Chiltern Railways refuse to serve Wembley Stadium when Euston - Birmingham is closed.

[CyrusWuff]

Bottom line: Chiltern do not have sufficient stock or traincrew to provide additional capacity between London and the West Midlands during a WCML block and also provide additional capacity to Wembley Stadium.

Had they produced a train plan that tried to achieve both, it would only have needed a couple of cancellations for there to be significant safety concerns at Wembley.

It may be less convenient, but there are alternative routes available to and from Wembley. During a WCML block, Chiltern is the only direct rail route between Birmingham and London.

Given the DfT call the shots on timetabling and fleet usage now (single crush-loaded Voyagers on XC anyone?) I would also assume that Chiltern had to get the proposal approved by them as well.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Anyway, after seeing the social media reactions on the notice about the withdrawal of service, I have submitted an escalation to London Travelwatch copying my conversation with Chiltern Railways customer service, and they have accepted my case. I have also asked them if such an act to withdraw train services violates any franchise commitment.

I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.

Be careful what you wish for. It was these sort of complaints (where one person was mildly inconvenienced) that saw working useable toilets locked out of use because they weren't accessibility compliant, so no-one on the train had a toilet.

Or requiring all rail replacement buses to have wheelchair access, so the number of RRBs was scaled back, and places simply didn't have a service.

It's an instant way to become unpopular.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Anyway, after seeing the social media reactions on the notice about the withdrawal of service, I have submitted an escalation to London Travelwatch copying my conversation with Chiltern Railways customer service, and they have accepted my case. I have also asked them if such an act to withdraw train services violates any franchise commitment.

I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.

There haven’t been any ‘franchises’ since Covid. Is the current DfT agreement in the public domain?

 

[skyhigh]

Be careful what you wish for. It was these sort of complaints (where one person was mildly inconvenienced) that saw working useable toilets locked out of use because they weren't accessibility compliant, so no-one on the train had a toilet.

Or requiring all rail replacement buses to have wheelchair access, so the number of RRBs was scaled back, and places simply didn't have a service.

It's an instant way to become unpopular.

Maybe they should just shut the station permanently, then they wouldn't have to withdraw services on occasions like these. It's a popular short-faring destination too so win-win...

 

[SynthD]

There haven’t been any ‘franchises’ since Covid. Is the current DfT agreement in the public domain?

Yes. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/chiltern-railway-company-limited-2021-rail-contract

 

[Dr Hoo]

Yes. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/chiltern-railway-company-limited-2021-rail-contract

Thank you.

 

[12LDA28C]

Anyway, after seeing the social media reactions on the notice about the withdrawal of service, I have submitted an escalation to London Travelwatch copying my conversation with Chiltern Railways customer service, and they have accepted my case. I have also asked them if such an act to withdraw train services violates any franchise commitment.

I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.

You really do have too much time on your hands, don't you? Might I suggest taking up a hobby or pastime to while away the hours more constructively?

 

[stu]

Anyway, after seeing the social media reactions on the notice about the withdrawal of service, I have submitted an escalation to London Travelwatch copying my conversation with Chiltern Railways customer service, and they have accepted my case. I have also asked them if such an act to withdraw train services violates any franchise commitment.

I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.

There's always one, eh.

Chiltern only have limited resources, I really don't know what else you expected them to do - considering engineering works and Taylor Swift happening at the same time are out of their hands.

 

[rg177]

I have a couple of Chiltern-related videos on the work socials and I've noticed that in the past week, there's been a spike of people in the comments slagging off Chiltern and complaining that the trains were too full, very likely because they had WCML passengers on as well.

Face it, it would have been disastrous for them to attempt to stop at Wembley Stadium. Not stopping trains at stations where capacity would not be sufficient to cope (and where there are alternatives to fit the vast majority of passengers) is not a new thing - Northern have done it with Deansgate and the Manchester Christmas Markets plenty of times.

 

[Kite159]

I have a couple of Chiltern-related videos on the work socials and I've noticed that in the past week, there's been a spike of people in the comments slagging off Chiltern and complaining that the trains were too full, very likely because they had WCML passengers on as well.

Face it, it would have been disastrous for them to attempt to stop at Wembley Stadium. Not stopping trains at stations where capacity would not be sufficient to cope (and where there are alternatives to fit the vast majority of passengers) is not a new thing - Northern have done it with Deansgate and the Manchester Christmas Markets plenty of times.

The problem with Chiltern is an ageing fleet which lacks SDO so lengths are limited.

