Class 710 LO

[jayiscupid]

Here's another picture

I think this looks great and so much better than the Crossrail livery.

My only small issue is the orange inside the headlight covers, somebody needs a paint brush and a small tin of paint!

 

[The_Engineer]

Picture of 710.258 on test in France, from RAIL magazine just posted on Facebook....... I assume a front panel has been removed!

 

[swt_passenger]

Picture of 710.258 on test in France, from RAIL magazine just posted on Facebook....... I assume a front panel has been removed!

As seen in post #269, taken en route. Doesn’t seem to be accidental.

 

[Class 317722]

Any ideas as to when these are going to start being delivered to depots?

 

[87015]

All the Gospel Oak trains show as "electric locomotive" in RTT from May, sadly there isn't any sign this is a return of the Fragonset three-day-wonder as a ersatzzug setup for missing 710s though!

 

[swt_passenger]

The user group had reported earlier last month that enough dual voltage units to operate
Gospel Oak <> Barking are stored at Derby:

On 28 February, Bombardier had completed 16 Class 710 4-car units, all 14 of the original order for dual voltage units for Barking - Gospel Oak and Euston - Watford lines and the first two of 31 AC only units for Cheshunt (via Seven Sisters)/Chingford/Enfield Town services. Apart from the two test units, all these are stored at Bombardier's Derby works. It is now very unlikely that any Class 710 units will be in passenger service in time for the start of the UK summer timetable on 20 May.
http://www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/latest_news.htm

This doesn’t seem to have been mentioned here yet...

 

[MrPIC]

Last I heard was that there was a software issue preventing them from being delivered to the TOC, apparently 345's used a tarted up Electrostar TCMS, and the London Overground and GA Aventras will have a brand new software, which is not playing ball!

 

[swt_passenger]

Last I heard was that there was a software issue preventing them from being delivered to the TOC, apparently 345's used a tarted up Electrostar TCMS, and the London Overground and GA Aventras will have a brand new software, which is not playing ball!

That figures. But at least if they are all sitting waiting, once they know the solution the software could be fixed and re-loaded pretty quickly...

 

[Domh245]

the software could be fixed and re-loaded pretty quickly...

But validating it and getting it approved for use might (will) take ages!

 

[hwl]

But validating it and getting it approved for use might (will) take ages!

And then you need to clock up the fault free running on all those units after the software has been installed.

 

[plcd1]

The line user group (BGORUG) have published an update on the supply of rolling stock, the electrification works and impact on the route's timetable. I quote it all below for information. Credit to the user group for the information.

ELECTRIFICATION PROJECT APPROACING COMPLETION
Bridge 14 at Crouch Hill station was successfully raised by 30cms over the weekend of 7 & 8 April. This was the last major job that was part of the Network Rail electrification project. There remain a number of 'snagging jobs' to carry out, so the overhead wires are now expected to become available for electric trains to use by late August. A list of the known forthcoming line closures for engineering works appears below.

NEW TRAINS DELAYED
The introduction of the new 4-car electric trains is running about four months late. This is due to delays both in starting and carrying out 'type testing' to gain authorisation to operate on Network Rail infrastructure. Until the tests can be successfully completed, the new trains cannot run. Type testing is taking place with 710256 at Network Rail's Asfordby test centre in Leicestershire while 710258 is at the CEF test centre at Valenciennes, near Lille, in France for braking and wheel slip/slide protection tests. On 28 February, Bombardier had completed 16 Class 710 4-car units, all 14 of the original order for dual voltage units for Barking - Gospel Oak and Euston - Watford lines and the first two of 31 AC only units for Cheshunt (via Seven Sisters)/Chingford/Enfield Town services. Apart from the two units being tested, all these are stored at Bombardier's Derby works. It is now very unlikely that any Class 710 units will be in passenger service before September, five months later than planned.

