I do remember is the odd mix of fuel fumes, stale fags and god knows what which reminded me of cross channel car ferries of that era.
 

87015

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No. The train and its morning counterpart were the remains of the Paddington-New Street service introduced in 1967 and mentioned above. The rest of these had been altered to run via Oxford in the mid 70s/early 80s. MYB was pure DMU (steam specials apart).

By the late 80s a fair amount of "vice" turns, usually EH duffs so little reported but one set out more often than not for months at a time in/out of Marylebone - dedicated set of stock approx 1988-1991. Included met line workings too!
 
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Cowley

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By the late 80s a fair amount of "vice" turns, usually EH duffs so little reported but one set out more often than not for months at a time in/out of Marylebone - dedicated set of stock approx 1988-1991. Included met line workings too!

I think I remember reading about that at the time. When did the 115s finish and the 165s take over then?
I haven't been to Marylebone for years but looking at photos it looks incredibly smart now days.
 

Hornet

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Hi all

Just had a quick question about the Chiltern Main Line during the 1970s and 80s , i.e it's downturn

I have read about how patronage was poor and the stations and service were a mess , but does anyone have any recollections of the service

Ones i'd like to hear about would be the Inner London stopping services , or the Aylesbury via Harrow Services , but any would do ?

Also does anyone have any pictures of what stations like Sudbury Hill Harrow and Northolt Park were like during this time ?

Any replies would be appreciated
Thanks in advance

Some of my collection c.1983.

The 50 at Saunderton is on the 17:40 Paddington to Wolverhampton on the 20th September 1983.
 

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Cowley

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Thanks for putting those on, they're excellent.
 

Peter Mugridge

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No. The train and its morning counterpart were the remains of the Paddington-New Street service introduced in 1967 and mentioned above. The rest of these had been altered to run via Oxford in the mid 70s/early 80s. MYB was pure DMU (steam specials apart).

There was one 47 hauled Network Express that ran from Marylebone; I'll have to find the photo and scan it again although I have posted it on here before a couple of years ago if anyone wants to try to get through the search system to find it.
 

PeterC

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There were some loco hauled excursions from Marylebone at weekends. I remember taking one of the mystery tours from there.

Even if you could run something like that these days RTT would be a big spoiler.
 

Ash Bridge

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I think I remember reading about that at the time. When did the 115s finish and the 165s take over then?
I haven't been to Marylebone for years but looking at photos it looks incredibly smart now days.

Class 165 'Networker Turbos' were booked to operate all Marylebone-High Wycombe/Banbury services from 20 January 1992, source :'Ian Allan's 50 Years of Railways 1942-1992'
 

MarlowDonkey

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Class 165 'Networker Turbos' were booked to operate all Marylebone-High Wycombe/Banbury services from 20 January 1992,

When did the service extend north from Banbury to Birmingham Snow Hill? Presumably in the Network South East era, because it was already established when Chiltern took over.

The reopening of Snow Hill and Moor Street was late 1980s, was it not?
 

CarltonA

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The reopening of Snow Hill and Moor Street was late 1980s, was it not?

Snow Hill reopened in 1987. Moor Street never closed down as such, the services just moved over to the new side when Snow Hill reopened. The old part was then disused until it was refurbished and reopened later on.
 

Cowley

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Class 165 'Networker Turbos' were booked to operate all Marylebone-High Wycombe/Banbury services from 20 January 1992, source :'Ian Allan's 50 Years of Railways 1942-1992'

Thanks Mr Bridge. :)
 

Ash Bridge

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When did the service extend north from Banbury to Birmingham Snow Hill? Presumably in the Network South East era, because it was already established when Chiltern took over.

The reopening of Snow Hill and Moor Street was late 1980s, was it not?
I'm making an uneducated guess here, perhaps when the 168 Clubman units were made available for service so maybe a couple of years after the demise of NSE? I do stand to be corrected here though.
Thanks Mr Bridge. :)

You're welcome Mr Cowley :)
 

BanburyBlue

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I also stand to be corrected...

When the 165s turned up all services still terminated at Banbury.

I THINK Birmingham services started before the 168s arrived. In the early days it was a much reduced service compared to today. Again I THINK it was when the service was boosted that the 168s were brought on board.

I don't remember the loco hauled NSE service. I do remember the Paddington terminator - usually 50 hauled - great excitement for a young spotter.

There was also a one off early morning service from Banbury to Birmingham Moor Street. IIRC used to leave Banbury at 7ish? It comprised of a WMPTE unit.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I will have a look for the picture over the weekend - but in the meantime for those search fanatics, I think it was the "Guess the station" thread I posted it in. Round about 2 - 3 years ago.

