Chiltern tender for 20 - 70 units

[12LDA28C]

Are those 2 rows alternative solutions, as one says "New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways" and the other "Low Emissions Rolling Stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways"?

Yes, two separate tenders have been issued.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looks like the "new" option for Chiltern stock has been removed - now for 20-70 existing vehicles.

Chiltern Railways seeks fleet proposals

UK: Chiltern Railways has invited proposals from established rolling stock owners for the lease and maintenance of between 25 and 70 existing vehicles to operate inter-city and regional services on the Chiltern Main Line between London Marylebone and Birmingham. The operator is seeking either...

www.railwaygazette.com

UK: Chiltern Railways has invited proposals from established rolling stock owners for the lease and maintenance of between 25 and 70 existing vehicles to operate inter-city and regional services on the Chiltern Main Line between London Marylebone and Birmingham.
The operator is seeking either ‘self-powered’ multiple units or locomotive-hauled coaches, which can operate at 160 km/h in fixed formations of five or six passenger vehicles.

The word "tender" is bandied about in this thread, but this is an invitation for rolling stock owners to make fleet proposals to Chiltern prior to them selecting a partner.
The off-lease ex-TPE Mk5 and ex-TfW 175 fleets are noted as broadly fitting the Chiltern spec.
There are 65 Mk5 vehicles (13x5 car), and the class 175 fleet is also 65 vehicles (11x3 car plus 16x2 car), assuming no withdrawals.
Lower noise emissions than the current Chiltern class 68 fleet are required.

 

[Bletchleyite]

New was only for the 165 replacement tender, which is separate.

 

[Snow1964]

The Government has updated manufacturers

Chiltern
20-70 units,
nominally 90 vehicles
Award date Early 2025

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65c0fe79704282000d752241/rolling-stock-procurement-letter-to-industry-dft.pdf

 

[Speed43125]

The Government has updated manufacturers

Chiltern
20-70 units,
nominally 90 vehicles
Award date Early 2025

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65c0fe79704282000d752241/rolling-stock-procurement-letter-to-industry-dft.pdf

Seems a difficult number for any one existing diesel fleet to match. 'Converted' is also a slightly curious word to use, given the document was going on about 'refurbishing' Voyagers and Pendolinos prior to that; no clue what if anything that might imply though.

More generally, with the message of that document, I can't help but think, despite what is said in the document about essentially avoiding a post-privatisation style drought of orders, all of these procurements are indicative of a building window in the latter parts of the decade, which isn't exactly a comfort for Derby who have ran out of work now, or Newton Aycliffe which is also getting to the end of its orderbook.

 

[Dan G]

New was only for the 165 replacement tender, which is separate.

Just to clarify something; Chiltern's three "Opportunity" notices have all been for one group of trains, up to 70 in number. They sought options for all "existing or converted" battery-electric trains, all new battery-electric trains, and "new or converted low emission" trains, to be quieter and cleaner than their existing trains.

They reserve the right to buy a mix from those options. But it's all for one new-to-Chiltern fleet.

 

[TH172341]

They want to replace the 165s as they are proving unreliable and hard to get spares for. The 168s have plenty left in them and are about to get a refurb. And yes, the Mk3s need to go.

On a related note to this, is there any update in regards to any Class 168 refurbishment / refresh?

 

[CR165022]

On a related note to this, is there any update in regards to any Class 168 refurbishment / refresh?

The first one, 168003, is due back within the next few weeks.

 

[TH172341]

The first one, 168003, is due back within the next few weeks.

Great news, thank you.

 

[12LDA28C]

The first one, 168003, is due back within the next few weeks.

Indeed, due back at Chiltern in June and the refresh has been quite extensive, both inside and outside.

 

[Snow1964]

The DfT have published a new pipeline of contracts spreadsheet (actually a csv file) see lines 20-21

Now described as New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways.

The second one is Low Emissions Rolling stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways

Both now showing as estimated 9th January 2025

Both showing as estimated value £400,000,000
(nearly £6m per vehicle if 70 vehicles)

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

 

[172007]

So the words "re Procurement" means that the scope has changed and puts MK5's out of the running?

 

[12LDA28C]

So the words "re Procurement" means that the scope has changed and puts MK5's out of the running?

No, the Mk5s are part of a separate procurement of cascaded stock which is due to come to fruition this year.

 

[Energy]

So the words "re Procurement" means that the scope has changed and puts MK5's out of the running?

