Class 377/5 Southeastern

[physics34]

They don't seem to have done well the seat cushions are already in very poor condition I don't know how Southern get away with it considering how poor their services are.

Often mentioned. The seat covers dont age aswell as the 'brushed' seat covers used by virtually every other company. Really not very good especially as they couldve changed the type during refreshing...

 

[NSEUser]

377523 has been at Brighton for quite some time in the same location.....

(377164 was there last week too).

 

[FlippyFF]

I didn't get the unit ID but the 07:06 Ashford to Canterbury West was formed of a four car Thameslink/ branded 377 this morning. All I got was vehicle 73509 on the London end. Outside PIS screens were showing 'Listen to announcements'.

Simon

 

[Stow]

Often mentioned. The seat covers dont age aswell as the 'brushed' seat covers used by virtually every other company. Really not very good especially as they couldve changed the type during refreshing...

Are you kidding? Have you not seen the state of the London Midland 350/1 units, the ‘uncut’ moquette seems to stand up better from what I have seen as a commuter

 

[physics34]

Are you kidding? Have you not seen the state of the London Midland 350/1 units, the ‘uncut’ moquette seems to stand up better from what I have seen as a commuter

they havent been changed in 14 years though have they? SOuthern ones were new 5 years ago

 

[evergreenadam]

Last week's pdf of changes (above) has now been updated to include more services. Now 69 in total, was 41.

Probably best to follow the link: https://www.southeasternrailway.co....hanced-service-additional-carriages.pdf?la=en

...rather than attach a copy of the pdf that will probably go out of date after a week.

Last week's original version (above) is still linked from the original press release though, so that'll cause confusion...

Shame the poster does not include the new total number of carriages on each service.

 

[Mordac]

Are all 23 with Southeastern yet?

 

[Class 466]

Are all 23 with Southeastern yet?

Nearly all 23x 377/5s are and 377163/164 should transfer sooner rather than later.

 

[Mordac]

Nearly all 23x 377/5s are and 377163/164 should transfer sooner rather than later.

Could you (or anyone else who's also in a position to know) update us when it happens, please? I'd really appreciate it, I like to keep my records up to date, and update Wikipedia pages where possible.

 

[Class455]

377523 has been at Brighton for quite some time in the same location.....

(377164 was there last week too).

I last saw 164 at Kenley just under two weeks ago. Wonder if its been withdrawn now

 

[Class 466]

Could you (or anyone else who's also in a position to know) update us when it happens, please? I'd really appreciate it, I like to keep my records up to date, and update Wikipedia pages where possible.

The southeastern page on Wikipedia has been put into the end state already for clarity.

 

[urpert]

Perhaps the new Southeastern franchise will replace all 465/466s with newer redundant stock (with perhaps some new build also ordered).

My fingers are very much crossed. (Latest Informed Sources strongly suggests the Networkers will be going in the next franchise but, correctly IMO, points out a large homogeneous new fleet is more likely than e.g. passing on the 707s, 458s and other spare more modern DC units.)

 

[Agent_Squash]

...points out a large homogeneous new fleet is more likely than e.g. passing on the 707s, 458s and other spare more modern DC units.)

Considering Desiro City is a family still in production (with some of the 707s still yet to come off the production line), is it likely that there will just be a follow on order for additional coaches and units?

 

[urpert]

Considering Desiro City is a family still in production (with some of the 707s still yet to come off the production line), is it likely that there will just be a follow on order for additional coaches and units?

Certainly the Southeastern ITT explicitly recommended replacing Networkers with ‘modern high density stock like Class 700’. Clearly there will have to be a competitive tender though.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Certainly the Southeastern ITT explicitly recommended replacing Networkers with ‘modern high density stock like Class 700’. Clearly there will have to be a competitive tender though.

I was just thinking with it almost being political suicide (even though the DfT supposedly don't mess with rolling stock) to have effectively brand new units sat in the sidings while some PEPs, 455s and 150s are still being sweated.

 

[387star]

There is a real push for standardized fleets it would seem which must be cost effective in the long run

The networkers are in a pretty poor state with the flooring suffering from bubbling... pretty sure the flooring hasn't been changed since the early 90s which is pretty remarkable!

 

[jon0844]

The networkers are in a pretty poor state with the flooring suffering from bubbling... pretty sure the flooring hasn't been changed since the early 90s which is pretty remarkable!

I've noticed the Victoria Line trains are starting to do that in places.

 

[Mikey C]

There is a real push for standardized fleets it would seem which must be cost effective in the long run

The networkers are in a pretty poor state with the flooring suffering from bubbling... pretty sure the flooring hasn't been changed since the early 90s which is pretty remarkable!

