Class 503 disposal

[WesternLancer]

V sad news - so does this mean there will be no surviving LMS EMU trains from this generation of Merseyside rolling stock (or just the one car from this unit that it is suggested will be retained - albeit still in need of a massive sum to restore)?

 

[Sun Chariot]

V sad news - so does this mean there will be no surviving LMS EMU trains from this generation of Merseyside rolling stock (or just the one car from this unit that it is suggested will be retained - albeit still in need of a massive sum to restore)?

Post #12:
The 503's cousin, the Southport/Ormskirk class 502, is sitting securely at Burscough and is being actively restored. It doesn't have many supporters, but it has enough to keep the project afloat

 

[D7666]

.You can bet your boots if this were a LNER / GNR / NER 1930s EMU design in question the thing would be fully complete forever under NRM auspices and under a roof at Shildon or somewhere.

 

[WesternLancer]

Post #12:
The 503's cousin, the Southport/Ormskirk class 502, is sitting securely at Burscough and is being actively restored. It doesn't have many supporters, but it has enough to keep the project afloat

Thanks - that is at least something +ve. These units must be an important part of Merseyside transport history - as well as of national significance.

 

[eldomtom2]

.You can bet your boots if this were a LNER / GNR / NER 1930s EMU design in question the thing would be fully complete forever under NRM auspices and under a roof at Shildon or somewhere.

I doubt that, frankly.

 

[D365]

EMU's do get the worst treatment of any of the traction groups. Dumped in airfields, industrial estates, pubs, then split up with inner carriages scrapped.

Perhaps because they are much less 'adaptable' than locos, loco-hauled trains or DMUs. And with a few exceptions, far less 'romantic'.

 

[eldomtom2]

I'd say that EMUs are about as romantic as DMUs - the problem is that no heritage railway has the necessary infrastructure to run them, and since most people seem to think that the only options are third rail DC or overhead AC, both unacceptable for a heritage railway on safety grounds, that seems unlikely to change.

 

[A0wen]

.You can bet your boots if this were a LNER / GNR / NER 1930s EMU design in question the thing would be fully complete forever under NRM auspices and under a roof at Shildon or somewhere.

The fate of the last class 506 kinda disproves that.......

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The fate of the last class 506 kinda disproves that.......

And the fate of the last 306 disproves this....

 

[Ianigsy]

What about the fate of the actual 1930s LNER Tyneside units?

Of course, if they’d been built by the GWR, in fifty years’ time somebody would be building a new one!

In all honesty, I doubt that many non-enthusiasts on Merseyside would even be aware that the 503 still existed, and being firmly Wirral-based for most of their careers, many people on the Liverpool side would only ever have come across them on weekend trips to New Brighton and West Kirby.

 

[D7666]

The 306 is still about (and at Shildon) isn't it ?

The 506 is really little more than a 306 update and partly duplicates a 306.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The 306 is still about (and at Shildon) isn't it ?

The 506 is really little more than a 306 update and partly duplicates a 306.

Yes it was undergoing proper restoration when I last went up there

 

[D7666]

Yes it was undergoing proper restoration when I last went up there

Thanks and QED

 

[A0wen]

The 306 is still about (and at Shildon) isn't it ?

The 506 is really little more than a 306 update and partly duplicates a 306.

And you could make the same case that a 503 is merely an update of a 502 and there's one of those being restored.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Thanks and QED

tu es gratis

 

[Trestrol]

The 306 is still about (and at Shildon) isn't it ?

The 506 is really little more than a 306 update and partly duplicates a 306.

I think you've got that the wrong way round. The 306 is an updated 506, in fact it effectively was a 506 until converted to a 306. Being actively restored at Shildon.

 

[John Luxton]

Presumably you’ve got a savings account with a few thousand quid in it then from your own foresight…?

I have lived on Merseyside all of my life and in that time I have seen money wasted on various schemes often involving heritage. As well as railways my other transport interest is shipping. We established a brilliant Maritime Museum which in the 1980s through to the early 1990s was first class. Then National Museums that run all the principal Merseyside Museums started to develop another area - that of recording the slave trade. Millions have been spent at the cost of the Maritime Museum into which it encroached. However, the Museum couldn't fund the classic Weaver Navigation Packet vessel WINCHAM which was scrapped. New management at the Museum then disbanded the volunteer group which was part of the Friends of the Merseyside Maritime Museum that were restoring the historic auxiliiary sailing vessel DE WADDON. This had led to its decay and the decision last year to scrap it on site. The dry dock in which it has sat since arrival in the 1980s is going to have a "contemplation space" built in the bottom of it. Looks like some sort of mausoleum from the artists images I have seen.

