Class 321/4 / 320/4

Joel_F

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Apologies if this is common information, but I can't seem to find out what happened to the TSOL carriages of the class 321/4s when they were converted to 320/4s at Doncaster back in 2015. Were they scrapped, or placed into other 321 formations?
 
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Logan Carroll

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What was the reason for binning the extra carriages in the first place?

i thought the argyle and north clyde lines had space for 8 carriages?
 

43096

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What was the reason for binning the extra carriages in the first place?

i thought the argyle and north clyde lines had space for 8 carriages?
No, it’s a 6 car railway, which is why the trailers were removed.
 

Domh245

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Would these be the first Mk3/Mk3-based vehicles to be scrapped after withdrawal?

I would have thought the Cl210 vehicles (well, some of them) would beat them to that honour at least, with some vehicles being scrapped in 2003 at least. Even then, I wouldn't be sure that those were actually the first
 

bramling

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Would these be the first Mk3/Mk3-based vehicles to be scrapped after withdrawal?

Class 317 - one driving car scrapped damaged in a shunting accident at Cricklewood before entering service
Class 318 - intact
Class 319 - 319004 scrapped January 2020
Class 320 - intact
Class 321 - four vehicles scrapped as a result of Watford collision c.1996
Class 322 - intact
Class 150 - two driving vehicles scrapped in late 1980s as a result of two separate accidents, one at St Helens Central the other Seamer.
Class 455 - one motor vehicle scrapped as a result of Oxshott cement mixer incident in 2010, and a TS vehicle scrapped in 2005.
Class 456 - intact.

It would therefore seem that if one includes accidents the first Mk3 unit vehicle to be scrapped would be the 317 DTS damaged at Cricklewood, and if not including accidents the first would be the 455 TS scrapped in 2005.

However I think one or more class 210 vehicles were scrapped in the interim.

These 321 trailers would, however, by the first Mk3 unit vehicles to be scrapped purely as a result of being surplus, as everything else is a special case for one reason or another.
 
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507021

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Were more built in their place? I'm not aware of any unit numbers missing from the sequence...

From memory, the undamaged carriages from 321420 were used to get 321418 back into service.

However 321420 was essentially a new build, including a spare driving trailer which was built while the 321s were in production.
 

507021

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I would guess the replacement carriages, as well as a new spare trailer, were built at Derby alongside the Mk3-derived Class 325s which were in production at the time.
 

43096

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I would guess the replacement carriages, as well as a new spare trailer, were built at Derby alongside the Mk3-derived Class 325s which were in production at the time.
I was under the impression the five 321 vehicles were built at Crewe?
 

D365

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Class 317 - one driving car scrapped damaged in a shunting accident at Cricklewood before entering service
Class 318 - intact
Class 319 - 319004 scrapped January 2000
Class 320 - intact
Class 321 - four vehicles scrapped as a result of Watford collision c.1996
Class 322 - intact
Class 150 - two driving vehicles scrapped in late 1980s as a result of two separate accidents, one at St Helens Central the other Seamer.
Class 455 - one motor vehicle scrapped as a result of Oxshott cement mixer incident in 2010, and a TS vehicle scrapped in 2005.
Class 456 - intact.

It would therefore seem that if one includes accidents the first Mk3 unit vehicle to be scrapped would be the 317 DTS damaged at Cricklewood, and if not including accidents the first would be the 455 TS scrapped in 2005.

However I think one or more class 210 vehicles were scrapped in the interim.

These 321 trailers would, however, by the first Mk3 unit vehicles to be scrapped purely as a result of being surplus, as everything else is a special case for one reason or another.
319004 was scrapped 2020 but I imagine that to be a simple typo. It isn't a particularly special case though is it? Just a unit in poor condition AFAIK.
 

bramling

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319004 was scrapped 2020 but I imagine that to be a simple typo. It isn't a particularly special case though is it? Just a unit in poor condition AFAIK.

Yes apologies I did indeed mean Jan 2020.

No one really seems to know why that unit was scrapped. You’re right it doesn’t seem to be a special case, but as it was scrapped after the 321 trailers it wouldn’t be the first Mk3 to go.
 

samuelmorris

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Yes apologies I did indeed mean Jan 2020.

No one really seems to know why that unit was scrapped. You’re right it doesn’t seem to be a special case, but as it was scrapped after the 321 trailers it wouldn’t be the first Mk3 to go.
Yeah I was going to say, I travelled on it in 2015 :)
 

norbitonflyer

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Class 317 - one driving car scrapped damaged in a shunting accident at Cricklewood before entering service
Class 318 - intact
Class 319 - 319004 scrapped January 2020
Class 320 - intact
Class 321 - four vehicles scrapped as a result of Watford collision c.1996
Class 322 - intact
Class 150 - two driving vehicles scrapped in late 1980s as a result of two separate accidents, one at St Helens Central the other Seamer.
Class 455 - one motor vehicle scrapped as a result of Oxshott cement mixer incident in 2010, and a TS vehicle scrapped in 2005.
Class 456 - intact.

