12LDA28C
Established Member
Yes, two separate tenders have been issued.
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Chiltern tender for 20 - 70 units
- Thread starter Snow1964
- Start date
Yes, two separate tenders have been issued.
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Looks like the "new" option for Chiltern stock has been removed - now for 20-70 existing vehicles.
www.railwaygazette.com
The word "tender" is bandied about in this thread, but this is an invitation for rolling stock owners to make fleet proposals to Chiltern prior to them selecting a partner.
The off-lease ex-TPE Mk5 and ex-TfW 175 fleets are noted as broadly fitting the Chiltern spec.
There are 65 Mk5 vehicles (13x5 car), and the class 175 fleet is also 65 vehicles (11x3 car plus 16x2 car), assuming no withdrawals.
Lower noise emissions than the current Chiltern class 68 fleet are required.
Chiltern Railways seeks fleet proposals
UK: Chiltern Railways has invited proposals from established rolling stock owners for the lease and maintenance of between 25 and 70 existing vehicles to operate inter-city and regional services on the Chiltern Main Line between London Marylebone and Birmingham. The operator is seeking either...
www.railwaygazette.com
The word "tender" is bandied about in this thread, but this is an invitation for rolling stock owners to make fleet proposals to Chiltern prior to them selecting a partner.
The off-lease ex-TPE Mk5 and ex-TfW 175 fleets are noted as broadly fitting the Chiltern spec.
There are 65 Mk5 vehicles (13x5 car), and the class 175 fleet is also 65 vehicles (11x3 car plus 16x2 car), assuming no withdrawals.
Lower noise emissions than the current Chiltern class 68 fleet are required.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
New was only for the 165 replacement tender, which is separate.
Snow1964
Established Member
The Government has updated manufacturers
Chiltern
20-70 units,
nominally 90 vehicles
Award date Early 2025
Chiltern
20-70 units,
nominally 90 vehicles
Award date Early 2025
Speed43125
Member
Seems a difficult number for any one existing diesel fleet to match. 'Converted' is also a slightly curious word to use, given the document was going on about 'refurbishing' Voyagers and Pendolinos prior to that; no clue what if anything that might imply though.
More generally, with the message of that document, I can't help but think, despite what is said in the document about essentially avoiding a post-privatisation style drought of orders, all of these procurements are indicative of a building window in the latter parts of the decade, which isn't exactly a comfort for Derby who have ran out of work now, or Newton Aycliffe which is also getting to the end of its orderbook.
Just to clarify something; Chiltern's three "Opportunity" notices have all been for one group of trains, up to 70 in number. They sought options for all "existing or converted" battery-electric trains, all new battery-electric trains, and "new or converted low emission" trains, to be quieter and cleaner than their existing trains.
They reserve the right to buy a mix from those options. But it's all for one new-to-Chiltern fleet.
TH172341
Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 394
On a related note to this, is there any update in regards to any Class 168 refurbishment / refresh?
CR165022
Member
The first one, 168003, is due back within the next few weeks.
TH172341
Member
- Joined
- 22 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 394
Great news, thank you.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Indeed, due back at Chiltern in June and the refresh has been quite extensive, both inside and outside.
Snow1964
Established Member
The DfT have published a new pipeline of contracts spreadsheet (actually a csv file) see lines 20-21
Now described as New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways.
The second one is Low Emissions Rolling stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways
Both now showing as estimated 9th January 2025
Both showing as estimated value £400,000,000
(nearly £6m per vehicle if 70 vehicles)
www.gov.uk
Now described as New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways.
The second one is Low Emissions Rolling stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways
Both now showing as estimated 9th January 2025
Both showing as estimated value £400,000,000
(nearly £6m per vehicle if 70 vehicles)
Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners
Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.
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12LDA28C
Established Member
No, the Mk5s are part of a separate procurement of cascaded stock which is due to come to fruition this year.
The procurement of existing vehicles ended on the 2nd February 2024. It's unclear whether there has been an award for this is not.
If this procurement goes ahead the fleet would expect to remain at Chiltern till at least 2036, so I'd expect the DfT to be weighing up an existing fleet (Mk5As) versus battery units and pushing electrification of part of Chiltern forward.
Thank you for clarification.
12LDA28C
Established Member
The DfT have published a new pipeline of contracts spreadsheet (actually a csv file) see lines 20-21
Now described as New Battery-Electric Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways.
The second one is Low Emissions Rolling stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways
Both now showing as estimated 9th January 2025
Both showing as estimated value £400,000,000
(nearly £6m per vehicle if 70 vehicles)
Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners
Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.
It will be one or the other, Battery-Electric or Low Emissions (including Hybrid units) depending on various factors. £6m per vehicle seems exorbitant, three times the cost of most new passenger vehicles recently built.
The Mk5s, if indeed they end up going to Chiltern (or whatever other suitable stock is identified) are needed ASAP and are due to arrive this year. As for battery units as specified in the document, there are no such units currently in service in the UK with the required capabilities and there is no current plan in place for electrification. I very much doubt any such plans will have been drawn up let alone put in place by 2036.
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£400m is for 30-70 units and the associated depot works. If the entire fleet was replaced then 70x3 car = 210 cars, about £2m per vehicle which is more reasonable.
Indeed, though a battery version of an existing EMU wouldn't be impossible.
Electrification is unclear, currently the metric which matters on MML electrification is cost per mile, with total cost being less of an issue.
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12LDA28C
Established Member
Indeed, that's more like it. Hopefully that will include proper covered maintenance facilities at Banbury, amongst other enhancements.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wouldn't bet against it going to Alstom as a means of saving Derby.
Mikey C
Established Member
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- 11 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 6,869
Part electrification will have to happen at some point, and within the 30+ years life of these trains. You can't run on batteries from Marylebone to Birmingham on batteries alone. and diesels won't be allowed forever, especially on a route operating into 2 major city centres at either end.
anthony263
Established Member
What about Marylebone to Harrow on the hill ? And Amersham to Aylesbury parkway?
That need not necessarily be an issue, as I think this tender is aimed more at the suburban services such as Marylebone-Aylesbury.
If that is the case then the BEMU from Alstom would be more than enough for Chiltern.
Mikey C
Established Member
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- 11 Feb 2013
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- 6,869
Does the Underground have enough spare "juice" to allow the Chiltern trains to use the 4th rail on the shared sections, and even charge the batteries?
Trainbike46
Established Member
If not, power supplies can be upgraded
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
The new DART BEMUs will have a range on battery of 80km, and a maximum speed of 145 km/h (90mph).
Electrified DART+ plan moves a step closer
Iarnród Éireann's plan to introduce battery and electric-operated trains for the greater Dublin region in place of its current diesel train stock is edging a step closer.