Class 221 for Grand Central

[QSK19]

I would suggest the only future for 180s are: preservation on a heritage railway that has enough track to take advantage of such a train […].

That’s not a bad shout. Or preserve one at the National Railway Museum.

Much like steam trains are a symbol of how the railways used to be - and I think we even have Pacer presence on heritage railway! - the 180s would be an example of how IC travel used to be on DMUs once diesel has been completely removed from the railway.

 

[357]

That’s not a bad shout. Or preserve one at the National Railway Museum.

Much like steam trains are a symbol of how the railways used to be - and I think we even have Pacer presence on heritage railway! - the 180s would be an example of how IC travel used to be on DMUs once diesel has been completely removed from the railway.

I think a Voyager would be a better representation than a 180?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd be really interested to know if there's been any customer feedback from regular GC travellers about the new (to them) type of train they've travelled on lately.

 

[QSK19]

I think a Voyager would be a better representation than a 180?

Agreed; however the person I was replying to stated a 180. But yes, some form of D(E)MU - 180, 221 or otherwise - would be good to have on heritage railways given that it’s been the backbone of railway operations for decades.

 

[D6975]

How short can a fully functioning 180 be? I know they've run as 4 car sets in the past, but is there anything to stop a 2 car set from operating?

 

[m79900]

How short can a fully functioning 180 be? I know they've run as 4 car sets in the past, but is there anything to stop a 2 car set from operating?

I can't believe we've got to a point where people are talking about preservation of 180s! I suppose it could teach tomorrows youth about 'meme' culture in the past. ''You'll be going nowhere!''

 

[occone]

I'd say 180s are more interesting as they have hydraulic transmission, and the entire FGW turnaround was meant to be off the back of them. They were almost an experiment in the age of privatisation and the new millennium to redefine how travel should be, from the point of view of a private operator.

And indeed, there are the notorious videos online about them with almost a cult following - which was not done with the Voyagers.
Sidenote: there *is* a Midland Mainline 222 video, but somehow 222s feel too grown up to be Voyagers even if they're in the same family. It's the gimmicky tilted profile ones that steal the Voyager show.

 

[D365]

I can't believe we've got to a point where people are talking about preservation of 180s! I suppose it could teach tomorrows youth about 'meme' culture in the past. ''You'll be going nowhere!''

That's about the only 'feature' of note that I am aware of on a Class 180.

 

[mike57]

If they preserve a 180 then it can be brought out every 5th November...

 

[Wyrleybart]

That’s not a bad shout. Or preserve one at the National Railway Museum.

Much like steam trains are a symbol of how the railways used to be - and I think we even have Pacer presence on heritage railway! - the 180s would be an example of how IC travel used to be on DMUs once diesel has been completely removed from the railway.

I disagree. The best future for the 180s is either at Rotherham or Newport. I may be wrong but AIUI GCR have eleven of the fourteen class 180s, as well as the two ex Avanti 221s to operate 7 diagrams. So they have nearly two units for each diagram. Does that tell you all you need to know ?

 

[QSK19]

I disagree. The best future for the 180s is either at Rotherham or Newport. I may be wrong but AIUI GCR have eleven of the fourteen class 180s, as well as the two ex Avanti 221s to operate 7 diagrams. So they have nearly two units for each diagram. Does that tell you all you need to know ?

As I said in post 694, the person whom I was responding to mentioned 180s. I have stated that it would be a good idea to keep a D(E)MU IC unit, 180, 221 or otherwise.

Anyway, this is getting wildly off topic; so let’s get the train back on the tracks

I can't believe we've got to a point where people are talking about preservation of 180s!

As above.

 

[Cowley]

Enough of the preservating of class 180s please!

 

[Gonzalez]

I think EMR even had a few cancellations when their services (select Nottingham services) were covered by 180s instead of 222s...

Given that any TOC would be barmy to take these on, I would suggest the only future for 180s are: preservation on a heritage railway that has enough track to take advantage of such a train (unlikely), or scrap at some scrapyard (highly likely).

Aren't GWR in need of more trains, having struggled through in the western region since the HSTs were being phased out, despite having a few spares available? Considering it's whole fleet size and the lines being "not as fast", i'd say it's not too implausible.

 

[JonathanH]

Aren't GWR in need of more trains, having struggled through in the western region since the HSTs were being phased out, despite having a few spares available?

Whether they are in need of more trains or not, they have to a) receive funding to get them and b) need to feel they would be reliable to operate.

