Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Clarence Yard]

The managers will get away like nothing happened as usual, with an extra helping of LinkedIn slop ("#TeamSWR")

The managers are just doing what the DfT is ordering them to do! If they go under the transfer, it will be for show.

The one thing that will change is that the move will release some money that would have been paid to the OG as fees, so that should help if training cost has been one of the the DfT’s issues.

The other thing a transfer will help is that they can change their instructions to the TOC or the TOC business plan itself and blame it all on SWR. This is the tactic they used with TPE.

 

[Wyrleybart]

It's down in Hansard as "brought":

I'd also view that as no commitment, agreeing with importance is a common way of sounding like you will do something without actually saying it will happen. Even if the situation was resolved tomorrow, the amount of training required means no more than a couple of additional diagrams could run by 25 May. A resolution coming imminently also doesn't seem that likely given how long it's been going on for.

Is anyone else left wondering why the station infrastructure ie lighting etc has not been resolved over the last five years that the 701s have been parked up ? I am guessing that was Heidi Alexander who stood up and gave that information.

Nothing amazes me anymore

 

[Goldfish62]

The managers are just doing what the DfT is ordering them to do!

So the DfT ordered them to ensure that they didn't do anything over the last few years to ensure that platform lighting was up to standard and that they deliberately run sufficiently short of drivers so that they can't afford to release any for training?

If that really is true (which I doubt) then it's a shocking indictment of the calibre of the senior management that they have been prepared just to sit around and put up with that while raking in their salaries.

 

[gravitystorm]

So the DfT ordered them to ensure that they didn't do anything over the last few years to ensure that platform lighting was up to standard and that they deliberately run sufficiently short of drivers so that they can't afford to release any for training?

If that really is true (which I doubt) then it's a shocking indictment of the calibre of the senior management that they have been prepared just to sit around and put up with that while raking in their salaries.

You get unwelcome outcomes when you have over-simplified constraints. For example, if you are told by DfT "no additional costs" then you can't upgrade platform lighting and you can't hire more drivers. Sure, you then lose income (from cancelled services) or have additional costs (due to having duplicate rolling stock leases), but those factors weren't in the "no additional costs" part.

On a more concrete example, I talked with one of the SWR managers last year about removing a parking space outside Tolworth station, to add additional bike parking. They said that wouldn't be possible, because they can't make a change that would decrease the income from the car park. I asked if it would still be worthwhile, because instead of one fare for the driver and one payment for one car parking space, you could get six fares from six people arriving by bike, and that would be more revenue overall. He said that's not how it's calculated, the revenue from the car parking is considered in isolation, and that revenue must not be reduced. So I'm not surprised when stuff like this happens. Everything is siloed, and there's very little big-picture thinking.

 

[DMckduck]

The Transport Secretary has made a statement about getting the Class 701 introduction issues sorted before SWR comes into public ownership at the end of May after questioned by Paul Kohler, MP for Wimbledon
View attachment 177486

Poor from the transport secretary to regurgitate the role of the guard, AFAIK the role of the guard on these trains was agreed in 2021 was it not?

 

[swtrains]

Today's testing:

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Aldershot - goes via Richmond, and Virginia Water.
5T92 - Aldershot - Clapham Yard - goes to Farnham, reverses and goes back the same way.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q37615/2025-03-31/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q37613/2025-03-31/detailed

 

[weeklycommuter]

The real question arising from the following exchange reported in Hansard is why has it become necessary, as clearly it has, for the Rail Minister to personally get involved to resolve this issue.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2025-03-27/debates/8B63B535-C111-4C74-B99D-9B1A74537BD2/RailwayCapacity

Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)
In 2017, South Western Railway ordered 90 new Arterio trains to increase capacity on its rail network. They were meant to enter service in 2019. However, six years later, only five are in service—presumably not counting the empty one that sailed by a teeming and seething platform at Wimbledon this morning. With SWR set to be in Government hands in two months, what steps will be taken to ensure that those trains are finally brought into service?
Heidi Alexander
I know that the Rail Minister is seized of this issue. He has spoken to me about it, and I understand that it relates to issues with lighting on platforms, what can be seen from the CCTV cameras and the role of the guard. We are across the detail, and it is important that those issues are resolved before the trains are brought into public ownership on 25 May.

 

[RichSwitch]

The Transport Secretary has made a statement about getting the Class 701 introduction issues sorted before SWR comes into public ownership at the end of May after questioned by Paul Kohler, MP for Wimbledon
View attachment 177486

All I’ll say is “Good luck with that one!”.

 

[Mainsideman]

Poor from the transport secretary to regurgitate the role of the guard, AFAIK the role of the guard on these trains was agreed in 2021 was it not?

Yep you are correct, multiple guards are still being trained weekly at inner depots and unless theres fresh problems im not aware of, for her to bring this up sums them up to me.

 

[norbitonflyer]

According to the schedule published at the relaunch in November (how many have there been now?), there should have been eleven diagrams operating by the end of March.

