Class 195 depot allocations.

[507021]

Hi all,

I apologise if this has already been mentioned elsewhere, but I was wondering if anyone could if confirm the allocations of the Class 195s? I'm guessing Allerton and Neville Hill, but any confirmation would be appreciated.

The International Railway Journal states the new EMUs will be based at Allerton, but based on what was said afterwards, this could be 331/0s and/or 331/1s. I'm a bit confused if I'm honest!

Thanks, and once again, apologies if it's already been mentioned elsewhere.

 

[coxxy]

Newton upon Heath. They've already started doing work on the depot to accommodate he new units ie extending the fuel apron and believe a new shed is also being built.

 

[Bungle965]

All the 195s are apparently to be allocated to Newton Heath, the 331 4 cars to Allerton, and an unspecified split of the 331 3 cars between Allerton and Neville Hill.
Sam

 

[jonesy3001]

i take it none are staying longsight for the manchester runs?

 

[sprinterguy]

i take it none are staying longsight for the manchester runs?

Why would they need to utilise a second Manchester depot (Correct me, anyone, if I'm wrong) when their main base will already be Newton Heath?

 

[Viscount702]

This is the 195 thread but the post is I believe about the 331s.

I do find it odd the 331s will be based at Allerton when in fact none of the class will be used anywhere near Liverpool they will all be on Services in and around Manchester or out of Leeds and will replace among other things 323s which are based at Longsight. There was talk of a new Depot at Guide Bridge at one stage

 

[Domh245]

Lonsight is an Alstom depot, and I don't think that Alstom have been contracted to do the maintenance on the 331s (although they are doing it for the TPE 397s) - Allerton is a Northern electric depot, and so is the logical place to do all the heavy maintenance on them. As mentioned above, only a portion of the fleet are being based there, with the other portion presumably being based at Neville Hill.

 

[coxxy]

Doubt they would use longsight.. with Alston taking not an TPE contract I doubt there would be space to be honest.. plus they also currently maintain the 323's (still don't know for certain what's happening with them). There is a small amount of space at Stockport for electric units and as someone above said the possibility of a depot near guide bridge (although I've heard nothing more on this for a while).

 

[FordFocus]

Alstom Longsight are known for been expensive to third party TOCs and equipment. Northern for a long time avoided stabling anything on Longsight during the day.

 

[Mollman]

If all the 195s are allocated to Newton Heath, does that mean the Connect services which stay east of the Pennines (e.g. Scarborough - Sheffield) will remain worked by 158s?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If all the 195s are allocated to Newton Heath, does that mean the Connect services which stay east of the Pennines (e.g. Scarborough - Sheffield) will remain worked by 158s?

Not necessarily. Though the 195s may have Newton Heath as their "home" depot, they won't need to go back there every night or even every other night. Things like fuelling, tanking etc. will be able to be done at other locations. It wouldn't surprise me if other light servicing and maintenance can be done at Neville Hill too.

The Northern Connect services that DO cross the Pennines will provide a way of returning the 195s to Newton Heath when needed. We may see for example an early morning Connect service running down the Calder Valley as a 6-car 195, which then splits at Bradford or Leeds with 3 staying on the Valley while the other 3 does a Nottingham or Lincoln run.

 

[507021]

Thanks for your contributions, all.

Admittedly, I was half asleep and forgot to add "Class 331" to the thread title!

 

[gorilladan]

If all the 195s are allocated to Newton Heath, does that mean the Connect services which stay east of the Pennines (e.g. Scarborough - Sheffield) will remain worked by 158s?

The new King St stabling depot at Blackburn has 6 roads (2 of which are fuel/hydrostatic oil/c.e.t etc equipped), all of suitable length to take up to 5 carriages of 195 or 158. The depot is compact and bijou but It'll be great for its intended stabling tasks. It will however take a bit of careful planning to ensure right unit sequence order coming on/off when it's full to capacity. Relatively light maintenance tasks can be performed by the fitters on-site such as brake blocks, hose replacement etc. Anything heavy being done at Newton Heath. Currently, only Blackburn drivers sign King st, many of these drivers don't sign 158's but plans are afoot. It's my understanding that come the May '18 timetable, the last train from Leeds will terminate at Blackburn, I suspect it will probably be stabled at King st depot but this has not been confirmed yet.

 

[whhistle]

Still think they're making a mistake with 2-car trains; they should all be 3-car for future growth.
Coupling up is not a solution in my opinion.

 

[55z]

There are no Scarborough to Sheffied services in the plan. Hull to Sheffield will be Connect services. The May 2018 plan show an hourly Scarborough to Hull service with a Bridlington to Sheffield service hourly.

 

[driver_m]

Still think they're making a mistake with 2-car trains; they should all be 3-car for future growth.
Coupling up is not a solution in my opinion.

Why? Works well for us on VT. Services that couldn't never be justified with 9-11 car sets are viable with a 5 car portion worked train. No different for Northern.

 

[whhistle]

Why? Works well for us on VT. Services that couldn't never be justified with 9-11 car sets are viable with a 5 car portion worked train. No different for Northern.

If the service is using a 5-car unit, great.
But if it's nearly constantly doubled up, surely the real answer is to use a bigger through train. The old argument of two train managers, two catering comes back in. Unless you have the TM on the rear portion only, which then is still a loss for revenue.

I can imagine many of these 2-car northern services could easily have a 3rd car added and it wouldn't be a huge cost, when in X number of years, they'll just be running the two sets coupled anyway.

 

[IanXC]

If the service is using a 5-car unit, great.
But if it's nearly constantly doubled up, surely the real answer is to use a bigger through train. The old argument of two train managers, two catering comes back in. Unless you have the TM on the rear portion only, which then is still a loss for revenue.

I can imagine many of these 2-car northern services could easily have a 3rd car added and it wouldn't be a huge cost, when in X number of years, they'll just be running the two sets coupled anyway.

You may wish to optimistically take a look in the 195/331 threads where mention of options for further vehicles has been made.

In the meantime this thread is purely about depot allocations (and I suppose stabling at a push)...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why? Works well for us on VT. Services that couldn't never be justified with 9-11 car sets are viable with a 5 car portion worked train. No different for Northern.

Works for ex-LM as well. Would have been better if Northern had specified gangways for this, though, making the staffing issue less of an issue (though it is not against national rules to have a completely unstaffed unit; this occurs on all the DOO operations that run in multiple).

 

[170401]

Unless you have the TM on the rear portion only, which then is still a loss for revenue.

Why does the TM have to be in the rear portion only?

 

[Mollman]

There are no Scarborough to Sheffied services in the plan. Hull to Sheffield will be Connect services. The May 2018 plan show an hourly Scarborough to Hull service with a Bridlington to Sheffield service hourly.

Oh I do apologies. It keeps changing, I do remember the original plan was to cut the Wolds Coast - Sheffield service back to Hull and run a Brid - Leeds services. However I recalling seeing a document which stated that that would no longer happen.