It is all rather depressing.

There is funding out there if projects fit certain topical and particularly "pc" categories of history and that I find really frustrating, and I know many other people do to. Establishing a National Electric Railway Museum in the old Birkenhead Central Car Sheds would have cost a few million, but it could have been done if priorities were different.

 

[D7666]

I think you've got that the wrong way round. The 306 is an updated 506, in fact it effectively was a 506 until converted to a 306. Being actively restored at Shildon.

Class 306 new 1949

Class 506 new 1954

As built, the latter is an update of the former. Adapting a 306 from DC to AC does not negate that a 306 predates 506 by 5 years.

 

[1Q18]

Then National Museums that run all the principal Merseyside Museums started to develop another area - that of recording the slave trade.

The slave trade plays a major role in the maritime and economic history of Liverpool and several other port cities - surely it is only right and proper that the suffering of the countless victims is acknowledged and not glossed over.

 

[Brush 4]

As well as the preserving of ships - in a maritime museum - not instead of......

 

[Northerngirl]

The slave trade plays a major role in the maritime and economic history of Liverpool and several other port cities - surely it is only right and proper that the suffering of the countless victims is acknowledged and not glossed over.

Given that they've scrapped 2 of their 4 boats already I wouldn't trust them with anything

 

[Trackman]

Someone once told me about storage costs, it ain't cheap! I also guess it's riddled with asbestos, which will cost £££s to remove.

 

[John Luxton]

The slave trade plays a major role in the maritime and economic history of Liverpool and several other port cities - surely it is only right and proper that the suffering of the countless victims is acknowledged and not glossed over.

Yes but it out of all proportion. It is only one aspect of the maritime and economic history. It was never ignored by the museum neither was Irish migration.

 

[Trestrol]

Class 306 new 1949

Class 506 new 1954

As built, the latter is an update of the former. Adapting a 306 from DC to AC does not negate that a 306 predates 506 by 5 years.

You mis understood what I meant. Remember the 306 were built as DC units. They were substantialy altered when converted to AC, this involved moving the pantograph and guards compartment to the centre car. Both the 306 and 506 are pre-second world war designs of 1938 as both the Sheffield and Woodhead were planned prewar. Some of the Sheffield units were actually delivered pre/early war. The 306 and 506 were ordered at the same time 1938 by the LNER as a batch of 100 units. 92 for Sheffield and the last 8 for Woodhead -Glossop line. They are the same units

 

[SERA01UK]

Someone once told me about storage costs, it ain't cheap! I also guess it's riddled with asbestos, which will cost £££s to remove.

I’d love to see those figures and the asbestos report and compare it to what I’ve got on record.

 

[Trackman]

I’d love to see those figures and the asbestos report and compare it to what I’ve got on record.

I wasn't talking about the 503, but in general. I should have made that clear, apologies.

 

[D6130]

Both the 306 and 506 are pre-second world war designs of 1938 as both the Sheffield and Woodhead were planned prewar. Some of the Sheffield units were actually delivered pre/early war. The 306 and 506 were ordered at the same time 1938 by the LNER as a batch of 100 units. 92 for Sheffield and the last 8 for Woodhead -Glossop line. They are the same units

Presumably in this context 'Sheffield' is a Typo for 'Shenfield'?

 

[Trestrol]

Presumably in this context 'Sheffield' is a Typo for 'Shenfield'?

Bloody spell check

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You mis understood what I meant. Remember the 306 were built as DC units. They were substantialy altered when converted to AC, this involved moving the pantograph and guards compartment to the centre car. Both the 306 and 506 are pre-second world war designs of 1938 as both the Sheffield and Woodhead were planned prewar. Some of the Sheffield units were actually delivered pre/early war. The 306 and 506 were ordered at the same time 1938 by the LNER as a batch of 100 units. 92 for Sheffield and the last 8 for Woodhead -Glossop line. They are the same units

The 306 still predates the 506.... Deliveries started in 1949 along with entry to service. But the 506 was still an updated 306 and did not enter service until 1954

 

[Mat17]

It's a shame a 506 wasn't preserved. You'd have the 506 representing the DC traction with fairly original layout. The 306 being an AC adapted variant. I'm surprised there's as many 77s kept as there are!

It'll be a shame when most of the 503 bites the dust.