London Overground has published the new 20 May 2018 timetables for all its lines except for Barking - Gospel Oak. The 20 May national timetable had shown all of the additional Monday - Friday only peak trains withdrawn apart from the 06:06 Barking - Gospel Oak. BGORUG appealed to Transport for London to reinstate these trains, at least until the new electric units are all in service and these trains have now been reinstated, with the morning Willesden Junction train now starting from Barking, instead of Woodrange Park. BGORUG are seeking meetings with both Network Rail and Transport for London for updates on the commissioning of the overhead wires and the new trains respectively. The eight 2-car Bombardier diesel trains that currently operate Barking - Gospel Oak services will operate the Coventry - Nuneaton service from the start of the UK winter timetable in December.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

So what will work GOBLIN from tomorrow, the 172s are due into works for toilet fitting and tarting up prior to entering service with WMR in December on more than the Nuneaton jobs?

 

[swt_passenger]

The line user group (BGORUG) have published an update on the supply of rolling stock, the electrification works and impact on the route's timetable. I quote it all below for information. Credit to the user group for the information.

I posted the same article a few posts back, on 1st May, it doesn’t appear to have changed.

 

[Domh245]

Of course we are assuming that the original plan for them to go to WMR is being stuck to. It is entirely possible that LO are going to be paying considerably above the going rate to hold onto them for a while, and WMR are going to have to wait - I think you'd have a hard time arguing that taking them off the GOBLIN to serve the West Midlands without the 710s in place will be the least disruptive option to passengers.

 

[plcd1]

I posted the same article a few posts back, on 1st May, it doesn’t appear to have changed.

Err I think it has given it refers to the timetable having to be changed at the last minute and trains not being in service until September at the earliest. I posted on the basis that the news item was dated 15th May not 1st May. Any repetition was unintentional.

 

[swt_passenger]

Err I think it has given it refers to the timetable having to be changed at the last minute and trains not being in service until September at the earliest. I posted on the basis that the news item was dated 15th May not 1st May. Any repetition was unintentional.

No problem. I suppose they’ve left the article on the same URL I used, so I thought it hadn’t changed at all...

 

[Class 466]

So what will work GOBLIN from tomorrow, the 172s are due into works for toilet fitting and tarting up prior to entering service with WMR in December on more than the Nuneaton jobs?

172s will carry on for now. Expect some drops in the service as a few disappear off to WMR.

 

[AverageTD]

I'm trying to use the 172s as much as possible now. As much as I like Aventras I will be sad to see them go. I rarely use the Uckfield line or Chiltern but there's still a chance of a 165. I missed the 313s when the 378s came even though they are 10x better

 

[Mikey C]

I'm trying to use the 172s as much as possible now. As much as I like Aventras I will be sad to see them go. I rarely use the Uckfield line or Chiltern and even the there's a chance of a 165. I missed the 313s when the 378s came even though they are 10x better

The 172s (for an inner London train) are indeed luxurious. If you can get a seat, it's a far pleasanter way to travel than the 378s!

 

[D365]

I believe the 172s were specced more conventionally as Angel Trains had realised their use on LO might only be short term.

 

[plcd1]

172s will carry on for now. Expect some drops in the service as a few disappear off to WMR.

What? The current GOBLIN peak service requires all the Cl172 units to be in service. TfL / Arriva have had to reinstate the old timetable - not what is published on their website - because the service would collapse / people would be waiting an hour - without those extra peak trains. By all means let the 172s go when the 710s are here and have achieved their fault free mileage accumulation. There will no doubt still be some breakdowns etc with them but that has to be worked through. However until the 710s do arrive then the 172s have to stay.

 

[JamesT]

What? The current GOBLIN peak service requires all the Cl172 units to be in service. TfL / Arriva have had to reinstate the old timetable - not what is published on their website - because the service would collapse / people would be waiting an hour - without those extra peak trains. By all means let the 172s go when the 710s are here and have achieved their fault free mileage accumulation. There will no doubt still be some breakdowns etc with them but that has to be worked through. However until the 710s do arrive then the 172s have to stay.

That assumes that TfL have the choice. It's been seen with various other types of stock that if your lease is up, you have to hand them back. If WMR have the lease next then it's up to them if they want to sub-lease them back to TfL. Though presumably WMR have built their own plans upon having access to these trains.

