Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[PHILIPE]

This move looks promising:-

Realtime Trains - 519Z 1432 Long Marston to Wrexham General

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Could be 23006

 

[rich.davies]

This move looks promising:-

Realtime Trains - 519Z 1432 Long Marston to Wrexham General

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Could be 23006

This is the next movement for the above train.

Realtime Trains - 589Z 1030 Wrexham General to Birkenhead North E.M.U.D

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Shown as departing Wrexham at 10.30 and heading to Birkenhead.

 

[EngFocus]

Well this has come as somewhat of a surprise, will be watching very close tomorrow.

 

[Bob Price]

I would guess it's a network rail testing machine or a tamper but there is railcam at Shrewsbury so I will take a look if I remember

 

[Bob Price]

What I can tell you is it is a Rail Operations Group move and it has been activated. Could be interesting

 

[Bob Price]

It was due off Long Marston at 14.30 but hasn't shown up on the diagrams. Would guess it's cancelled for today.

 

[PHILIPE]

It was due off Long Marston at 14.30 but hasn't shown up on the diagrams. Would guess it's cancelled for today.

It is. Reason unknown.

 

[43096]

Any news on what happened ???

Sorry to disappoint the naysayers, but the train itself is in full working order and ready to go.

 

[Bob Price]

Sorry to disappoint the naysayers, but the train itself is in full working order and ready to go.

The problem with ROG is they have quite an aging fleet of locos. Perhaps they should snap up some 67's that are in store.

 

[Bob Price]

Now what? Is a new path in or planned?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sorry to disappoint the naysayers, but the train itself is in full working order and ready to go.

I am sure that the "naysayers" you make reference to will be still suitably impressed by the vast Vivarail fleet that currently graces the British rail network...

 

[D365]

I am sure that the "naysayers" you make reference to will be still suitably impressed by the vast Vivarail fleet that currently graces the British rail network...

I'm just as impressed with the sprawling number of Class 769s that have been ordered and delivered.

 

[43096]

I am sure that the "naysayers" you make reference to will be still suitably impressed by the vast Vivarail fleet that currently graces the British rail network...

13 sets delivered or on order is 13 more than many thought.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

13 sets delivered or on order is 13 more than many thought.

When Vivarail originally purchased all the LU stock with Northern being the most likely candidate to receive them at the time, how many units would they have envisaged to produce after any upgrading?

 

[ScottGallagher]

When Vivarail originally purchased all the LU stock with Northern being the most likely candidate to receive them at the time, how many units would they have envisaged to produce after any upgrading?

I did wonder if Serco or Go Ahead planned to order these for Northern had they won the bid

 

[Bob Price]

I am a big fan of this project and have followed it as close as possible as you can from a distance. Very keen to see them in action on the Borderlands line if I can get up there.

 

[Bob Price]

If 006 is about to be delivered and 007 and 008 are complete then it won't be that long. Driver training will be the deciding factor.

 

[EngFocus]

The issue wasn't with the unit itself or ROG. Can't elaborate more than that. As for the delays, that's not all down to Vivarail, there had been issues with parts suppliers and TfW's high specification. I'm as keen as anyone for them to arrive and for passengers to see the benefit, the but technically all 5 aren't needed in operation unit December 2021 when the half hourly service is due to commence. If half way through the 2021 they're still not forthcoming then TfW will have to explain how it plans to introduce the half hourly service which is a contractual agreement.

 

[sw1ller]

Have they been gauged for the borderlands line yet?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it really 2000 hours of fault free running required? Or 2000 miles...

 

[43096]

I understand operational difficulties with parts but a 2yr & counting delay isn't good, plus I like your optimism regarding the 230's but there's so many unresolved issues with this project never mind the spiralling costs !
It's a very long list of issues for a 5 set micro fleet of trains on a branch line, were 150's already good job.

It’s not a 2 year delay for a start....

 

[43096]

It will be by the time they are seen in the route, how long is the delay then ?

You said “2 years and counting”. It’s more like one year, but as you have been told not all the issues thus far have been down to VivaRail. Likewise the delays now are not down to VivaRail.

 

[hobbm013]

So vivarail are blameless in all this then ? I've heard the units when inspected had no second man seat / no cab air con / no cab opening windows / no data recorder / not been crash tested for mainline use / no yellow front & this list goes on ! I know TFW have changed a few things but not to create such a long delay. These units need a new depot purpose built

The original mockups posted by TfW didn’t have yellow fronts either? I am aware they do now due to a customer request but they don’t have to have them so not quite sure what your point is there. Also there’s videos of them being crash tested on the internet

 

[Neptune]

A quick search of google shows that the crash test was done in 2015 long before any orders were taken.

Yellow ends are not required if the frontal illumination meets group standards which the class 230 does. In that case a yellow end is customer choice which TfW chose after delivery.

 

[Domh245]

The units had to be crash tested for mainline usage but hadn't been when TFW had made the order, so the testing would cause a delay caused by vivarail as the unit wasn't mainline specification was my point on that matter,

?? TfW ordered them in mid 2018, Vivarail carried out their (physical) crash test on them in mid 2015. The first LNWR unit was running around on the national network ~3 months after TfW's order, so it's pretty clear that getting 'mainline specification' wasn't an issue for the units..

It's a safety matter painting the fronts yellow & how long does it take to repaint a train front In reality, so I think the TFW safety departments request would not really cause a big delay.

You intially raised the point of the units not having a yellow front to try and discredit vivarail - the initial lack of yellow would have been at TfW's request, ditto the lack of cab aircon and secondman's seat.

Nobody is saying that Vivarail are blameless.

 

[43096]

So vivarail are blameless in all this then ? I've heard the units when inspected had no second man seat / no cab air con / no cab opening windows / no data recorder / not been crash tested for mainline use / no yellow front & this list goes on ! I know TFW have changed a few things but not to create such a long delay. These units need a new depot purpose built

You need to read what I wrote about the reason for the delays - nowhere did I say VivaRail are blameless.

As for the rest of what you claim, I think you need to stop believing everything you’ve heard. It’s just laughable.

 

[hobbm013]

The units had to be crash tested for mainline usage but hadn't been when TFW had made the order, so the testing would cause a delay caused by vivarail as the unit wasn't mainline specification was my point on that matter, they were underground stock with a gangway door so this matter added to the delay ! It's a safety matter painting the fronts yellow & how long does it take to repaint a train front In reality, so I think the TFW safety departments request would not really cause a big delay.
It's the fact you say vivarail are blameless in the delays which is baffling, as who else is to blame ? I admire optimism but maybe I'm more of a realist regarding rolling stock matters like this

I have never said Vivarail are blameless in this. Neither has anyone else. It has simply been said that Vivarail aren’t the only ones to blame for delays. Lots of small delays from the TOC, suppliers, Vivarail soon add up.

The posters above have done a very good job of responding to your points so I won’t repeat them, but it very much sounds like the classic example of ‘yeah I heard it Down the pub from a mate who knows a mate at Vivarail’ I Wouldn’t believe everything you hear

 

[John R]

Apparently they are gauged but there's many issues regarding them being 3 car sets & fitting at a few stations !

If I understand you correctly, that could hardly be Vivarail's fault surely?

 

[Neptune]

So vivarail are blameless in all this then ? I've heard the units when inspected had no second man seat / no cab air con / no cab opening windows / no data recorder / not been crash tested for mainline use / no yellow front & this list goes on ! I know TFW have changed a few things but not to create such a long delay. These units need a new depot purpose built

If you could back up what you’ve heard it would be useful because some of your post was immediately proved to be incorrect and the rest would surely have come out in the press as they would be major issues if true.

 

[Bob Price]

Knowing they have already shipped units to London Northwestern I find the list above a little hard to believe personally.