It would therefore seem that if one includes accidents the first Mk3 unit vehicle to be scrapped would be the 317 DTS damaged at Cricklewood, and if not including accidents the first would be the 455 TS scrapped in 2005.

However I think one or more class 210 vehicles were scrapped in the interim.

These 321 trailers would, however, by the first Mk3 unit vehicles to be scrapped purely as a result of being surplus, as everything else is a special case for one reason or another.
The Class 455 TS was presumably the one from 5912, which was modified for experiments with plug doors. It was found that the modifications compromised the structural integrity of the bodyshell so after the experiments were over it was simpler to replace it with a spare Class 210 trailer 67400 than to convert it back to standard, although it was used for some livery experiments.
Unlike the Class 210 vehicle 67301 which was modified for use in 5913 (the Oxshott casualty), 67400 has kept some of its original features that make it an odd one out in the 455/9 fleet, most obviously the individual rainstrips over each door (like the 455/7 and 455/8) rather than a continuous one along the cantrail. I seem to recall that until refurbishment it also retained its original (smaller) opening toplights to the windows.

Both vehicles had formed part of the Class 457 testbed as part of the Networker programme, 67400 later being swapped out for a Class 313 pantograph trailer and the unit reclassified as Class 316.
 

JonathanH

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The Class 455 TS was presumably the one from 5912, which was modified for experiments with plug doors. It was found that the modifications compromised the structural integrity of the bodyshell so after the experiments were over it was simpler to replace it with a spare Class 210 trailer 67400 than to convert it back to standard, although it was used for some livery experiments.
Not quite - the TS from 5912 is in 5905 - that from 5905 is in 5919 and the TS from 5919 is in 5918 - 71731 from 5918 was scrapped and 5912 has 67400.
 

Helvellyn

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Class 317 - one driving car scrapped damaged in a shunting accident at Cricklewood before entering service
Class 318 - intact
Class 319 - 319004 scrapped January 2020
Class 320 - intact
Class 321 - four vehicles scrapped as a result of Watford collision c.1996
Class 322 - intact
Class 150 - two driving vehicles scrapped in late 1980s as a result of two separate accidents, one at St Helens Central the other Seamer.
Class 455 - one motor vehicle scrapped as a result of Oxshott cement mixer incident in 2010, and a TS vehicle scrapped in 2005.
Class 456 - intact.

It would therefore seem that if one includes accidents the first Mk3 unit vehicle to be scrapped would be the 317 DTS damaged at Cricklewood, and if not including accidents the first would be the 455 TS scrapped in 2005.

However I think one or more class 210 vehicles were scrapped in the interim.

These 321 trailers would, however, by the first Mk3 unit vehicles to be scrapped purely as a result of being surplus, as everything else is a special case for one reason or another.
The two Class 210 motor vehicles (DMSO 60200 and DMBSO 60201) have both been scrapped, which I believe was May 2003. The TCOL 60450 was also scrapped although I'm unsure of the date. All three were allocated departmental numbers although only 60450 saw any actual use as a departmental vehicle.

Yes, the replacement 321 vehicles were built by Adtranz at Crewe.
Does anyone know if the five vehicles were allocated new Lot No.s?
 

stu77

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What about the class 318 which failed to stop at Largs station. Surely a car or two was scrapped after that so cant be intact.
 

JonathanH

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What about the class 318 which failed to stop at Largs station. Surely a car or two was scrapped after that so cant be intact.
No, 318254 was young enough to have its cab completely rebuilt. Part of 318254 ended up on its side at Anderston in 2007 as well. The 318 fleet is intact.
 

47444

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Apologies if this is common information, but I can't seem to find out what happened to the TSOL carriages of the class 321/4s when they were converted to 320/4s at Doncaster back in 2015. Were they scrapped, or placed into other 321 formations?
My understanding is that 71959 is still at Doncaster (often visible alongside the station) and 71960/1/2/3/4/5 were moved to Long Marston. Whether they were subsequently scrapped at Long Marston I don't know.

I am less sure of the status of the trailers from the second batch of conversions i.e. coaches 71949/51/52/66/68
 

amwells

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From what I can ascertain, 71961 and 71962 were cut at Booths in October 2018 and 71963 and 71966 in March 20.

Any ideas on the fates of 71960, 71964, 71965 and 71968?

I’ve assumed that 71959 is still at Doncaster...
 

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