 

[Class 466]

What? The current GOBLIN peak service requires all the Cl172 units to be in service. TfL / Arriva have had to reinstate the old timetable - not what is published on their website - because the service would collapse / people would be waiting an hour - without those extra peak trains. By all means let the 172s go when the 710s are here and have achieved their fault free mileage accumulation. There will no doubt still be some breakdowns etc with them but that has to be worked through. However until the 710s do arrive then the 172s have to stay.

Whilst this is all well and good, the railway doesn’t work like that. 172s will be running to 710 timings in the new timetable (which is different to the Dec 17 timetable)

 

[greatkingrat]

Whilst this is all well and good, the railway doesn’t work like that. 172s will be running to 710 timings in the new timetable (which is different to the Dec 17 timetable)

While individual trains may have been retimed, there is no change in the end to end running times, so it makes no difference whether it is nominally timed for a 710 or not.

 

[Class 170101]

The additionals requiring the 8th train are being carried out Special Traffic by the looks of it rather than being in the permanent timetable.

 

[plcd1]

That assumes that TfL have the choice. It's been seen with various other types of stock that if your lease is up, you have to hand them back. If WMR have the lease next then it's up to them if they want to sub-lease them back to TfL. Though presumably WMR have built their own plans upon having access to these trains.

I understand the point you make but there would be an absolute political s**tstorm if trains were pulled off that line with no replacement available. "Big boys" politics would very quickly get in the way of whatever leasing and modification deal has been signed with WMR. The imperative is clearly on Bombardier to get their new trains signed off and running so we don't head towards another crisis on the GOBLIN route. Given the 710s are now almost 6 months late without a wheel being turned in approved running on UK metals I imagine there is a very considerable commercial dispute between TfL and Bombardier now brewing.

 

[Mikey C]

Surely the answer, if there is a major delay in the 710s, and the 172s are due to go elsewhere, is to get alternative electric stock in (315s, 319s or whatever)

Yes there's a cost in training drivers (which maybe can be charged to Bombardier?), but the alternative of just removing 172s without any replacement is nonsense.

 

[332 > 444]

That was suggested by the line's user group and TfL said the same line about training. The line has been wired up since mid Jan, we could've had plenty of EMU stopgap measures for the time being.

On another note, they re-instated the peak extras although I'm not sure if starting the 7:59 Woodgrange Park to Willesden Junction from Barking is a good idea, for that reason it was lightly loaded....

 

[Railperf]

slightly OT, It is a shame that there do not seem any plans to build a second platform at Gospel Oak. This is because the 710's could potentially run end to end times quicker then the diesels - which themselves are not exactly taxed on this run. Currently the lack of a spare platform at Gospel Oak means the westbound service always ends up sitting outside Gospel Oak waiting for the eastbound service to vacate it! If there were a second platform, the westbound could run straight into it. Allowing the westbound service to depart a little later. There also seems to be (signalling excepted ) no reason why the 30mph section between South Tottenham and Upper Holloway cannot be upgraded to 45mph like most of the eastern section. And i still don't see why a short section of 20mph speed limit applies over a viaduct around the lea valley reservoirs - which has completely been rebuilt and new track laid!

 

[jeromeroberts]

slightly OT, It is a shame that there do not seem any plans to build a second platform at Gospel Oak. This is because the 710's could potentially run end to end times quicker then the diesels - which themselves are not exactly taxed on this run. Currently the lack of a spare platform at Gospel Oak means the westbound service always ends up sitting outside Gospel Oak waiting for the eastbound service to vacate it! If there were a second platform, the westbound could run straight into it. Allowing the westbound service to depart a little later. There also seems to be (signalling excepted ) no reason why the 30mph section between South Tottenham and Upper Holloway cannot be upgraded to 45mph like most of the eastern section. And i still don't see why a short section of 20mph speed limit applies over a viaduct around the lea valley reservoirs - which has completely been rebuilt and new track laid!

To build any form of new infrastructure at Gospel Oak will encroach on the Hampstead Heath park and with the powerful Highgate nimbys living in the vicinity you have a better chance of hell freezing over