It is pretty extravagant though if every franchise around London replaces all their stock, or at least their inner suburban stock. It's not just the Networkers, there are also the 376s which would be dumped if a standardised fleet was chosen.

The Networkers would normally be getting a midlife refurbishment by now, all the other BR era stock has had one since privatisation.

 

[387star]

It is pretty extravagant though if every franchise around London replaces all their stock, or at least their inner suburban stock. It's not just the Networkers, there are also the 376s which would be dumped if a standardised fleet was chosen.

The Networkers would normally be getting a midlife refurbishment by now, all the other BR era stock has had one since privatisation.

Indeed but there is an appetite to replace them

maybe the 376s could replace the 313s after all they don't have toilets fitted

 

[SF-02]

376s should go to where a 10 car railway is the limit. Not SE Metro then. 465s are more than half way through life at 26 years for the oldest, and they show it. Never had a proper refurb which shows what successive TOCs and the DfT have thought of the areas they cover. Half forgotton and with some modest investment a similar boom to London Overground growth is achievable.

 

[JonathanH]

What kind of 'proper refurb' does the 465 fleet require? A refit like the SWT 455 fleet to create more standing areas? They may be a bit down at heel but it is testament to their design that they haven't needed the kind of full rebuilding that previous generations of rolling stock has needed.

 

[theageofthetra]

What kind of 'proper refurb' does the 465 fleet require? A refit like the SWT 455 fleet to create more standing areas? They may be a bit down at heel but it is testament to their design that they haven't needed the kind of full rebuilding that previous generations of rolling stock has needed.

They are all having 2020 DDA compliant accessible toilets fitted- I can see them being with us for some time.

 

[ScotGG]

What kind of 'proper refurb' does the 465 fleet require? A refit like the SWT 455 fleet to create more standing areas? They may be a bit down at heel but it is testament to their design that they haven't needed the kind of full rebuilding that previous generations of rolling stock has needed.

More standing areas would be very good. And a lot of older stock now looks much better and brighter internally - the 455s you mention, plus 508s in Merseyside, Newcastle Metro, 313s on the south coast etc.


Networkers are increasingly tired and drab. The floor vinyl is bubbling up in places. There's scuffs all over the carriages and embedded dirt. At a basic level its not a very nice environment which is to expected after 25+ years when only light work has been carried out. Seat covers etc. The broken window theory applies - they look unloved and so some people are more likely to treat them like dirt.

The recent toilet works hasn't really made any difference. A very modest job again.

 

[bengley]

I personally think the Networkers have aged extremely well. They don't look like they're nearly 30 years old.

They could do with a deep clean perhaps, and have bubbled floors replacing but that is a maintenance issue.

 

[class387]

I personally think the Networkers have aged extremely well. They don't look like they're nearly 30 years old.

They could do with a deep clean perhaps, and have bubbled floors replacing but that is a maintenance issue.

Agreed. I have always thought the Networkers were a brilliant design of train, probably some of the best commuter trains the UK has built. The Southeastern Metro ones could do with a refresh, but the 465/9s (and 365s etc.) are very good - a refurb to that standard would be good.

 

[387star]

yes I agree the networker isn't a bad design although the internal doors seem to be a nightmare to open

going back to the DDA stuff do both external and internal door buttons need replacing as I have seen refreshed units with only inside or outside buttons replaces

 

[SF-02]

Yep the SE Metro Networkers are far worse than the 465/9s, 365s and diesel variants. Sometimes it feels night and day when using SE Metro and others on the same day

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes I agree the Networker isn't a bad design although the internal doors seem to be a nightmare to open.

The trick is to place your hand close to the ceiling level sensor; they always seem to open fairly quickly then.

 

[ScotGG]

Got on a Metro networker this morning that was a "refurb" unit. Floor bubbles still seen, the grills by the floor were caked in dirt throughout and scuffs and chips over most surfaces - seats, walling etc. A fuller job would give another decade's life to what are good units but now tired.

 

[Class 466]

There isn't an increase in 377 Diagrams next week (w/c 02/10/17), however the week after two more 8 car diagrams come into use:

8 377 vice 6 465/466
1A91 0529 AFK – BFR
1F95 0719 BFR – MDE
1F97 0845 MDE – BFR
2K26 1534 VIC – RAI
2K94 1707 RAI – VIC
2N66 1842 VIC – AFK

8 377 vice 6 465/466
1A14 0656 AFK – VIC
2N20 0852 VIC – AFK
2A30 1110 AFK – VIC
2N35 1252 VIC – AFK
2A46 1510 AFK – VIC
2N52 1652 VIC – AFK

Worth noting that this sees an end to Networkers berthing in Ashford after however many years!