Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[norbitonflyer]

701043 (the named set) out yesterday (when I took a ride to Staines and back) and also today.

post 7789 updated - thanks

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Staff could just stop posting on the site in general if that’s what you’d prefer?

As I’ve said before, people contribute information on RailUK Forums with best intentions, but unfortunately the railway runs on tea and rumours. This means someone may post on here fully believing something that turns out to not be true.

You also get information lag and “Chinese whispers” (I’m not sure if there’s a more politically correct term for that phrase) so factual information is disseminated to a handful of people at Waterloo, and by the time that information makes it to (for example) a driver or guard at Weymouth the information is either out of date or distorted.

The forum has a policy on quoting your sources which is fair enough, however I believe it’s also fair enough that members are not expected name drop where that information has come from. Members who are staff in my opinion should however use their initiative to work out how timely the information is. For example Monty stating their head LDC rep at their guards depot had told them something is probably reasonably accurate, however depot messroom chat (and it happens in a lot of industries) is usually more fiction than fact.

Don’t be so stand-offish; I happened to defend staff several times who supplied information and then were criticised, so your sarky opening line is not appreciated. All I was saying is that there’s no shame in openly admitting one has no idea what’s happening next with the 701s, because it’s honestly a confusing situation. I was being nice for once, damn!

 

[[email protected].]

post 7789 updated - thanks

Is your information relating to 10:25 Dep Waterloo today?

 

[CarrotPie]

Is your information relating to 10:25 Dep Waterloo today?

That's the only 701 diagram today.

 

[pompeyfan]

Don’t be so stand-offish; I happened to defend staff several times who supplied information and then were criticised, so your sarky opening line is not appreciated. All I was saying is that there’s no shame in openly admitting one has no idea what’s happening next with the 701s, because it’s honestly a confusing situation. I was being nice for once, damn!

The way your original post came across to me was you were having a dig at staff posting on here who had given what had turned out to be incorrect information.

If you have been defending staff then fair enough but I must have missed those posts.

It wasn’t meant to be sarky, I was merely saying if people are going to be criticised for posting information that they genuinely believed to be true but turns out to be incorrect or out of date, then the only other option is for them not to post, unless they put a disclaimer. If sorry if you perceive that as being sarcastic and stand-offish.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is your information relating to 10:25 Dep Waterloo today?

Yes - in response to the previous post saying unit 043 ran today - RTT having, unusually, kept us in the dark.

 

[[email protected].]

Yes - in response to the previous post saying unit 043 ran today - RTT having, unusually, kept us in the dark.

Hoping to travel on 10:25 tomorrow, fingers crossed.

 

[pompeyfan]

Just seen a rather odd set of paths on RTT for Waterloo. Wondering if these are 701 related?

Realtime Trains | 5Z73 1042 Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to London Waterloo | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z73 1042 departure from Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to London Waterloo on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z90 1024 Woking to London Waterloo | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Z90 1024 departure from Woking to London Waterloo on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z74 1210 London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z74 1210 departure from London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[3973EXL]

Just seen a rather odd set of paths on RTT for Waterloo. Wondering if these are 701 related?

Realtime Trains | 5Z73 1042 Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to London Waterloo | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z73 1042 departure from Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to London Waterloo on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z90 1024 Woking to London Waterloo | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Z90 1024 departure from Woking to London Waterloo on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z74 1210 London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z74 1210 departure from London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z73/74
73 3417 (4 VEP) 73

 

[pompeyfan]

5Z73/74
73 3417 (4 VEP) 73

Say what? I didn’t realise 3417 was out on the network. I follow the page on Twitter and hadn’t seen it was taking to the national network again. That’s great news.

 

[73128]

Just seen a rather odd set of paths on RTT for Waterloo. Wondering if these are 701 related?

Realtime Trains | 5Z73 1042 Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to London Waterloo | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z73 1042 departure from Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to London Waterloo on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1Z90 1024 Woking to London Waterloo | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Z90 1024 departure from Woking to London Waterloo on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Z74 1210 London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. | 27/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z74 1210 departure from London Waterloo to Strawberry Hill C.S.D. on 27/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I believe not. Connected with Gordon Pettitt's 90th birthday.

