Class 450 "Guard's Office"?

[455/8]

I have to say it's very common on the Windsor lines for guards to work the train from the cab even when the train's not busy. Even on occasion they'll lock the connection between units so passengers can't walk through (like 455 and 458) and so they can spread themselves out in the cab without disturbance. If these particular staff want the case made for DOO they're doing a very good job of it, I'm afraid.

There was a notice that came out about a month ago conserning this action about guards that have been closing the gangway doors between the units and stopping the passengers from walking thruogh the train, we have been told that if guards are seen/caught doing so they will be given disaplinary action as they're not performing their duties as guards if they are sealing off the unit and also doing so you are causing a safetly issue as this walk way is/ can be used as an emergency exit if required and as such is like locking out a gang way door betweek coaches on a 455 preventing passengers from moving up the train if required.

 

[Pumbaa]

LM350 guards office now used as trolley store. Marvellous.

 

[scotsman]

LM350 guards office now used as trolley store. Marvellous.

But not always on the buffets of the ex-HT 170/3s

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You could indeed walk from the front cab of an 8 car unit to the rear when the units were opperated DOO (a trial by BR/NSE).

I'll have to throw a spanner in the works here I'm afraid; there was quite often a guard sitting in the secondman's side of one of the cabs when I was walking through. The driver's side was, as you say, sealed off with the 3 way door.

I just checked my old commuting details; I commuted from 02/12/85 until 16/07/93; most of my "walking through" was from 1986 to 1989.

 

[455/8]

I'll have to throw a spanner in the works here I'm afraid; there was quite often a guard sitting in the secondman's side of one of the cabs when I was walking through. The driver's side was, as you say, sealed off with the 3 way door.

I just checked my old commuting details; I commuted from 02/12/85 until 16/07/93; most of my "walking through" was from 1986 to 1989.

I know that most of the 455's when they were worked as DOO had type of door or a blocker which folded out from the front gangway door and slotted over it and then locked in position with a carriage key to a bit of wood that extended from the door just like the 158/9's to allow passengers to walk through the trains in multiple.

As for the Guard it could have been a conductor put on the train to check tickets and was just having a 5 minute break or was put there because the door i was talking about above was missing and for safety reason had to have a member of staff to allow passengers to walk through the train or a member of train crew that could have been passing from Effingham junction or Epsom depot to waterloo or another station to start or finish duty then again its possible that fro some stations the DOO needed a guard for dispatch as i said it was only trialed by BR/NSE so I'm not really 100% clear on all of the details just things i have learnt through out the years talking to other members of staff and research.

 

[455/8]

I found a few images showing what I meant about the front blocking door of the 455 which was used to seal off the secondmans side of the cab during multiple DOO formations, I've tried to scale them down so please excuse the quality I only picked them to explain what I meant about the blocking door used, the first 2 pictures I know are pictures of the refurbished units which I took one day at work when I was in on of the cabs, you can see in the first image the bit of wood sticking out from the back wall behind the second mans seat with a gap in for a door to slot into and the insert for the door to lock into, in the second image ignore the gangway door thats closed look of the door that's open at the hinge end, you can see a clip on the top of the gangway door where the blocker door would have slotted onto in the third image which isn't one of mine I found it with a quick search of google and it shows a BR 455 57xx series with the front door blacked with no window which would be the blocker door I was talking about like on a 158/9 which is in the final image as a comparison which again is one of mine.

If this makes sense to you all thank god as I think I've confused my self trying to explain it

 

[CarterUSM]

I know what you mean mate! We call that the fly screen though!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, it makes sense thanks.

I recall those blocker doors before the refurbishment - I seem to recall they were a dark purple translucent perspex material?

 

[ChampsRacing]

On the subject of closing off middle doors on desiros, our depot manager agreed that during the rush hour thats ok to do as alot of commuters love to plant themselves in there which can block off our access to the other side of the unit which has happened to me twice and lost 5minutes just trying 2 get everyone to move out of the middle because they felt it was their "right" to stand in there. Only thing about the goldfish bowl is that it can be intimidating when you get people staring at you with beady eyes . Me personally i rather working trains from the cabs but when its not busy or dead i work them from the goldfish bowl

 

[wibble]

On the subject of closing off middle doors on desiros, our depot manager agreed that during the rush hour thats ok to do as alot of commuters love to plant themselves in there which can block off our access to the other side of the unit which has happened to me twice and lost 5minutes just trying 2 get everyone to move out of the middle because they felt it was their "right" to stand in there. Only thing about the goldfish bowl is that it can be intimidating when you get people staring at you with beady eyes . Me personally i rather working trains from the cabs but when its not busy or dead i work them from the goldfish bowl

That's not a particularly safe area to stand in - especially as there are no grab rails if the train stops suddenly. It's a shame you can't just lock them in the corridor!

 

[455/8]

Our managers told us a completely different thing saying we have to leave the doors open even during the morning/evening rush but if people do tend to stand there then we are to tell them nicely that they cannot as it is a walkway and needs to be kept clear incase of emergency. I to have had to ask many people to move out of there in the past as they do seem to think that they pay their money to travel the trains they should be able to go where every they like, I've even had one bloke demand that I open the cab so that he could have a seat becuase he had paid over £100 for a ticket and there were no free seats other than those in the driving cabs and he saw the seats in the cab and wanted to sit in there.

 

[Helvellyn]

Our managers told us a completely different thing saying we have to leave the doors open even during the morning/evening rush but if people do tend to stand there then we are to tell them nicely that they cannot as it is a walkway and needs to be kept clear incase of emergency. I to have had to ask many people to move out of there in the past as they do seem to think that they pay their money to travel the trains they should be able to go where every they like, I've even had one bloke demand that I open the cab so that he could have a seat becuase he had paid over £100 for a ticket and there were no free seats other than those in the driving cabs and he saw the seats in the cab and wanted to sit in there.

I'm with you on this one. We've also been told not to be locking internal gangway doors closed between units, because it's an exit route if required.

The goldfish bowl isn't too bad, and as somewhere for the Guard to base themselves it is definitely better than a middle/rear cab.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm with you on this one. We've also been told not to be locking internal gangway doors closed between units, because it's an exit route if required.

The goldfish bowl isn't too bad, and as somewhere for the Guard to base themselves it is definitely better than a middle/rear cab.

Passengers do seem to actually value the guard being in the "Goldfish bowl" and will often say goodbye when they get off the train. The sort of the thing that breaks down barriers between staff and passengers.

 

[ChampsRacing]

That's not a particularly safe area to stand in - especially as there are no grab rails if the train stops suddenly. It's a shame you can't just lock them in the corridor!

It always makes me snigger when you see them flying from one unit to the other when the driver is a little heavy handed on the brakes

 

[thefab444]

I'm sure the SWT 2007 franchise documentation (as originally published) suggested that the guard's offices in the 444 and 450 were going to be removed eventually anyway to provide more seats

Sadly, I don't think an extra 4 seats per unit is going to solve all of SWT's overcrowding problems.

 

[455driver]

But it would be a start!

 

[thefab444]

I think that for Class 450s they may be surplus to requirements, especially given in a 12 coach formation there will be 3 offices! However, they should be kept on 444s.