It was definitely a regular weekday evening peak working.
 

adrock1976

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Regarding the Banbury - Birmingham Snow Hill extensions in the 1990s, I remember picking up a timetable for the local services that ran between Birmingham SH and Leamington Spa in the autumn of 1993.

Upon examining the timetable for any alterations etc, I was totally surprised to see that there were direct trains from Birmingham SH, Moor Street, Solihull, etc to London Marylebone. There was no fanfare or huge blaze of publicity, they just suddenly appeared in the timetable out of the middle of nowhere.

The frequency was broadly every 2 hours in 1993. With the various redoubling schemes under the Evergreen projects, the frequency was gradually increased to every 60 minutes circa 1998 so as to coincide with the introduction of the Class 168 Clubman trains, then to the present day broadly every 30 minutes.
 

30907

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By the late 80s a fair amount of "vice" turns, usually EH duffs so little reported but one set out more often than not for months at a time in/out of Marylebone - dedicated set of stock approx 1988-1991. Included met line workings too!

I stand corrected - I lived in the NE at the time and obviously missed the pix. Original comment corrected.
 

BanburyBlue

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By the late 80s a fair amount of "vice" turns, usually EH duffs so little reported but one set out more often than not for months at a time in/out of Marylebone - dedicated set of stock approx 1988-1991. Included met line workings too!

May be a stupid question but what is a 'vice turn' or a 'EH duff'?
 

Hornet

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Report on the Collision that occurred on 11th December 1981 near Seer Green in the London Midland Region British Railways

"Commencing on Tuesday, 8th December 1981 the weather in southern England became exceptionally wintery, with temperatures well below zero and frequent heavy falls of snow. With the first heavy snow on the Tuesday, the branches of trees in the railway cutting near Seer Green, on the London (Marylebone) to Banbury line, became weighed down by snow and some overhung the line and were brushed by trains. This was reported by drivers and subsequent trains were cautioned by the signalmen on either side. Conditions improved slightly on the Wednesday and Thursday, with no further reports of overhanging trees, but during the early hours of Friday, llth December there were further heavy falls of snow and around 08.00 the snow was still falling, driven by a strong north wind, and with ground temperatures well below zero. At about this time, the 07.25 Marylebone to Princes Risborough, a special empty stock train formed of four diesel multiple-unit vehicles, came to a stand on the Down Line in the cutting when the driver saw what he took to be a substantial tree branch obstructing the line. He telephoned the signalman at High Wycombe and said that he would clear the obstruction and that this would take a few minutes. Neither he nor his guard took any other action to protect the train.

Meanwhile, the following train, the 07.31 Marylebone to Banbury passenger train, had arrived at Gerrards Cross where the signalman, who although qualified was inexperienced, had just arrived and opened the signal box. After telling the driver about the reports of overhanging trees in the cutting, the signalman tried to clear the signal controlling entry to the signal section ahead but was unable to do so. The signal lever was in fact locked electrically by the occupation of track circuits in the section by the empty stock train but the signalman, misreading or failing to comprehend the indications shown on his signal box diagram, assumed that the signal mechanism had frozen and authorised the driver to pass the signal at Danger. It was only a matter of minutes before he realised that he had made a mistake but it was already too late to stop the train.

The driver of the passenger train should have proceeded with caution but drove too fast for the conditions. Entering the cutting, he must have caught sight of the stationary train ahead and applied his brakes, but his train was still travelling at about 30 mile/h when it hit the back of the other one. The leading vehicle of the passenger train forced its way under the bodywork of the rear vehicle of the empty stock train, lifting it into the air, and came to rest having over-ridden the buffers of the rear vehicle by about seven yards and having pushed the entire empty stock train, which had its brakes applied, forward some 75 yards. The impacting of the two trains crushed the forward part of the leading coach of the passenger train, trapping the driver and a number of passengers. I much regret to report that the driver and three of the passengers, a young man of 17 and two schoolboys, received fatal injuries. Four other passengers and the guard of the passenger train were injured and were taken to Wrexham Park Hospital, Slough."

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=803

That was one horrible winter. Was working nights at Slough and was aware of what happened. Was called out on an Aster Track Failure on the 13th at Maidenhead. Air temperature at 3am was -19C and Rail temperature at Ruscombe was measured by the PWay as -27C. It was !!**??!!??** cold.
 
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bspahh

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http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=803

That was one horrible winter. Was working nights at Slough and was aware of what happened. Was called out on an Aster Track Failure on the 13th at Maidenhead. Air temperature at 3am was -19C and Rail temperature at Ruscombe was measured by the PWay as -27C. It was !!**??!!??** cold.

The two schoolboys were in their first term at the RGS in Wycombe, the year below me.

The empty damaged train was parked in a siding to the South East of Wycombe station for a few days afterwards.
 
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