Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[Nicholas Lewis]

It all seems a far cry from the upbeat articles in Modern Railways and Today's Railways a couple of months ago. Taking those articles at face value the first batch of units would have been accepted by SWR by now and training in would be in full progress. These were to be a mix of units built from new with SWR-spec cab layouts and earlier units built with Aventra standard cab layouts, subsequently rebuilt to SWR specification.

MR is becoming a mouthpiece for the operators so they can fill the pages with good news stories rather than objective reporting. They've been on the slippery slope ever since Ian Allan sold out.

 

[Goldfish62]

MR is becoming a mouthpiece for the operators so they can fill the pages with good news stories rather than objective reporting. They've been on the slippery slope ever since Ian Allan sold out.

If you read Ian Walmsley or Alan Williams regularly you'll know that simply isn't true!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If you read Ian Walmsley or Alan Williams regularly you'll know that simply isn't true!

Fair do's those two say it as it is. Its the major articles that have become a mouthpiece for the TOCs talking up everything that they want to promote as to why they are so good but never a mention of any of the underlying issues they have.

As i see it all those that put down SWT should now be eating humble pie as they had a far sounder strategy that would have ensured a more positive outcome for passengers than the fiasco that is the 701's. Its about time one of the twenty off Tory MPs constituencies that these trains were supposed to be serving by now put the boot into the DofT to ask what the real issues are and whose banging heads together to get things moving.

 

[Goldfish62]

Fair do's those two say it as it is. Its the major articles that have become a mouthpiece for the TOCs talking up everything that they want to promote as to why they are so good but never a mention of any of the underlying issues they have.

As i see it all those that put down SWT should now be eating humble pie as they had a far sounder strategy that would have ensured a more positive outcome for passengers than the fiasco that is the 701's. Its about time one of the twenty off Tory MPs constituencies that these trains were supposed to be serving by now put the boot into the DofT to ask what the real issues are and whose banging heads together to get things moving.

Modern Railways has had feature articles on TOCs for very many years. It also deliberately steers away from industrial relations issues, taking a neutral line. In any case I don't see what point you are trying to make given that the article was about Alstom, not SWR.

And we could debate the assertion that SWT had a better rolling stock strategy at length, but that should be on a separate thread.

I looked at the Anon SWR tweet about the alleged 707s. It wouldn't be the first time they spread unfounded rumours. What was far more interesting was this reply, which would appear to corroborate Alstom's predictions that a first batch of 701s would be delivered to SWR by now:

https://twitter.com/kellyokid/status/1515979418287624193?s=20&t=KveaU7sZF8W9tpX7EQBsLA

Replying to
@AnonSWRTeam
Unfortunately there’s now May units that have completed fault free mileage and are now just sat in Feltham, Clapham and Wimbledon ready to go so I believe delivery has been taken of some.

10:03 AM · Apr 18, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

I assume "May" should actually be "many".

 

[AlexNL]

I looked at the Anon SWR tweet about the alleged 707s. It wouldn't be the first time they spread unfounded rumours.

I see Anon SWR Team as the digital equivalent of the mess room. Lots of stories going round but maybe 10% of it is true.

 

[C96]

I see Anon SWR Team as the digital equivalent of the mess room. Lots of stories going round but maybe 10% of it is true.

That tweet could be their 10% truth however…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

As I’ve said, what grates everyone seeing the uncommon and unprecedented events that happened with the 442s (which were 40 years old btw) and ÖBB Talents and now automatically assuming any new orders (including this very large one) can just be cancelled like that. It’s so very unlikely.

In the event of 701s being cancelled, SWR would either have to arrange to re-lease 458533/534 or do without, and 458007/017 have already began their longer haul refurbishment at Widnes, ditching the ex 460 car at Long Marston. The thirty 707s are spoken for and cannot return (or remain in the case of the last 12) just because SWR decide to ditch the stock they replaced them with. 456s have began to be scrapped. At least five or six 455s have gone off-lease and would need to be re-leased to come back, and 455740 is as good as a shell.

So SWR would have a severe stock shortage on Metro routes, even with their disgusting timetable cutbacks on many routes, until whatever stock they ordered instead arrived which would take 3 years minimum - and then could have similar acceptance issues. The remaining 455s are NOT acceptable as a permanent fleet so they would have to order a replacement for the 701s, and there’s no way First would overhaul them with the limited time left so the fleet would just continue dying as it is now.

 

[Goldfish62]

That tweet could be their 10% truth however…

Or not. More likely wishful thinking on the part of those who for whatever reason best known to themselves never want the 701s introduced.

 

[Carlisle]

Modern Railways has had feature articles on TOCs for very many years. It also deliberately steers away from industrial relations issues, taking a neutral line.

Not always, their editorial column several years ago urged the then SWT boss Tim Shoveller to adopt DOO

 

[Goldfish62]

Not always, their editorial column several years ago urged the then SWT boss Tim Shoveller to adopt DOO

Which from a business point of view made sense.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

disgusting timetable cutbacks on many routes,

Why are cutting trains out to match the demand disgusting? Covid hasn’t left a magic month tree to find carting round fresh air or passengers on cheaper tickets without the peak fares coming in unless you want to pay extra tax at a time when cost of living is a real problem.

 

[Towers]

Which from a business point of view made sense.

Alas, presumably SWT management were more qualified to make an appropriate decision than some bloke writing a magazine editorial, possibly trying to be 'controversial' to make his publication stand out in a heavily overcrowded marketplace...

 

[pompeyfan]

The ORR report rail is back to 80%, but the headline doesn’t show when or where those passengers are. Is there any indication on how the Wessex route, and Waterloo are doing? I believe it was the busiest (in terms of passenger numbers) in the country, well ahead of Kent, Sussex, Western and Anglia routes.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Why are cutting trains out to match the demand disgusting? Covid hasn’t left a magic month tree to find carting round fresh air or passengers on cheaper tickets without the peak fares coming in unless you want to pay extra tax at a time when cost of living is a real problem.

Proposing to cut metro routes to one tph off peak, when off peak travel is expected to return to near pre-Covid levels, is short-sighted at best.
And they are raking it in in SW London, thanks to anomalous zoning and no competition. (LB Kingston is the only London Borough to be served by only one rail operator (NR or TfL), and Richmond isn't much better).

 

[Goldfish62]

Alas, presumably SWT management were more qualified to make an appropriate decision than some bloke writing a magazine editorial, possibly trying to be 'controversial' to make his publication stand out in a heavily overcrowded marketplace...

Nonsense. Modern Railways isn't a purely enthusiast magazine. There's plenty of choice of magazines if you want things from an enthusiast perspective.

Anyway, if you want an argument about the quality of journalism in Modern Railways you'd best start a separate thread as its way off topic.

Back to 701 introduction, if as claimed several units have passed fault free running and been accepted when is training starting?

 

[TEW]

Back to 701 introduction, if as claimed several units have passed fault free running and been accepted when is training starting?

Not imminently.

 

[Snow1964]

Back to 701 introduction, if as claimed several units have passed fault free running and been accepted when is training starting?

The original schedule had a number of units in service Autumn 2019, which means some drivers should have been done 6 months before covid interrupted it.

So there may be some that just need a quick refresher, or are part trained, and only have part of their training unfinished.

Social distancing etc is officially discontinued in England so any Covid related excuses, after 25 months of planning on how to operate after covid would be a diabolically poor excuse to still use to explain further delays.

 

[Mordac]

The original schedule had a number of units in service Autumn 2019, which means some drivers should have been done 6 months before covid interrupted it.

So there may be some that just need a quick refresher, or are part trained, and only have part of their training unfinished.

Social distancing etc is officially discontinued in England so any Covid related excuses, after 25 months of planning on how to operate after covid would be a diabolically poor excuse to still use to explain further delays.

Which means it'll almost certainly be used.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Proposing to cut metro routes to one tph off peak, when off peak travel is expected to return to near pre-Covid levels, is short-sighted at best.

The only route that is proposed for is beyond Leatherhead to Bookham, which whilst served by metro services is incredibly rural and has low off-peak usage.

There’s nothing in the SWR plan for cutting core metro routes in the travel card zones to 1tph like Southern are doing so to Beckenham etc.

 

[TEW]

The original schedule had a number of units in service Autumn 2019, which means some drivers should have been done 6 months before covid interrupted it.

So there may be some that just need a quick refresher, or are part trained, and only have part of their training unfinished.

Social distancing etc is officially discontinued in England so any Covid related excuses, after 25 months of planning on how to operate after covid would be a diabolically poor excuse to still use to explain further delays.

No SWR drivers have had any training yet.

 

[ashkeba]

Social distancing etc is officially discontinued in England so any Covid related excuses, after 25 months of planning on how to operate after covid would be a diabolically poor excuse to still use to explain further delays.

Not exactly. Employers are still required to "consider" social distancing as part of their "duty of care" of their employees.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not exactly. Employers are still required to "consider" social distancing as part of their "duty of care" of their employees.

Yes, but given that other TOCs are able to train crews I very much doubt SWR is an exception in this respect.

 

[ashkeba]

Yes, but given that other TOCs are able to train crews I very much doubt SWR is an exception in this respect.

Probably not, but the 701 cabs are small. Are any other First Group company's currently training? Are any train company's training on small cabs like dogboxes?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There’s definitely a lot of them at the new Feltham depot. I got a great view from a flight out of Heathrow on Sunday. It’s completely full of 701s.

 

[Goldfish62]

Probably not, but the 701 cabs are small. Are any other First Group company's currently training? Are any train company's training on small cabs like dogboxes?

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for excuses now!

The cabs are as wide as any other train. A friend of mine recently completed his training on the Class 720.

 

[XCTurbostar]

The ORR report rail is back to 80%, but the headline doesn’t show when or where those passengers are. Is there any indication on how the Wessex route, and Waterloo are doing? I believe it was the busiest (in terms of passenger numbers) in the country, well ahead of Kent, Sussex, Western and Anglia routes.

I think it’s more likely the 456s will return if stock is needed. They are off lease but disappearing fast..

 

[Goldfish62]

I think it’s more likely the 456s will return if stock is needed. They are off lease but disappearing fast..

But as you say they are disappearing fast.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The cabs are as wide as any other train. A friend of mine recently completed his training on the Class 720.

They are the same width, yes - but isn't the issue that they are shorter from front to back?

 

[spark001uk]

Isn't this just something to do with the doors lining up on platforms whether it's a 10car or 2x5.? If so why couldn't they just have had a couple of seats less behind the cab?

 

[ABB125]

Isn't this just something to do with the doors lining up on platforms whether it's a 10car or 2x5.? If so why couldn't they just have had a couple of seats less behind the cab?

What heresy is this?!?! Removing seats from the train?! How dare you!