 

[Invincible]

I believe not. Connected with Gordon Pettitt's 90th birthday.

So a repeat of the 2013 ceremony on platform 19?

It’s Gordon, the slam door train

A RAILWAY enthusiast from Woking has made locomotive history after one of the last slam door trains to remain in active service in the South West was named after him.

www.getsurrey.co.uk

Wonder why low profile as not often a 4VEP now goes to Waterloo.
Maybe the family want it private and there will be other 4VEP public trips later
All the previous 4VEP 3417 threads seems to have closed?

 

[Goldfish62]

The latest issue of Modern Railways gives the current planned rollout programme:

1. Windsor
2. Weybridge / Hounslow loop
3. Kingston loop / Shepperton
4. Reading / Ascot - Farnham
5. Hampton Court / Chessington / Dorking
6. Woking / Guildford

Training expected to take 12-18 months.

 

[swr444]

The latest issue of Modern Railways gives the current planned rollout programme:

1. Windsor
2. Weybridge / Hounslow loop
3. Kingston loop / Shepperton
4. Reading / Ascot - Farnham
5. Hampton Court / Chessington / Dorking
6. Woking / Guildford

Training expected to take 12-18 months.

interesting, the chessi's interwork with the woking and guildford via cobhams. hampton courts interwork with the via epsom services (apart from sundays).
So 5+6 would either be done at the same time or are incorrect.

 

[norbitonflyer]

interesting, the chessi's interwork with the woking and guildford via cobhams. hampton courts interwork with the via epsom services (apart from sundays).
So 5+6 would either be done at the same time or are incorrect.

Or the timetable, and stock diagrams, will change in June.

 

[[email protected].]

701039 Doing honours today on 10:25

701037 passed at Putney out of service towards Waterloo

 

[73128]

701039 is out today. Possible that the workings will be switched at some point to take over (for part of the day) a normal Windsor diagram instead of being an extra.

 

[Dan G]

interesting, the chessi's interwork with the woking and guildford via cobhams. hampton courts interwork with the via epsom services (apart from sundays).
So 5+6 would either be done at the same time or are incorrect.

I imagine that's the reason they're second last and last in an 18 month programme.

I wonder if we will ever find out the (real) reasons for the four-year delay.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Or the timetable, and stock diagrams, will change in June.

I don't have any 'insider' knowledge of the (701) plans, but I suspect this is a very likely scenario. Prior to the original 10 car (455+455+456 & 707) plan on the main suburban side, a small number of what had been long (in situ) term 455 diagrams were revised at Waterloo (in/out workings) in such a way that the diagram(s) themselves (forget the stock type) would work with the as yet to be (at the time) implemented 10 car plan and associated new track layout outside p1-4. The thinking behind this was to allow the revised diagram pattern/timetable and crew diagrams to bed in and settle down, so that when the 10 cars did start running over the new layout, there would be no surprises for anyone when working in to Waterloo. In this way, the potential scenario of a change of timetable detail/track layout, revised stock and crew diagrams, revised platform working, all commencing on the same day, was avoided, which hopefully aided a smoother transition in a small way.

 

[Goldfish62]

Or the timetable, and stock diagrams, will change in June.

Sounds more likely given it would be a massive chunk to do all at once.

Ascot - Farnham is a new addition is it not? Given the service pattern is actually Ascot - Aldershot I wonder if it means that Farnham - Guildford is also included. If so that mops up 5 x 5 car units.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Is the Ascot - Farnham just a reference to the peak hours extras that run through to Waterloo which link in with the Readings anyway?

Ascot - Aldershot and Guildford - Farnham actually requires 6 units, three on each. It did used to be five units when the service was Ascot - Guildford

 

[norbitonflyer]

interesting, the chessi's interwork with the woking and guildford via cobhams. hampton courts interwork with the via epsom services (apart from sundays).
So 5+6 would either be done at the same time or are incorrect.

At one time all the "mains" (except Shepperton and Kingston Loop) interworked. This was, I think, shortly after the chnages at Waterloo that allowed all platforms to take ten cars. I forget the sequence, but it included Hampton Court, Woking, Guildford via Cobham (back via Epsom), Chessington, Guilldford via Epsom (back via Cobham), and Dorking. This made the best use of the available platforms at Waterloo, but did mean that any problem on one branch quickly spread to all the others. The services have been thinned out now and less complex diagramming is possible.