Also probably doesn't help that they are all too quick to send out a single 3 coach unit (or even a single 2 coach unit) on a London - Birmingham service which since Covid calls at more places south of Banbury [the days of a Chiltern service being something like London - Bicester North - Banbury - Leamington - Warwick [or Parkway] - Solihull - Birmingham are gone due to the Banbury stoppers getting the axe.

As for Northern with Deansgate, its the same with TfW at Cardiff Queen Street after big events at the millennium stadium, which is exit/interchange only.

 

[43096]

Anyway, after seeing the social media reactions on the notice about the withdrawal of service, I have submitted an escalation to London Travelwatch copying my conversation with Chiltern Railways customer service, and they have accepted my case. I have also asked them if such an act to withdraw train services violates any franchise commitment.

I will update this thread after a reply from London Travelwatch.

You've been given the answers comprehensively on here, so not sure what you're hoping to achieve by this. Other than annoying people and potentially making things worse longer term. Well done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An interesting question is what provision would be made for someone who had already purchased a ticket to Stadium prior to the change to the timetable? Was acceptance arranged on LU?

 

[150219]

The problem with Chiltern is an ageing fleet which lacks SDO so lengths are limited.

Also probably doesn't help that they are all too quick to send out a single 3 coach unit (or even a single 2 coach unit) on a London - Birmingham service which since Covid calls at more places south of Banbury [the days of a Chiltern service being something like London - Bicester North - Banbury - Leamington - Warwick [or Parkway] - Solihull - Birmingham are gone due to the Banbury stoppers getting the axe.

As for Northern with Deansgate, its the same with TfW at Cardiff Queen Street after big events at the millennium stadium, which is exit/interchange only.

Not especially relevant to this problem though. The issue being debated here is capacity (or lack of) for events at Wembley Stadium whilst the WCML is closed. Not the use of SDO (where fitted) or the diagrammed lengths of trains.

 

[renegademaster]

Not especially relevant to this problem though. The issue being debated here is capacity (or lack of) for events at Wembley Stadium whilst the WCML is closed. Not the use of SDO (where fitted) or the diagrammed lengths of trains.

SDO could mean they could lengthen the stoppers that would be going to Wembley and fit more people

 

[SynthD]

Due to the WCML closure this weekend, Chiltern say this, which must be about the lack of selective door operation.

An enhanced Chiltern Railways service will operate between Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street, with lengthened and some additional trains.

Due to over-length trains, no trains will call at Kings Sutton, Hatton and Lapworth. Rail replacement buses will operate as follows, for local journeys ONLY to/from these stations:

• Bicester North - Kings Sutton - Banbury.
• Warwick Parkway - Hatton - Lapworth - Dorridge.

 

[miklcct]

I have a couple of Chiltern-related videos on the work socials and I've noticed that in the past week, there's been a spike of people in the comments slagging off Chiltern and complaining that the trains were too full, very likely because they had WCML passengers on as well.

Face it, it would have been disastrous for them to attempt to stop at Wembley Stadium. Not stopping trains at stations where capacity would not be sufficient to cope (and where there are alternatives to fit the vast majority of passengers) is not a new thing - Northern have done it with Deansgate and the Manchester Christmas Markets plenty of times.

Taylor Swift Eras tour sparks travel chaos as fans vomit on delayed trains

Londoners have put on their sequins and feathers this weekend as Taylor Swift, arrived in the Big Smoke for her Eras tour – but the aftermath of the concert has seen trains delayed and fans stuck on transport for hours

www.mirror.co.uk

Taking to X (formerly Twitter), Ben Travis detailed the scenes he witnessed on the tube during the early hours of Sunday morning (June 23) on a packed and delayed tube. He wrote: "The bleakest of post-Taylor Swift scenes. Queued nearly two hours to get out, been trapped on a tube for 30 mins between Wembley and Finchley Road.

The irresponsibility of Chiltern has placed undue stress on TfL to carry thousands of passengers adding severity to any disruption on the tube network.

 

[12LDA28C]

Due to the WCML closure this weekend, Chiltern say this, which must be about the lack of selective door operation.

Not really. Simply about the fact that they have strengthened their train lengths and therefore unable to stop at certain stations. SDO has never been a thing on Chiltern so it's unlikely they would refer to it in a statement or anywhere else.

 

[Haywain]

SDO has never been a thing on Chiltern so it's unlikely they would refer to it in a statement or anywhere else.

Using the words "due to over-length trains" look a pretty clear reference to that very thing.