 

[GoneSouth]

Aren't GWR in need of more trains,

But that would be like buying something from eBay again 15 years after selling it there yourself because it didn’t work properly in the first place. Don’t think they’ll be heading back home to the West Country

 

[Wolfie]

If they preserve a 180 then it can be brought out every 5th November...

Bitchy, lol....

Enough of the preservating of class 180s please!

Not a fan, prefer them to go straight to the scrappie huh....

But that would be like buying something from eBay again 15 years after selling it there yourself because it didn’t work properly in the first place. Don’t think they’ll be heading back home to the West Country

Indeed. What could possibly go wrong with reacquiring an aging fleet notorious for unreliability that you got rid of for exactly that reason over a decade ago?

Edited to add: Sorry if l am one of the guilty ones @yorkie but l couldn't resist. No more l promise!

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for updates regarding what is actually happening (or officially planned to happen); any speculation regarding what might, could or should happen can be posted in Speculative Discussion please.

Many thanks

 

[ModernRailways]

Bringing this back on topic, the Voyagers were seen operating to/from York, but have they ventured further north at any point yet (as Grand Central of course, not XC)?

 

[Driver068]

Bringing this back on topic, the Voyagers were seen operating to/from York, but have they ventured further north at any point yet (as Grand Central of course, not XC)?

No, Sunderland Drivers dont sign 221s and Bradford Drivers dont sign North of York. Any 221s in York may be down to disrubtion of sorts.

 

[trainswitheddy]

I think EMR even had a few cancellations when their services (select Nottingham services) were covered by 180s instead of 222s...

Given that any TOC would be barmy to take these on, I would suggest the only future for 180s are: preservation on a heritage railway that has enough track to take advantage of such a train (unlikely), or scrap at some scrapyard (highly likely).

Yes, true. I suppose time will tell! I will oddly miss seeing them if they do end up going.

Speaking of, when is the 1 year 221 lease due to end? I believe it began in July or is that incorrect?

 

[TheBigD]

Tonight's 1627 Kings Cross to Bradford terminated at Peterborough after sitting just south of there for half an hour. 180105 the culprit.
Other service were able to work around it and go slow line and through platforms 4 and 5 at Peterborough.

 

[spotify95]

Tonight's 1627 Kings Cross to Bradford terminated at Peterborough after sitting just south of there for half an hour. 180105 the culprit.
Other service were able to work around it and go slow line and through platforms 4 and 5 at Peterborough.

Oh dear... it really is time for GC to get rid of these 180s. Hopefully they can get a small fleet of 80x soon, though in terms of reliability, even 221s would be better.

 

[greyman42]

Oh dear... it really is time for GC to get rid of these 180s. Hopefully they can get a small fleet of 80x soon, though in terms of reliability, even 221s would be better.

The 1329 Sunderland to Kings Cross only made it as far as York where it was cancelled. RTT states train fault.

 

[dk1]

Oh dear... it really is time for GC to get rid of these 180s. Hopefully they can get a small fleet of 80x soon, though in terms of reliability, even 221s would be better.

Trouble is any new build is likely to be years away. The 221/222s would be the best option all round I feel.

 

[skyhigh]

Hopefully they can get a small fleet of 80x soon

No chance. From what's been said by Tony Miles Hitachi are now looking for mega bucks for any new orders.

 

[spotify95]

Trouble is any new build is likely to be years away. The 221/222s would be the best option all round I feel.

If GC wanted a sizeable fleet, probably 222s, as they will soon be coming off EMR when they get 810s.
Or more 221s, with other operators then taking on EMR 222s.

I'm not a huge fan of any 22x but they are better than a train which breaks down and is canceled mid journey.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No chance. From what's been said by Tony Miles Hitachi are now looking for mega bucks for any new orders.

They'll shoot themselves in the foot then, because once 807 and 810 are wrapped up they won't have any new orders.

 

[D365]

They'll shoot themselves in the foot then, because once 807 and 810 are wrapped up they won't have any new orders.

what’s your source?

 

[Mzzzs]

Grand central's agreement runs out in 2026
no point in getting new trains until they have that extended

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

what’s your source?

Your sharp wit is unparalleled

I'll reword it, shall I?
I'm not aware of any other UK orders for Hitachi other than those we all obviously know of which are being delivered for AWC and EMR, so if they put their prices up I strongly infer that TOCs will be somewhat disincentivised from ordering from them over another manufacturer. Highly-publicised poor build quality issues AND a cheeky asking price don't bode well.