Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[OneTrackMinded]

A friend in Ops at SWR

I'll just have to take your word on that then. Did they mention a timeframe? Might come up in NR's Control Phase 7 plan since Control Phase 6 is coming to an end

 

[wickham]

Regarding the road movement of one car of 701007 - this unit was last reported at Worksop having returned from SWR. Wonder where it is off to ?

 

[Ian Hardy]

There are three all day diagrams with 455s on Reading services now. Together with an additional evening round trip this means that there are four consecutive departures from Waterloo mid evening which are 455s.

I'm told that since the resignalling 8-car 455s can no longer go to Windsor. They also cannot be used to Weybridge as they can't serve P3 at Virginia Water. So there's only Reading left where they can go.

When the 455s are used to Weybridge (or Woking) via Chertsey the SWR Journey Check has "Due to a shortnotice change to the timetable this train will not call at Virginia Water." One of the diagrams last Saturday was a pair of 455 455702 + 455873 which started as the 2S15 0752 London Waterloo to Woking and repeated through the day. The Up services missed out the Virginia Water call.

 

[davews]

I think it was said on here some time ago that there is some sort of clearance issue with 455s at Ascot, possibly roof overhang. On Thursday the train moved incredibly slowly into and out of platform 2. This must also add to delay times.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Why aren't 455s cleared for Virginia Water P3?

 

[Invincible]

There is no problem with 701s as there have been daily test runs at Virginia Water.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why aren't 455s cleared for Virginia Water P3?

Because it's only 6 coaches long.

I think it was said on here some time ago that there is some sort of clearance issue with 455s at Ascot, possibly roof overhang. On Thursday the train moved incredibly slowly into and out of platform 2. This must also add to delay times.

Platform clearance apparently. Long standing speed restriction ever since they were introduced on Reading services around 25 years ago.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Why aren't 455s cleared for Virginia Water P3?

As a 4 car train there is no problem, but they are not ASDO fitted, so 8 car formations are not permitted to call at p3 at Virginia, which (IIRC) could not be extended due to physical constraints. As Goldfish62 pointed out above, the restrictions on where 455's can go (as 8 cars) is now becoming a serious headache for planners and controllers for several reasons on different sections of the Windsor side routes. Had a full complement of other ASDO fitted units (458/5's and of course 450's) still been available, this could have been worked around without the need to send 8 car 455's to places where station stops are now having to be omitted. A perfect storm as the phrase goes, and very sad (tbh) the SW has come to this..

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

they are not ASDO fitted

Ahh I see.

 

[JonathanH]

As a 4 car train there is no problem, but they are not ASDO fitted, so 8 car formations are not permitted to call at p3 at Virginia, which (IIRC) could not be extended due to physical constraints.

Was it was also made shorter due to signalling overlaps at some point? I seem to recall services once stopping much closer to the junction than they do now.

 

[Bigfoot]

Was it was also made shorter due to signalling overlaps at some point? I seem to recall services once stopping much closer to the junction than they do now.

Platform still isn't long enough for 8 coaches even if you stopped right at the far end.

 

[brad465]

I've only been dipping in and out of this saga, so can someone please link me to the post that describes what the current cause of delay into regular service for the whole 701 fleet is (assuming it has already been disclosed and to save someone having to repeat it again if it has already been posted)?

 

[DMckduck97]

I've only been dipping in and out of this saga, so can someone please link me to the post that describes what the current cause of delay into regular service for the whole 701 fleet is (assuming it has already been disclosed and to save someone having to repeat it again if it has already been posted)?

At this point the only thing that seems to be delaying anything is the lack of a training course/plan or anything of the sort being implemented.

Odd trains though, the software in the passenger environment feels like a massive step back when compared with desiros and 707s, the automated PA system and screens are crap!

 

[Goldfish62]

Odd trains though, the software in the passenger environment feels like a massive step back when compared with desiros and 707s, the automated PA system and screens are crap!

And there was I after being on a couple of journeys thinking what a massive step forward it was compared with existing SWR stock! What do you think is retrograde compared with existing trains?

At this point the only thing that seems to be delaying anything is the lack of a training course/plan or anything of the sort being implemented.

Back in January on the first day of the "soft launch" SWR stated that training was starting immediately and all units would be introduced within 12-18 months.

I'm almost half expecting them to now state that they have no plans to introduce them, as per the 458/4s!

 

[DMckduck97]

And there was I after being on a couple of journeys thinking what a massive step forward it was compared with existing SWR stock! What do you think is retrograde compared with existing trains?

The digital monitors are a step up but the robotic and extremely repetitive voice on the system is designed for audio overload which promotes people not actually listening after a while! I guess the scrolling calling pattern aswell was either too expensive or required "modernisation".

Hopefully this basic stuff can be patched although we are definitely stuck with the robot announcer

 

[Meglos]

I've only been dipping in and out of this saga, so can someone please link me to the post that describes what the current cause of delay into regular service for the whole 701 fleet is (assuming it has already been disclosed and to save someone having to repeat it again if it has already been posted)?

