Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[Dstock7080]

Cheers, I was wondering where 002 had ended up over the pond.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That livery really suits it!

 

[wobman]

There's still reliability problems with the TFW 230's, it's an ongoing issue with these.
230006 like all 230's have to travel for fuel to Chester, it's another ongoing issue with these units.

 

[DavidGrain]

Cheers, I was wondering where 002 had ended up over the pond.

Last heard of in the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum but that is only a temporary home for it. The plan is for it to operate 'pop-up' metros to demonstrate its use on freight lines in American cities. All I can say is good luck to them as otherwise I don't see a future for all those D Stock trains. Including both the class 230s and the class 484s Viva has only sold 13 trains so far.
EDIT I had not seen the above video before writing this reply.

 

[8H]

230 Seen at Neston station early afternoon today heading toward Wrexham

 

[Bob Price]

Is driver training back on? Hopefully in time for introduction later this year.

 

[wobman]

Is driver training back on? Hopefully in time for introduction later this year.

I admire your optimism

Driver training is planning on restarting from Monday, the plan is to give the drivers already trained on them traction refreshers aswell the new drivers training as it's been so long since they signed off the 230's.

006 was at Chester for refueling this week, but no sign of 110 arriving yet !

Let's see how things go

 

[D821]

Are the 230s going to be based out of Birkenhead North or are they just there temporarily?
Couldn't see any of them there this morning, they've seemingly not moved for a few weeks up until this week.

 

[Bob Price]

Plans are to build a dedicated depot at Wrexham (?) if I recall rightly. Birkenhead will need space for the 777's.

 

[PHILIPE]

Plans are to build a dedicated depot at Wrexham (?) if I recall rightly. Birkenhead will need space for the 777's.

That's gone all quiet as it might not be worth it as the 230s should be replaced eventually. They will not required to be at Birkenhead as there would be a couple stabled overnight at Chester (for fuelling) or in the Bay at Wrexham.

 

[wobman]

The 230's initial plan is to be based at Birkenhead North Stadler depot, with all fueling at Chester. This involves taxi work for Chester traincrew each morning and evening, there's no plan for a depot at Wrexham due to there being no room for fueling facilities and fork lift access for heavy maintenance.

The longer term plan is for a purpose built depot based at Dee marsh with fueling facilities and heavy maintenance facility.
No timescales on this yet though.

The 230's are out and about this week with traincrew training and trips to Chester for fueling, when they are working.....

 

[wobman]

Plans are to build a dedicated depot at Wrexham (?) if I recall rightly. Birkenhead will need space for the 777's.

They plan kirkdale as the main depot for maintenance and Birkenhead for light maintenance and stabling units.
That's why Stadler agreed to let TFW use the depot, but I wonder how long that will last as the full amount of 777 units arrive and it gets busy at Birkenhead !

 

[Bob Price]

I guess if Merseyrail do enact their plans to run to Wrexham with battery 777's then the 230's could be gone in a few years.

 

[PHILIPE]

I guess if Merseyrail do enact their plans to run to Wrexham with battery 777's then the 230's could be gone in a few years.

The 230s will not last for ever

 

[Eccles1983]

The 230's cannot be stabled at Chester when the 197's start arriving. When they all arrive then there isn't enough room for them

It's unworkable.

 

[wobman]

I guess if Merseyrail do enact their plans to run to Wrexham with battery 777's then the 230's could be gone in a few years.

The battery 777 units from Bidston to Wrexham will be far more challenging than merseyrail anticipate, it's proven very challenging for the 230's.
It's a line with steep gradients and 15 stops in each direction, it will be interesting to see them testing the 777 units on the line

 

[CaergwrleKen]

The 230's cannot be stabled at Chester when the 197's start arriving. When they all arrive then there isn't enough room for them

It's unworkable.

What makes you think there’s room at Chester for the 197s? Never mind 230s.

 

[Eccles1983]

What makes you think there’s room at Chester for the 197s? Never mind 230s.

My point exactly.

I know how many are meant to be stabled at Chester. It's complete fantasy without a lot of work taking place, which if happening should of started 6-8 months ago.

It will be interesting to see when the penny drops.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The 230s will not last for ever

I know they were originally for the Blaenau branch and the Crewe shuttle as well as the Borderlands originally, but were they only ever a stopgap until the 197s were in service ?
Can't keep up with TfW's policy changes

 

[Zontar]

I can't see any TOC rushing to the opportunity to take on that service. IIRC it's part funded by local council and runs at a loss.

 

[tomuk]

I know they were originally for the Blaenau branch and the Crewe shuttle as well as the Borderlands originally, but were they only ever a stopgap until the 197s were in service ?
Can't keep up with TfW's policy changes

The original plan was as you say Blaenau, Borderlands and Crewe Shuttle. But they were going to up the frequency on the Borderlands after the 197s arrived and were available to cover the other routes. Overall they were a stopgap until Merseyrail takeover.
Similar to the 170s - Maesteg-Cheltenham to begin with then West Wales/HOWL after the 197s arrive. But as you say plans change. If the 230s don't get any better and the 197s settle down I can see them going in the bin with no need for a dedicated depot.

 

[krus_aragon]

I know they were originally for the Blaenau branch and the Crewe shuttle as well as the Borderlands originally, but were they only ever a stopgap until the 197s were in service ?
Can't keep up with TfW's policy changes

Purely a stopgap. It was a case of "where could we use these extra 230s until we increase the Borderlands frequency", while waiting for the 197s to arrive. As stated, sliding timescales for the rolling stock resulted in several revisions to the plan.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Purely a stopgap. It was a case of "where could we use these extra 230s until we increase the Borderlands frequency", while waiting for the 197s to arrive. As stated, sliding timescales for the rolling stock resulted in several revisions to the plan.

Exactly this. The 230's were ordered specificly for the Bidstons. The talk of Blaenau and Crewe was only ever a thing because IF they had been delivered on time, TFW would have had three spare 230's doing nothing. There was pressure for all the 150's to go down south for Valley Line services, so their use on the Crewe and Branch would have released another two 150's. But seen as the 230's are almost 2yrs late from entering service, neither will happen.

 

[wobman]

I know they were originally for the Blaenau branch and the Crewe shuttle as well as the Borderlands originally, but were they only ever a stopgap until the 197s were in service ?
Can't keep up with TfW's policy changes

I like the fact TFW are willing to change plans and I'm hoping they keep this up, sometimes is it worth plowing on with a failing project regardless of cost I do ask myself.

One good aspect of TFW willing to change their plans is the purchasing of the GC mk4's, that frees up 197's for other routes maybe.

 

[wobman]

Exactly this. The 230's were ordered specificly for the Bidstons. The talk of Blaenau and Crewe was only ever a thing because IF they had been delivered on time, TFW would have had three spare 230's doing nothing. There was pressure for all the 150's to go down south for Valley Line services, so their use on the Crewe and Branch would have released another two 150's. But seen as the 230's are almost 2yrs late from entering service, neither will happen.

TFW still haven't received 230110 yet from the initial order, I wonder if that will arrive soon if the December start date happens

 

[DannyMich2018]

TFW still haven't received 230110 yet from the initial order, I wonder if that will arrive soon if the December start date happens

I think by the time the 230s finally enters service the replacement will only be a year or two max behind, all this time, money and effort etc on just 5 trains which may only have 2 years use!? Look how long it took for them to enter service on the short Bletchley-Bedford line and those aren't exactly pushed at the min as buses are used on half services with only one 230 used at a time.

 

[wobman]

I think by the time the 230s finally enters service the replacement will only be a year or two max behind, all this time, money and effort etc on just 5 trains which may only have 2 years use!? Look how long it took for them to enter service on the short Bletchley-Bedford line and those aren't exactly pushed at the min as buses are used on half services with only one 230 used at a time.

The last plan was to have 1x 230 running and 1x 150 on the borderlands line, that may be the sensible option incase there are reliability issues.

Plus there won't be enough drivers trained by December to have a full 230 service on the line, I think 1 X 230 may be at Wrexham as a standby unit for recovery if it breakdown. Then there's the daily 230 travelling to Chester for fueling every day, it all depends if they actually start in service in December though.

 

[Bob Price]

If TfW have 230's working on the Borderlands then they will be last on the list for replacement. The 197's are needed to get the 150's and 153's off long distance services and that will be their priority. Remembering the 197's are now heading west and it will be a year or so until the Mk4's start on the Swansea to Manchester, I think the 230's will be around for a few years yet.

 

[wobman]

If TfW have 230's working on the Borderlands then they will be last on the list for replacement. The 197's are needed to get the 150's and 153's off long distance services and that will be their priority. Remembering the 197's are now heading west and it will be a year or so until the Mk4's start on the Swansea to Manchester, I think the 230's will be around for a few years yet.

The plan is for the 230's to last a few years, they are already over 2 years late and counting.

 

[Woods]

All the TfW units including 230010 have been accepted by TfW and have achieved their contractual fault free mileage. 230010 is stored at Long Marston at the behest of TfW because there isn’t enough room at Birkenhead North. Maintenance is currently being carried out by Vivarail on an ad-hoc arrangement. The original plan was for a dedicated depot but it is disorganisation on the part of TfW which is the only reason why the units haven’t yet been put into passenger service. Vivarail had all the units ready for service around a year ago as well as a team poised to maintain them. There is a lot of ill-informed speculation on here.

There's still reliability problems with the TFW 230's, it's an ongoing issue with these.
230006 like all 230's have to travel for fuel to Chester, it's another ongoing issue with these units.

With the units effectively in warm storage pending the emergence of a workable maintenance strategy from TfW, it is no surprise that their sporadic usage has led to ‘reliability’ issues. Machines need to be used. Had TfW followed through with the original plan to provide a proper maintenance facility and let Vivarail undertake the maintenance with their own team, I am sure the units would have been settling in by now.