Here we are in April.

 

[willontrains]

Yep you are correct, multiple guards are still being trained weekly at inner depots and unless theres fresh problems im not aware of, for her to bring this up sums them up to me.

I've been told by at least 3 sources that they have halted guard training? New Guards are still being trained on 455 Traction.

 

[swtrains]

Today's testing (701041):

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Reading - normal.
5T92 - Reading - Clapham Yard - normal.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q37614/2025-04-01/detailed#allox_id=0

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q37612/2025-04-01/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I've been told by at least 3 sources that they have halted guard training? New Guards are still being trained on 455 Traction.

Yeah it wouldn’t make much sense to keep training up guards when there’s no active driver programme and therefore no new diagrams. Large majority would loose their competency rating (6 months from memory) before they were able to guard another 701, and then when eventually the driver training restarts they’d have to go through a refresher course.

 

[Bumpkin]

I've been told by at least 3 sources that they have halted guard training? New Guards are still being trained on 455 Traction.

701 guard training is still continuing, albeit at a reduced pace to before. 5Q02 is running right now which is a guard practical training run.

Realtime Trains | 5Q02 0928 Clapham Yard Sidings to London Waterloo | 01/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q02 0928 departure from Clapham Yard Sidings to London Waterloo on 01/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mainsideman]

I've been told by at least 3 sources that they have halted guard training? New Guards are still being trained on 455 Traction.

Your source is wrong. Guards are still being trained and assessed almost daily now.

 

[Class15]

Your source is wrong. Guards are still being trained and assessed almost daily now.

What’s the point? You can’t exactly run extra services without a driver.

 

[Bumpkin]

What’s the point? You can’t exactly run extra services without a driver.

So that when driver training resumes in it's shortened, faster version, you don't run into the problem of having too many drivers trained and not enough guards?

 

[Class15]

So that when driver training resumes in it's shortened, faster version, you don't run into the problem of having too many drivers trained and not enough guards?

Don’t the guards need to keep competency on both the 455s and 701s then? Seems a bit inefficient but this is SWR I guess.

 

[willontrains]

Don’t the guards need to keep competency on both the 455s and 701s then? Seems a bit inefficient but this is SWR I guess.

"455/459/450/444 traction training is entirely separate to 701 Training" - New Metro Guard based at Wimbledon

 

[Bikeman78]

Yeah it wouldn’t make much sense to keep training up guards when there’s no active driver programme and therefore no new diagrams. Large majority would loose their competency rating (6 months from memory) before they were able to guard another 701, and then when eventually the driver training restarts they’d have to go through a refresher course.

The six diagrams probably have 20 different guards turns across the day so working one every six months should not be a problem.

 

[Nogoohwell]

stupid question, can a non-aslef affiliated driver still take the old or new 701 training course and drive them?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've been told by at least 3 sources that they have halted guard training? New Guards are still being trained on 455 Traction.

And even on 458/5s - I saw one being trained last week.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

stupid question, can a non-aslef affiliated driver still take the old or new 701 training course and drive them?

I would certainly hope so (but I am over a decade out of the industry). Which union, or none, that a person subscribes to should not have a bearing on their chosen career path. I was NUR/RMT for most of my career, even though more than 50% of same was in clerical/Management grades. It was an individual's choice as far as I was concerned.

 

[brad465]

According to the schedule published at the relaunch in November (how many have there been now?), there should have been eleven diagrams operating by the end of March.

Here we are in April.

This morning I saw an April Fool's post elsewhere saying all the 701s would enter service today. To anyone with even an iota of railway knowledge, no-one was falling for that

 

[Big Jumby 74]

And even on 458/5s - I saw one being trained last week.

Noticed just in passing a group of a dozen or so guard trainees at Guilford a few weeks back, but that was 455 related on p2.

 

[MotCO]

This morning I saw an April Fool's post elsewhere saying all the 701s would enter service today. To anyone with even an iota of railway knowledge, no-one was falling for that

Does that mean the Minister fell for it

 

[alanc]

There appears to be a 5q89 from long marston to Eastleigh running today Any help with ID’s gratefully received Alan

 

[3973EXL]

There appears to be a 5q89 from long marston to Eastleigh running today Any help with ID’s gratefully received Alan

Reported elsewhere as 47739 701512/509

 

[The_Train]

This morning I saw an April Fool's post elsewhere saying all the 701s would enter service today. To anyone with even an iota of railway knowledge, no-one was falling for that

If it said by the end of 2026 I wouldn't believe it, never mind by the end of today

 

[Goldfish62]

If it said by the end of 2026 I wouldn't believe it, never mind by the end of today

Talking of 2026, a quote from the current issue of Modern Railways, reporting Andrew Haines recently:

there are some major projects coming up, such as a rewrite of the South Western timetable in 2026 at the conclusion of the Arterio rollout...

i suppose there might be a couple more diagrams by the end of next year if we're lucky. Sadly, I don't think this is even a wildly outrageous suggestion.