You need to train all the train crew within a 'Driver Link' before you can operate them in services, as otherwise you can end up with crew who get rostered onto the type without getting the training (especially with last minute changes due to late workings). My understanding is that conversion training for drivers takes 8-10 weekdays, and you can only train around 10 at a time. If you increase the numbers in training, then you start eating into the number of crews available to operate the working timetable.
The Windsor/Reading link apparently consists of over 100 drivers, so you are looking at around 5 to 6 months before you have completed the training of the link. At this point bring the 701's into squadron service becomes possible on that link.

 

[DelW]

I'm almost half expecting them to now state that they have no plans to introduce them, as per the 458/4s!

Combined with an announcement of a major overhaul programme for the 455s to keep them in service into the 2030s!

 

[Juniper Driver]

I think it was said on here some time ago that there is some sort of clearance issue with 455s at Ascot, possibly roof overhang. On Thursday the train moved incredibly slowly into and out of platform 2. This must also add to delay times.

That restriction of 10 mph has been on for many years.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

At this point the only thing that seems to be delaying anything is the lack of a training course/plan or anything of the sort being implemented.

Odd trains though, the software in the passenger environment feels like a massive step back when compared with desiros and 707s, the automated PA system and screens are crap!

The 707s on SWR have an ai voice read out the announcement. I think anything is better than that.
Plus if you’re comparing them also to desiros, they don’t even have screens, just basic dot matrix

 

[norbitonflyer]

Anyone know which unit is out today? RTT is being coy

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 707s on SWR have an ai voice read out the announcement. I think anything is better than that.
Plus if you’re comparing them also to desiros, they don’t even have screens, just basic dot matrix

Text to speech "Rachel" voice provided by Acapela.

 

[03_179]

Anyone know which unit is out today? RTT is being coy

It's not on our system either

 

[Goldfish62]

Combined with an announcement of a major overhaul programme for the 455s to keep them in service into the 2030s!

Nothing would surprise me.

Even the 484s have now got problems, so of all the new trains promised by SWR back in 2017 they are only managing to run one unit (484) daily. Abysmal! It must be the worst track record for new / re-introduced trains ever!

 

[TEW]

You need to train all the train crew within a 'Driver Link' before you can operate them in services, as otherwise you can end up with crew who get rostered onto the type without getting the training (especially with last minute changes due to late workings). My understanding is that conversion training for drivers takes 8-10 weekdays, and you can only train around 10 at a time. If you increase the numbers in training, then you start eating into the number of crews available to operate the working timetable.
The Windsor/Reading link apparently consists of over 100 drivers, so you are looking at around 5 to 6 months before you have completed the training of the link. At this point bring the 701's into squadron service becomes possible on that link.

You don't need all drivers within a link trained to start squadron service. Practically that would be very difficult as the drivers trained initially would be in need of a refresher before they actually drove one. You need a decent number, and it's more of a challenge to roster and deal with disruption but it's something SWR have had plenty of experience with in the relatively recent past.

 

[Goldfish62]

You don't need all drivers within a link trained to start squadron service. Practically that would be very difficult as the drivers trained initially would be in need of a refresher before they actually drove one. You need a decent number, and it's more of a challenge to roster and deal with disruption but it's something SWR have had plenty of experience with in the relatively recent past.

As indeed I know from a guard friend at GWR. Plenty of IETs were running in service with guards on his link before he was trained.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

You don't need all drivers within a link trained to start squadron service. Practically that would be very difficult as the drivers trained initially would be in need of a refresher before they actually drove one. You need a decent number,

As a very basic example, if there was one x ten car diagram in service five SX days per week, lets say bouncing back and forth between Waterloo & Windsor all day, and assuming those crews trained were rostered solely to 701 duties, with no other (non 701 work) on their duty, plus allowing for possible sick/leave days and company days, I would estimate a bare minimum of eight crews trained to operate same. The overall percentage of crews trained v units in service would gradually even out as more units enter service, making traction knowledge retention easier over time, but the initial weeks and months will be the testing time for roster dept.

 

[Fazaar1889]

701 039 spotted at Guildford. Sorry for the bad quality I was on a bus.

 

[norbitonflyer]

701 039 spotted at Guildford. Sorry for the bad quality I was on a bus.

Appears to be 5Q30 Clapham sidings - Guildford/ 5Q31 Guildford- Wimbledon depot which was at Guildford between 1631 and 1652 according to RTT

It's not on our system either

Now showing as 701043 (again)

 

[Goldfish62]

Late this morning I saw no less than three 701s in motion. Firstly 528 looking very shiny and on manoeuvres in Clapham yard, then shortly afterwards an unidentified unit passed through P5 on 5Q21 - clockwise via Hounslow loop, then later near Feltham I passed the waste of time "soft launch" service heading towards Waterloo.

What exactly is the point of continuing to operate the four unadvertised passenger trips daily Mon-Fri given that no training is taking place? Is it just to maintain the competency of the small number of staff who were initially trained?

 

[LambicHedgehog]

701 039 made a second trip to Guildford this evening as 5Q32 Wimbledon depot - Guildford/5Q33 Guildford - Clapham yard. Pictured here on platform 2: