Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[Jobbenar]

I take it none are in service yet then? This time next week I'll be in London. Won't be visiting Clapham as don't need anything from there unless there's any 701s about

 

[Goldfish62]

I take it none are in service yet then? This time next week I'll be in London. Won't be visiting Clapham as don't need anything from there unless there's any 701s about

Nowhere near any entering service. We can but hope that some do enter service before they're withdraw in 35 years time.

 

[Bigfoot]

Wondered what it was when I passed there on Wednesday, probably the same one. Also passed one by the Staines Loop later. So seem plenty around, but sat in sidings doesn't get the drivers trained.

There are no drivers being trained because none have been able to pass fault free running to then be delivered to SWR. A delivery from Derby to the South is not an actual delivery to SWR. Plus covid social distancing in the cab is currently impossible which means training is on hold until that issue is resolved.

 

[norbitonflyer]

There are no drivers being trained because none have been able to pass fault free running to then be delivered to SWR. A delivery from Derby to the South is not an actual delivery to SWR. Plus covid social distancing in the cab is currently impossible which means training is on hold until that issue is resolved.

According to an article in the latest issue of "Rail" on the 442s, (page 17) the 701s are already in service! "The (458)s were withdrawn from the Waterloo/Reading line following introduction of the long-delayed new class 701 Arterios" I take it the future tense should have been used?
Wikipedia also suggests they have already entered service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There are no drivers being trained because none have been able to pass fault free running to then be delivered to SWR. A delivery from Derby to the South is not an actual delivery to SWR. Plus covid social distancing in the cab is currently impossible which means training is on hold until that issue is resolved.

So GA are getting 720's accepted and drivers trained albeit its slowed up recently i believe. SE have taken their 707's and are getting on with it yet SWR just don't move forward.

Still standby my proposal to divert these to SE now and let SWR just deal with what they've got save all the aggravation

 

[Bigfoot]

So GA are getting 720's accepted and drivers trained albeit its slowed up recently i believe. SE have taken their 707's and are getting on with it yet SWR just don't move forward.

Still standby my proposal to divert these to SE now and let SWR just deal with what they've got save all the aggravation

Somewhat hard to move forward if the manufacturer can't build something that works...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Somewhat hard to move forward if the manufacturer can't build something that works...

710/720's work so wonder what the issue is with 701's same core train underneath

 

[Goldfish62]

710/720's work so wonder what the issue is with 701's same core train underneath

Some of the 710s are DC so I thought the 701s would essentially be the same.

So GA are getting 720's accepted and drivers trained albeit its slowed up recently i believe. SE have taken their 707's and are getting on with it yet SWR just don't move forward.

Yes, and Crossrail are also busy training additional drivers on the 345s.

So in the last 15 months other operators have worked out how to train staff within the existing constraints, but SWR haven't. Somehow I'm not surprised...

 

[Bigfoot]

So in the last 15 months other operators have worked out how to train staff within the existing constraints, but SWR haven't. Somehow I'm not surprised...

There is a plan for training, but no point in putting it into practice if there is no working train to use.

 

[Bald Rick]

So in the last 15 months other operators have worked out how to train staff within the existing constraints, but SWR haven't. Somehow I'm not surprised...

I’m fairly sure SWR are training drivers. Just not on the 701s.

If they are not, it won’t be because of not working out how to.

 

[Domh245]

Class 710s don't work in multiple. A 701 10 car is actually 2 5cars without the cabs in the centre.

That might be news to London Overground, who routinely operate them in pairs on services to/from Liverpool St.

(eg)

 

[Bigfoot]

That might be news to London Overground, who routinely operate them in pairs on services to/from Liverpool St.

(eg)

Can't help being told by a fitter that working in multi was the problem then!

 

[hwl]

Can't help being told by a fitter that working in multi was the problem then!

There was originally but solved a very long time ago (pre-Covid!)

 

[absolutelymilk]

Wikipedia also suggests they have already entered service.

Now fixed!

 

[Flange Squeal]

I’m fairly sure SWR are training drivers.

Indeed they are. Trainees are returning, 'Finals' for those at their required number of driving hours are currently taking place to get them qualified, and once passed out they are paired up with someone in route learning 'bubbles' for the final stage before going productive. Those who say SWR are simply doing nothing on the driver training front are very much mistaken!

 

[Snow1964]

Indeed they are. Trainees are returning, 'Finals' for those at their required number of driving hours are currently taking place to get them qualified, and once passed out they are paired up with someone in route learning 'bubbles' for the final stage before going productive. Those who say SWR are simply doing nothing on the driver training front are very much mistaken!

That is helpful info regarding new drivers

But how long does a type conversion take (existing drivers who can drive a 707), or the older 455 & 456

Thinking about it must be number of drivers (on route via Feltham) that already drive 707, 450, 455, 456, 458 so presumably don’t need to learn everything from scratch to drive new 701s

 

[Goldfish62]

Those who say SWR are simply doing nothing on the driver training front are very much mistaken!

My comments in particular were in response to an apparently informed poster who said that no training could take place on 701s because social distancing in cabs is impossible.

 

[RealTrains07]

710/720's work so wonder what the issue is with 701's same core train underneath

Have you forgotten that these have completely different cabs compared to any of the other aventras in service with other operators?

The 710, 720s and 345s have the same cab. The 701s do not and the 701 cab still needs changing to meet the demands of the union which I believe is Aslef?

 

[Bigfoot]

My comments in particular were in response to an apparently informed poster who said that no training could take place on 701s because social distancing in cabs is impossible.

In the 701 cab. Likewise there is no instructor and trainee driver working 707 stock either due to the close proximity of the seats and the companies decision to not allow training to take place.

 

[Goldfish62]

In the 701 cab. Likewise there is no instructor and trainee driver working 707 stock either due to the close proximity of the seats and the companies decision to not allow training to take place.

So the company has decided not to do training? This seems to be going round in circles!

 

[swr444]

So the company has decided not to do training? This seems to be going round in circles!

Just on the 707.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Have you forgotten that these have completely different cabs compared to any of the other aventras in service with other operators?

The 710, 720s and 345s have the same cab. The 701s do not and the 701 cab still needs changing to meet the demands of the union which I believe is Aslef?

The traction package is the same and the control equipment on the drivers desk uses the same equipment its just the layout that was changed.

Anyhow I don't know specifics just be interesting to hear what the issue is although it appears from other posters short of all Covid social distancing regulations being removed they seem unlikely to move forward so the cab issue is being masked.

 

[Bigfoot]

So the company has decided not to do training? This seems to be going round in circles!

If you read the post that you wrote that I responded to it was clear that you only referred to the 701 training. This thread is only for 701s. Training on other stock or roles is not relevant to the 701 introduction.

The fact of the matter is the 701 stock has not managed to run it's fault free running to be accepted for delivery to SWR. Social distancing or not, no training will take place until there is enough stock delivered to enable training to commence.

Is that too hard to understand?

 

[Nogoohwell]

Is there a cab simulator for the 701's at SWR?

 

[samuelmorris]

Class 710s don't work in multiple. A 701 10 car is actually 2 5cars without the cabs in the centre.


There is a plan for training, but no point in putting it into practice if there is no working train to use.

Surely they do out of Liverpool Street?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Surely they do out of Liverpool Street?

Thats 720's

 

[swt_passenger]

Thats 720's

LO have 8 car (2x4) 710s running out of Liverpool St, Lea Valley & Chingfords.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

LO have 8 car (2x4) 710s running out of Liverpool St, Lea Valley & Chingfords.

Oh yes thanks for clarification.

 

[Goldfish62]

Have you forgotten that these have completely different cabs compared to any of the other aventras in service with other operators?

Photos of the cabs suggest that while there may be differences they are not *completely* different to other Aventras. They are very much recognisably an Aventra cab.

I would describe the 717 cab as completely different to the 700/707 cab.

 

[Nogoohwell]

701023 was out and about yesterday morning heading towards Clapham Junction from Waterloo. Dont know if it was the same unit, but another was sitting in Vauxhall platform 4 about 10:30 last night.