 

[3973EXL]

701528

Realtime Trains | 5Q20 0912 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | 26/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q20 0912 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd on 26/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Big Jumby 74]

At one time all the "mains" (except Shepperton and Kingston Loop) interworked.

This was the case going back decades. It's all I ever knew since I joined in the 70's. It was designed to make best use of platform capacity at Waterloo, an acknowledged problem going back to the major rebuilds of 1884-1922, but also allowed the timetable planners to make best use of connectional opportunities at places such as Surbiton and also (perhaps?) a lesser extent Guildford/Woking in to/out of main (Fast) line services, and not forgetting such connections at the likes of Epsom as well.
Taking a glance at the 1962 CWN, off peak mid day main suburban turn rounds at Waterloo, we have the following;

Inbound Chessy formed outbound Sheppy.
Inbound Sheppy formed outbound Effy/Horsham (depending on which half hour it was - not a case of same train going to two destinations)
Inbound Waterloo W formed outbound Chessy
Hampton Courts self contained
Inbound Horsham/Effy formed outbound Waterloo W
Guildford via Cobham self contained

The pattern has obviously changed this way and that over the years depending on the overall timetable in place.

Back to 701's: given the plan will eventually only rely on a single type of unit (accepting there will be some 5 car units) this will make planning so much easier going forward (aided by these new fangled toilets that won't require a depot visit every 48 hours), this will allow the planners to concentrate/focus far more on actual timetable matters and how to make best use of timetable space/headways etc. In the past (and still now to a degree) there is a trade off, not a large one, but still some parts of the TT that have to be worked around the various and differing types of stock that are in play.

 

[SWT_USER]

I understand the reason for some 5 car units is depot/ siding space. Are there planned to be any single 5 car units on Waterloo services?

The latest issue of Modern Railways gives the current planned rollout programme:

1. Windsor
2. Weybridge / Hounslow loop
3. Kingston loop / Shepperton
4. Reading / Ascot - Farnham
5. Hampton Court / Chessington / Dorking
6. Woking / Guildford

Training expected to take 12-18 months.

12-18 months from now? Or from when they actually start introducing them properly? If the latter then we're still potentially a couple of years off a full introduction in to service.

Good news (ish) for me as primarily a user of Windsor and Weybridge services.

 

[Goldfish62]

12-18 months from now?

12-18 months from the start of training, presumably?

 

[SWT_USER]

12-18 months from the start of training, presumably?

I agree that seems more likely.

Still a good few years off then - can't see any of the industrial relations issues being sorted prior to the general election.

 

[Goldfish62]

I agree that seems more likely.

Still a good few years off then - can't see any of the industrial relations issues being sorted prior to the general election.

Eh? If you mean the ongoing national pay dispute that has nothing to do with the 701 introduction.

Clearly, if training starts, say, next month and goes as planned then everything will be in service by late Summer next year.

 

[43066]

Eh? If you mean the ongoing national pay dispute that has nothing to do with the 701 introduction.

Clearly, if training starts, say, next month and goes as planned then everything will be in service by late Summer next year.

Well, it does and it doesn’t. It’ll likely mean less cooperation from ASLEF, and potentially RMT if they end up back in dispute.

Fingers crossed it gets resolved ASAP.

 

[Goldfish62]

Well, it does and it doesn’t. It’ll likely mean less cooperation from ASLEF, and potentially RMT if they end up back in dispute.

Fingers crossed it gets resolved ASAP.

They'd both have to watch it from a legal viewpoint. I assume training on new rolling stock is in drivers and guards job descriptions. You can't simply pick and choose what you do and don't do in your JD as part of any industrial action. You either withdraw your labour completely or refuse to undertake voluntary parts of your job (usually overtime). That's the very reason when people suggest that an effective way of taking action would be to leave ticket gates open it simply can't be done. It would be a clear breach of the employment contract with no legal protection.

Whatever the ins and outs of everything as a passenger I am heartily sick of the squabbles between SWR and the unions about the 701s over the past few years. They all need their heads knocking together.

A plague on all their houses!