The procurement of existing vehicles ended on the 2nd February 2024. It's unclear whether there has been an award for this is not.

If this procurement goes ahead the fleet would expect to remain at Chiltern till at least 2036, so I'd expect the DfT to be weighing up an existing fleet (Mk5As) versus battery units and pushing electrification of part of Chiltern forward.

 

[172007]

No, the Mk5s are part of a separate procurement of cascaded stock which is due to come to fruition this year.

Thank you for clarification.

 

[12LDA28C]

The DfT have published a new pipeline of contracts spreadsheet (actually a csv file) see lines 20-21

Now described as New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways.

The second one is Low Emissions Rolling stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways

Both now showing as estimated 9th January 2025

Both showing as estimated value £400,000,000
(nearly £6m per vehicle if 70 vehicles)

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

It will be one or the other, Battery-Electric or Low Emissions (including Hybrid units) depending on various factors. £6m per vehicle seems exorbitant, three times the cost of most new passenger vehicles recently built.

The procurement of existing vehicles ended on the 2nd February 2024. It's unclear whether there has been an award for this is not.

If this procurement goes ahead the fleet would expect to remain at Chiltern till at least 2036, so I'd expect the DfT to be weighing up an existing fleet (Mk5As) versus battery units and pushing electrification of part of Chiltern forward.

The Mk5s, if indeed they end up going to Chiltern (or whatever other suitable stock is identified) are needed ASAP and are due to arrive this year. As for battery units as specified in the document, there are no such units currently in service in the UK with the required capabilities and there is no current plan in place for electrification. I very much doubt any such plans will have been drawn up let alone put in place by 2036.

 

[Energy]

It will be one or the other, Battery-Electric or Low Emissions (including Hybrid units) depending on various factors. £6m per vehicle seems exorbitant, three times the cost of most new passenger vehicles recently built.

£400m is for 30-70 units and the associated depot works. If the entire fleet was replaced then 70x3 car = 210 cars, about £2m per vehicle which is more reasonable.

As for battery units as specified in the document, there are no such units currently in service in the UK with the required capabilities and there is no current plan in place for electrification.

Indeed, though a battery version of an existing EMU wouldn't be impossible.

Electrification is unclear, currently the metric which matters on MML electrification is cost per mile, with total cost being less of an issue.

 

[12LDA28C]

£400m is for 30-70 units and the associated depot works. If the entire fleet was replaced then 70x3 car = 210 cars, about £2m per vehicle which is more reasonable.

Indeed, that's more like it. Hopefully that will include proper covered maintenance facilities at Banbury, amongst other enhancements.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, though a battery version of an existing EMU wouldn't be impossible.

I wouldn't bet against it going to Alstom as a means of saving Derby.

 

[Mikey C]

£400m is for 30-70 units and the associated depot works. If the entire fleet was replaced then 70x3 car = 210 cars, about £2m per vehicle which is more reasonable.

Indeed, though a battery version of an existing EMU wouldn't be impossible.

Electrification is unclear, currently the metric which matters on MML electrification is cost per mile, with total cost being less of an issue.

Part electrification will have to happen at some point, and within the 30+ years life of these trains. You can't run on batteries from Marylebone to Birmingham on batteries alone. and diesels won't be allowed forever, especially on a route operating into 2 major city centres at either end.

 

[Thirteen]

Alstom is working on a BEMU for Irish Rail which could be an option but I'm not sure it can do long distances like Marylebone to Birmingham.

 

[anthony263]

Alstom is working on a BEMU for Irish Rail which could be an option but I'm not sure it can do long distances like Marylebone to Birmingham.

What about Marylebone to Harrow on the hill ? And Amersham to Aylesbury parkway?

 

[Class172]

Alstom is working on a BEMU for Irish Rail which could be an option but I'm not sure it can do long distances like Marylebone to Birmingham.

That need not necessarily be an issue, as I think this tender is aimed more at the suburban services such as Marylebone-Aylesbury.

 

[Thirteen]

That need not necessarily be an issue, as I think this tender is aimed more at the suburban services such as Marylebone-Aylesbury.

If that is the case then the BEMU from Alstom would be more than enough for Chiltern.

 

[Mikey C]

That need not necessarily be an issue, as I think this tender is aimed more at the suburban services such as Marylebone-Aylesbury.

Does the Underground have enough spare "juice" to allow the Chiltern trains to use the 4th rail on the shared sections, and even charge the batteries?

 

[Trainbike46]

If not, power supplies can be upgraded

Does the Underground have enough spare "juice" to allow the Chiltern trains to use the 4th rail on the shared sections, and even charge the batteries?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If that is the case then the BEMU from Alstom would be more than enough for Chiltern.

The new DART BEMUs will have a range on battery of 80km, and a maximum speed of 145 km/h (90mph).

Electrified DART+ plan moves a step closer

Iarnród Éireann's plan to introduce battery and electric-operated trains for the greater Dublin region in place of its current diesel train stock is edging a step closer.

www.rte.ie

In September, the first two trains will be shipped to Ireland and will undergo testing before becoming operational in late 2025 on an expanded DART+ line from Dublin to Drogheda.
The trains are being manufactured by French firm Alstom at its factory in Katowice in southern Poland.
In total, Iarnród Éireann has ordered 37 new trains for the greater Dublin area, which will serve its DART+ expansion on lines to Maynooth, Drogheda and Hazelhatch over the next few years.
Each will carry 550 passengers and include spaces for wheelchairs, families and bicycles.
The trains at the production depot in Katowice are powered by lithium batteries which travel up to 80km before needing to be recharged.

 

[Snow1964]

DfT has updated its procurement pipeline 10th May

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

I have extracted the latest data for Chiltern

Chiltern has 2 alternative tenders

Reference Number : 26867
Contract Title : New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways
Short Description : Supply of between 30 and 70 new battery electric multiple units (BEMU), and associated maintenance, infrastructure and depot upgrade services.
Commercial Strategy : Re-Procurement (different scope)
Existing Contract End Date 01/12/2027
Existing Contract : Angel Trains
Existing Contract Reference Number : MOLA/CHIL/21-16
Estimated Procurement Start Date 9/26/2022
Estimated Contract Commencement Date 09/01/2025
Estimated Contract Value £400,000,000
Planned Procurement Sourcing Route (level of competition) : Negotiated procedure/Competitive tender
Existing Supplier : Angel Trains


Reference Number 26896
Contract Title Low Emissions Rolling Stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways
Short Description : Supply of between 30 and 70 new or converted 'Low Emissions' rolling stock multiple units, and associated maintenance, infrastructure and depot upgrade services.
Commercial Strategy : Re-Procurement (different scope)
Existing Contract End Date 01/12/2027
Existing Contract : Angel Trains
Existing Contract Reference Number : MOLA/CHIL/21-16
Estimated Procurement Start Date 08/07/2023
Estimated Contract Commencement Date 09/01/2025
Estimated Contract Value £400,000,000
Planned Procurement Sourcing Route (level of competition) : Negotiated procedure/Competitive tender
Existing Supplier : Angel Trains

 

[12LDA28C]

DfT has updated its procurement pipeline 10th May

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

I have extracted the latest data for Chiltern

Chiltern has 2 alternative tenders

Reference Number : 26867
Contract Title : New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways
Short Description : Supply of between 30 and 70 new battery electric multiple units (BEMU), and associated maintenance, infrastructure and depot upgrade services.
Commercial Strategy : Re-Procurement (different scope)
Existing Contract End Date 01/12/2027
Existing Contract : Angel Trains
Existing Contract Reference Number : MOLA/CHIL/21-16
Estimated Procurement Start Date 9/26/2022
Estimated Contract Commencement Date 09/01/2025
Estimated Contract Value £400,000,000
Planned Procurement Sourcing Route (level of competition) : Negotiated procedure/Competitive tender
Existing Supplier : Angel Trains


Reference Number 26896
Contract Title Low Emissions Rolling Stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways
Short Description : Supply of between 30 and 70 new or converted 'Low Emissions' rolling stock multiple units, and associated maintenance, infrastructure and depot upgrade services.
Commercial Strategy : Re-Procurement (different scope)
Existing Contract End Date 01/12/2027
Existing Contract : Angel Trains
Existing Contract Reference Number : MOLA/CHIL/21-16
Estimated Procurement Start Date 08/07/2023
Estimated Contract Commencement Date 09/01/2025
Estimated Contract Value £400,000,000
Planned Procurement Sourcing Route (level of competition) : Negotiated procedure/Competitive tender
Existing Supplier : Angel Trains

So what has changed since this document was published previously and posted on this forum on May 1st in post #71?