 

[12LDA28C]

The problem with Chiltern is an ageing fleet which lacks SDO so lengths are limited.

Also probably doesn't help that they are all too quick to send out a single 3 coach unit (or even a single 2 coach unit) on a London - Birmingham service which since Covid calls at more places south of Banbury [the days of a Chiltern service being something like London - Bicester North - Banbury - Leamington - Warwick [or Parkway] - Solihull - Birmingham are gone due to the Banbury stoppers getting the axe.

As for Northern with Deansgate, its the same with TfW at Cardiff Queen Street after big events at the millennium stadium, which is exit/interchange only.

I'm sure they do the best they can with what they have. There is no spare capacity in the fleet and any unit failures will lead to either a cancellation or shortforming. Not alot that can be done about that until a new and/or cascaded fleet arrives.

 

[12LDA28C]

Using the words "due to over-length trains" look a pretty clear reference to that very thing.

Or looking at it another way, a reference to limitations of the infrastructure, not the trains.

 

[CyrusWuff]

SDO could mean they could lengthen the stoppers that would be going to Wembley and fit more people

Wembley can accommodate eight car trains with no problem.

Short platforms South of Banbury are the Sudburys (three cars, but not served at weekends anyway), Kings Sutton (five cars), Marylebone Platform 4 (five cars), Northolt Park (five cars) and South Ruislip Platform 3 (five cars.) All the rest can accommodate at least six 23m vehicles.

 

[Haywain]

Or looking at it another way, a reference to limitations of the infrastructure, not the trains.

Right, so the problem is short platforms, not the lack of SDO - two things which are completely unrelated?

 

[12LDA28C]

Right, so the problem is short platforms, not the lack of SDO - two things which are completely unrelated?

Really? If platforms were longer there would be no need for SDO, seems pretty straightforward to me. At many locations all over the national network platforms have been extended to accommodate longer trains.

 

[Haywain]

At many locations all over the national network platforms have been extended to accommodate longer trains.

And many trains all over the network are equipped with SDO to allow them to use short platforms. So the short platforms or lack of SDO are just two sides of the same coin affecting Hatton, Lapworth etc.

 

[12LDA28C]

Wembley can accommodate eight car trains with no problem.

Short platforms South of Banbury are the Sudburys (three cars, but not served at weekends anyway), Kings Sutton (five cars), Marylebone Platform 4 (five cars), Northolt Park (five cars) and South Ruislip Platform 3 (five cars.) All the rest can accommodate at least six 23m vehicles.

That's correct but if you are going to run 8-car trains which as you assert can be accommodated at Wembley, then any stations that can accommodate less than 8 cars are a problem, not just those that can accommodate less than 6 cars.

 

[The exile]

Taylor Swift Eras tour sparks travel chaos as fans vomit on delayed trains

Londoners have put on their sequins and feathers this weekend as Taylor Swift, arrived in the Big Smoke for her Eras tour – but the aftermath of the concert has seen trains delayed and fans stuck on transport for hours

www.mirror.co.uk

The irresponsibility of Chiltern has placed undue stress on TfL to carry thousands of passengers adding severity to any disruption on the tube network.

True irresponsibility would be to advertise a service that you know won’t be able to cope with the demand.

 

[signed]

The main issue is something like that is very dangerous because it would absolutely never cope.

Being in a crowd is inherently dangerous, especially in an enclosed space like a train where anything that goes wrong can be deadly (there has been MANY issues with people loosing their lives in a poorly managed crowd)

 

[12LDA28C]

And many trains all over the network are equipped with SDO to allow them to use short platforms. So the short platforms or lack of SDO are just two sides of the same coin affecting Hatton, Lapworth etc.

Indeed, but there's not much point blaming a lack of something that has never existed on these units. You might as well say that slow journey times on trains diagrammed for Class 165 traction are down to Class 165s not being able to run at 100mph.

 

[JonathanH]

The irresponsibility of Chiltern has placed undue stress on TfL to carry thousands of passengers adding severity to any disruption on the tube network.

No, it has focused all of the queuing on one place that is built to handle the crowds. Passengers are free to disperse to other stations on foot, or stagger their journeys.

 

[Haywain]

Indeed, but there's not much point blaming a lack of something that has never existed on these units.

It's not about blame, it's about reasons. Short platforms are a reason, as is the lack of SDO.

You might as well say that slow journey times on trains diagrammed for Class 165 traction are down to Class 165s not being able to run at 100mph.

Well, that's clearly a major contributor even if it's not the sole reason.